Author Topic: B&A International Classic - not NPC approved (Read 56940 times)

Moosejay · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2008, 02:12:34 PM »

Quote from: Matt C on March 21, 2008, 01:49:46 PM

You'd be amazed at what would go on if people as proactive as Tim weren't around.

Seriously, I know someone who was convicted in the lower level courts for marijuana dust in a tin during the time in which under one ounce of marijuana was not even a criminal offense. Judges (although more the police) routinely do illegal things hoping no one will call them on it. Sometimes cases need to go to the supreme court before they get overturned. Take for example Larry Flynt and all of his first amendment fights. None of his issues should ever even have made it into court to begin with, let alone need to be fought at the highest levels.

If Tim had not brought this up in this thread, who knows what would have become of this situation.

Correct. Much of the time, people just assume the right thing will happen.

War-Horse · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2008, 02:29:58 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on March 21, 2008, 02:09:30 PM

would this be a good time to remind people that there is a donation button at musclememory.com, and that a few years ago hosting all my websites at an ISP in the UK seemed like a good idea. at today's exchange rate, not so much.

Hahaha nice move...

timfogarty · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:10:00 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on March 21, 2008, 11:13:24 AM

it is not clearly a professional event. there are no pro contracts. if winning prize money is what makes you a professional, then most IFBB pros are not professional. but people in the WNBF and Musclemania have won prize money while also competing as an amateur in the NPC.

The following people have all competed as a pro in another organization, and then competed in the NPC

Stan McQuay, Mark Alvisi, Mike D'Angelo, Tito Raymond, Richard (Tricky) Jackson, Shiloe Steinmetz, Ken Yasuda, Jason Powell, Nigel Ifill, Rico Elbaz, Charles Anderson, Wil Usher, Philip Ricardo, Brian Glynn, Dave Goodin, Dietrich Horsey, Chris Thomas, Greg Pringle, Tyrone Wright,

bump. any response Chick ?

G o a t b o y · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:11:42 PM »

http://www.freeforum101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1724&sid=224a94db4540e23037be640cceb31d17&mforum=ibfasport

Quote

I have just received a reply from Ben, the Show Organizer, about IFBB attack:

We feel honored to be such a big deal for the IFBB.Anyway,we do not care about all this and we will have a lot of IFBB Pros at our show.I talked already to a lot of them.It all started when the NPC (Amateur IFBB)asked us last September to sanction our show and we said"no" because we do not want their judges screwing up our competition.So now we are somehow at war.Our Sponsors and Athletes got blackmailed and Poster got stolen in the middle of the night from the Gyms in Las Vegas.We put them all back.This month (May) we are also in the Magazine (MuscleMag) and they really get scared.The IFBB is just afraid that we will be very successful and that they have to give something to their Athletes now.Anyway we do not care about the politics here because we care about the Athletes.Check out our website next week for more good news for the Athletes.We will let the Athletes choose to either take the new car home or get a $10000 sponsorship contract in cash the same night.We also looking for a Bikini or Figure Girl to have their own TV show in Los Angeles.This is not depending on placing,only on looks and personality.

Chick · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:15:23 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on March 21, 2008, 07:10:00 PM

bump. any response Chick ?

Sure....first of all, no one said anything about MAKING money as a professional, merely COMPETING for it is enough for one to demed a "professional" by amateur laws....

Secondly, no one sai competitors couldn't COMPETE in other amateur federations...they can, and do often.

I don't know all the details of any of the competitors you listed...they could have been suspended from the NPC before returning to compete there, they also may not have been competing for anything but a trophy in a different federation, which is not a problem...

Competing for Cars and cash prizes in a different federation is CLEARLY a problem for any amateur that plans on competing in the NPC in the future, and it could jeopardize their amateur atatus.

G o a t b o y · « **Reply #30 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:16:33 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on March 21, 2008, 11:13:24 AM

it is not clearly a professional event. there are no pro contracts. if winning prize money is what makes you a professional, then most IFBB pros are not professional. but people in the WNBF and Musclemania have won prize money while also competing as an amateur in the NPC.

The following people have all competed as a pro in another organization, and then competed in the NPC

Stan McQuay, Mark Alvisi, Mike D'Angelo, Tito Raymond, Richard (Tricky) Jackson, Shiloe Steinmetz, Ken Yasuda, Jason Powell, Nigel Ifill, Rico Elbaz, Charles Anderson, Wil Usher, Philip Ricardo, Brian Glynn, Dave Goodin, Dietrich Horsey, Chris Thomas, Greg Pringle, Tyrone Wright,

By Bob's logic, the winner of the Mr. Getbig is a "pro", because he got $2k. Hell, all the Mr Getbig entrants got paid something. I guess JaeJonna and DaddyWaddy are now Pros!

