Author Topic: B&A International Classic - not NPC approved  (Read 63160 times)

timfogarty

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #250 on: March 25, 2008, 11:21:00 AM »
I am still WATING for Disgusted to name up a promoter making a living from NPC shows!!  ::)

well, I'm not Disgusted, but let's define "a living"  as $60k a year.   I think Jon Lindsey qualifies.  How about Pam Betz, with both the Nationals and Junior Nationals.

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #251 on: March 25, 2008, 11:23:00 AM »
Most promoters in the NPC do have "another day job" and promote for their enjoyment of bodybuilding and a few extra $$. Jon Lindsay is in a hot spot for bodybuilding being in Southern Cal.
He does an avg of 10-12 shows per year. I am going to be conservative and say he makes over a 30k profit on just the USA. After his sanction fee to the NPC, judges fees , awards and theatre rental, I would say based on a typical turn out he may have aprox 400-500 of the TOTAL night show ticket sales at an avg of 75 each.The rest of ticket sales , sponsers and entry fees help pay the show overhead.
If he makes an avg of 3 k profit avg for the next 11 shows he gets over 30k for that. His net profit is at least 60k a year minimum. I suspect he may  make more on good years???
Howard
I am being conservative here in my estimate and

Howie, I'd say that's a very fair assessment. I have promoted with Mike Katz for 10 years, so I have a bit of experience here.

HowieW

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #252 on: March 25, 2008, 11:28:06 AM »
Howie, I'd say that's a very fair assessment. I have promoted with Mike Katz for 10 years, so I have a bit of experience here.
I did promote a few shows myself , so I have a pretty good idea as well.
The USA has been boomin lately so he may be making a good deal more, like 40k or above for the USA in recent yrs.   Howard
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timfogarty

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #253 on: March 25, 2008, 11:31:06 AM »
If, however, only 10 current NPC members compete, then it'll be much easier for the NPC to say "You're all suspended from NPC competition until August 2009" and I don't think you'd see too many complaints about that. 

but all it would take is one to threaten to sue them and they'd back down

maybe we should start a legal defense fund now

Moosejay

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #254 on: March 25, 2008, 11:33:10 AM »
I did promote a few shows myself , so I have a pretty good idea as well.
The USA has been boomin lately so he may be making a good deal more, like 40k or above for the USA in recent yrs.   Howard

Yes, agreed on the USA....very large shows like that can generate substantial revenues.

Disgusted

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #255 on: March 25, 2008, 12:04:29 PM »
Like I said before, if they ban a few top guys they only hurt themselves and the promotors. If they ban a bunch of nobodies then it doesn't matter. Either way losing situation. I really don't think anything will become of all this anyway.

JohnnyVegas

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #256 on: March 25, 2008, 12:14:04 PM »
Exactly.  People don't quit working after leaving the military. 

Mr. Lindsay has also told me in conversation that contest promotion is his primary source of income. 

Johnny Vegas - why do you think he would lie about such a thing?  What would be his motivation? 

Jon Lindsey says A LOT of things, much of it total BS. He does it to puff himself up trying to be a "player" in the BBing world.

Now, was Jon lying, and why would he lie?????

First, I know for a fact he did not make any money off of the shows when he started out in San Diego.

Second, I am sure Jon would say things like contest promotion is his "main source of income" just to puff up his reputation, making himself look like some super contest promoter. He used to do similar things when he was in San Diego all the time.

Just my opinion, based on facts and knowing the guy (and his bullshit) for years.

Now, having said that, Jon puts on a great show and is one of the best promoters out there-but don't confuse running a good show with making a living from running a good show  ;D

JohnnyVegas

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #257 on: March 25, 2008, 12:19:40 PM »
well, I'm not Disgusted, but let's define "a living"  as $60k a year.   I think Jon Lindsey qualifies.  How about Pam