Chick · « **Reply #31 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:31:13 PM »

Quote from: G o a t b o y on March 21, 2008, 07:16:33 PM

By Bob's logic, the winner of the Mr. Getbig is a "pro", because he got $2k. Hell, all the Mr Getbig entrants got paid something. I guess JaeJonna and DaddyWaddy are now Pros!

I already said..the Mr. Getbig doesn't count as it obviuosly wasnt a bb contest...!

timfogarty · « **Reply #32 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:50:49 PM »

Quote from: Chick on March 21, 2008, 07:15:23 PM

I don't know all the details of any of the competitors you listed...they could have been suspended from the NPC before returning to compete there, they also may not have been competing for anything but a trophy in a different federation, which is not a problem...

Shiloe Steinmetz

2003 - Pro Galaxy - NGA, 4th
2003 - Natural Olympus - NGA, Professional Overall Winner
2004 - Pro Natural American - WNBF, 6th
2004 - Junior Nationals - NPC, Light-HeavyWeight, 12th
2004 - North American Championships - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 12th
...
2007 - Junior Nationals - NPC, HeavyWeight, 8th
2007 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, HeavyWeight, 1st
2007 - World Amateur Championships - IFBB, Super-HeavyWeight, 15th

clearly no suspension or time between being a pro and competing in the NPC there

Richard Tricky Jackson

1998 - North American Championships - IFBB, LightWeight, 1st
1998 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, LightWeight, 1st
1999 - Musclemania, Professional, 7th
1999 - Nationals - NPC, LightWeight, 2nd
1999 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, MiddleWeight, 3rd
2000 - Musclemania, WelterWeight, 1st
2000 - Nationals - NPC, LightWeight, 2nd
2000 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, MiddleWeight, 3rd

again, clearly no suspension

Dave Goodin

2000 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 1st
2001 - Pro Natural International - WNBF, Overall Winner
2002 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 3rd
2003 - Pro Natural Masters - WNBF, Winner
2003 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 3rd
2004 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 4th
2005 - Pro Natural Masters - WNBF, Winner
2005 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 2nd
2006 - Pro Classic - IFPA, 2nd
2006 - Pro Natural US Cup - WNBF, LightWeight, 1st
2006 - Pro Natural Universe - WNBF, LightWeight, 1st
2007 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, WelterWeight, 2nd

seven years competing as a pro, then entering Team Universe

Quote

Competing for Cars and cash prizes in a different federation is CLEARLY a problem for any amateur that plans on competing in the NPC in the future, and it could jeopardize their amateur atatus.

what about the NPC Hawaii event that gave the winners prizes?

240 is Back · « **Reply #33 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:51:21 PM »

Quote from: Chick on March 21, 2008, 07:31:13 PM

I already said..the Mr. Getbig doesn't count as it obviuosly wasnt a bb contest...!

Right. Real bodybuilding contests have much smaller audiences and paychecks, and there was no G4P element to the mr Getbig.

Chick · « **Reply #34 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:55:42 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on March 21, 2008, 07:50:49 PM

Shiloe Steinmetz

2003 - Pro Galaxy - NGA, 4th
2003 - Natural Olympus - NGA, Professional Overall Winner
2004 - Pro Natural American - WNBF, 6th
2004 - Junior Nationals - NPC, Light-HeavyWeight, 12th
2004 - North American Championships - IFBB, HeavyWeight, 12th
...
2007 - Junior Nationals - NPC, HeavyWeight, 8th
2007 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, HeavyWeight, 1st
2007 - World Amateur Championships - IFBB, Super-HeavyWeight, 15th

clearly no suspension or time between being a pro and competing in the NPC there

Richard Tricky Jackson

1998 - North American Championships - IFBB, LightWeight, 1st
1998 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, LightWeight, 1st
1999 - Musclemania, Professional, 7th
1999 - Nationals - NPC, LightWeight, 2nd
1999 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, MiddleWeight, 3rd
2000 - Musclemania, WelterWeight, 1st
2000 - Nationals - NPC, LightWeight, 2nd
2000 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, MiddleWeight, 3rd

again, clearly no suspension

Dave Goodin

2000 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 1st
2001 - Pro Natural International - WNBF, Overall Winner
2002 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 3rd
2003 - Pro Natural Masters - WNBF, Winner
2003 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 3rd
2004 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 4th
2005 - Pro Natural Masters - WNBF, Winner
2005 - Pro Natural World - WNBF, LightWeight, 2nd
2006 - Pro Classic - IFPA, 2nd
2006 - Pro Natural US Cup - WNBF, LightWeight, 1st
2006 - Pro Natural Universe - WNBF, LightWeight, 1st
2007 - Team Universe Championships - NPC, WelterWeight, 2nd

seven years competing as a pro, then entering Team Universe

what about the NPC Hawaii event that gave the winners prizes?

Once again, you're asking for me to comment on people I've never heard of (except for Tricky) and details I have no knowledge of....you're also forgetting one simple detail....someone would have to know who someone is, for there to be any possible issue.

G o a t b o y · « **Reply #35 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:03:16 PM »

Quote from: Chick on March 21, 2008, 07:31:13 PM

I already said..the Mr. Getbig doesn't count as it obviuosly wasnt a bb contest...!

Sarcastic comments about the quality of the physiques in the Mr. Getbig aside, it absolutely was a bodybuilding contest, the winner of which took home twice as much money as the 7th - 15th place finishers in the Arnold Classic!

Chick · « **Reply #36 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:05:08 PM »

Quote from: G o a t b o y on March 21, 2008, 08:03:16 PM

Sarcastic comments about the quality of the physiques in the Mr. Getbig aside, it absolutely was a bodybuilding contest, the winner of which took home twice as much money as the 7th - 15th place finishers in the Arnold Classic!

it was a picture contest....

240 is Back · « **Reply #37 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:09:01 PM »

Quote from: Chick on March 21, 2008, 08:05:08 PM

it was a picture contest....

...with more angles, coverage, prize money, attendance, and competitors than the New Zealand Pro

G o a t b o y · « **Reply #38 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:09:50 PM »

Quote from: Chick on March 21, 2008, 08:05:08 PM

it was a picture contest....

Judging the physiques by bodybuilding standards, posed in bodybuilding attire, hitting mandatory bodybuilding shots, using bodybuilding scoring. Most of the judges were NPC or IFBB competitors. The fact that it was held in a virtual enviornment doesn't change what it was. You're splitting hairs.

JohnnyVegas · « **Reply #39 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:10:38 PM »

Quote from: sgt. d on March 21, 2008, 01:54:32 PM

tim is a very active guy

I heard Sean Rey was very active with Sasha???

timfogarty · « **Reply #40 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:12:33 PM »

Quote from: Chick on March 21, 2008, 07:55:42 PM

Once again, you're asking for me to comment on people I've never heard of (except for Tricky) and details I have no knowledge of....you're also forgetting one simple detail....someone would have to know who someone is, for there to be any possible issue.

read the list again, it includes Stan McQuay, Mark Alvisi, Mike D'Angelo, Tito Raymond. The NPC does not care about amateur status.

But let's look at it from the other angle. Name one person who has been kicked out of the NPC for competing as a pro in another league?

what you're really saying is that the NPC (threatens to) enforce the rules when it suits them

JohnnyVegas · « **Reply #41 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:16:16 PM »

Quote from: G o a t b o y on March 21, 2008, 08:03:16 PM

Sarcastic comments about the quality of the physiques in the Mr. Getbig aside, it absolutely was a bodybuilding contest, the winner of which took home twice as much money as the 7th - 15th place finishers in the Arnold Classic!

Chick.....Goatboy has a valid point....

Quote from: 240 is Back on March 21, 2008, 08:09:01 PM

...with more angles, coverage, prize money, attendance, and competitors than the New Zealand Pro

240 gives validity to Goatboy's assertion ... Chick?

Quote from: timfogarty on March 21, 2008, 08:12:33 PM

read the list again, it includes Stan McQuay, Mark Alvisi, Mike D'Angelo, Tito Raymond. The NPC does not care about amateur status.

But let's look at it from the other angle. Name one person who has been kicked out of the NPC for competing as a pro in another league?

what you're really saying is that the NPC (threatens to) enforce the rules when it suits them

Chick, I think that is point, match and GAME for Tim!

What say you Chick? You cannot say you do not know who Stan McQuay is.

sgt. d · « **Reply #42 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:16:51 PM »

Quote from: JohnnyVegas on March 21, 2008, 08:10:38 PM

I heard Sean Rey was very active with Sasha???

My cock is very active with your sisters mouth

G o a t b o y · « **Reply #43 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:17:16 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on March 21, 2008, 08:12:33 PM

read the list again, it includes Stan McQuay, Mark Alvisi, Mike D'Angelo, Tito Raymond. The NPC does not care about amateur status.

But let's look at it from the other angle. Name one person who has been kicked out of the NPC for competing as a pro in another league?

what you're really saying is that the NPC (threatens to) enforce the rules when it suits them

Well, if someone did get blackballed, they could always go back to the court that issued the 1982 injunction and have a field day. The fact that others were paid money and not tossed would be enough. Bob's "rules vs code of conduct" argument wouldn't work on this one.

JohnnyVegas · « **Reply #44 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:17:59 PM »

Quote from: sgt. d on March 21, 2008, 08:16:51 PM

My cock is very active with ~~your sisters~~ Sasha's anus/mouth

There, fixed.

240 is Back · « **Reply #45 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:18:16 PM »

Chick is smart enough not to defend selective enforcement. My money is on him logging off right now as to avoid admitting that some rules don't get enforced.

Chick · « **Reply #46 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:19:07 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on March 21, 2008, 08:12:33 PM

read the list again, it includes Stan McQuay, Mark Alvisi, Mike D'Angelo, Tito Raymond. The NPC does not care about amateur status.

But let's look at it from the other angle. Name one person who has been kicked out of the NPC for competing as a pro in another league?

what you're really saying is that the NPC (threatens to) enforce the rules when it suits them

I couldnt give you a list...perhaps there have been people that have been suspended for a time FROM competing in the NPC.....evere consider they enforce the rules when they're AWARE of violations? There is no task force looking for amateurs competing as pro's in other federations

JohnnyVegas · « **Reply #47 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:22:11 PM »

Quote from: G o a t b o y on March 21, 2008, 08:17:16 PM

Well, if someone did get blackballed, they could always go back to the court that issued the 1982 injunction and have a field day. The fact that others were paid money and not tossed would be enough. Bob's "rules vs code of conduct" argument wouldn't work on this one.

Yes, 100% on the money.

Tim took Chick to the wood shed on this one.

If someone got blackballed by the NPC they could take the NPC to the wood shed.

I would like to see an IFBB anti trust case....... similar to the AAU/NPC case.

I have never looked into it but there is now way the IFBB's rule about not competing in pro shows outside the IFBB would hold up in court.

Since no Pro BBers have any money, there is no one to test the case in court. Lee Priest would be a good test case.

Chick · « **Reply #48 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:27:01 PM »

Quote from: JohnnyVegas on March 21, 2008, 08:22:11 PM

Yes, 100% on the money.

Tim took Chick to the wood shed on this one.

If someone got blackballed by the NPC they could take the NPC to the wood shed.

I would like to see an IFBB anti trust case....... similar to the AAU/NPC case.

I have never looked into it but there is now way the IFBB's rule about not competing in pro shows outside the IFBB would hold up in court.

Since no Pro BBers have any money, there is no one to test the case in court. Lee Priest would be a good test case.

once again...no one is arguing that an amateur cannot compete in more than one amateur org....they can.

As for the IFBB..weve been over this 1,000 times. You sign a contract as a pro...

JohnnyVegas · « **Reply #49 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:33:55 PM »

Quote from: Chick on March 21, 2008, 08:27:01 PM

once again...no one is arguing that an amateur cannot compete in more than one amateur org....they can.

As for the IFBB..weve been over this 1,000 times. You sign a contract as a pro...

Chick, I have seen some of the IFBB contracts, you sign them for individual shows.

I can tell you straight up that the IFBB CANNOT ban people from doing other shows, like the Lee Priest fiasco.

Now you can say the IFBB can ban Pro's all day long for that, but the ONLY reason you can say that and get away with it here on Getbig is because no Pro has ever taken the IFBB to court.

There is case law up the wazoo on employment contracts and a person is free to engage in their trade (yes Pro BBing is a trade) with anyone, with very FEW and very LIMITED exceptions. And I do mean very few and very limited exceptions (these exceptions would not apply to the IFBB and Pro BBing).

Author Topic: B&A International Classic - not NPC approved (Read 56940 times)

Moosejay

JohnnyVegas

JohnnyVegas

JohnnyVegas

JohnnyVegas

JohnnyVegas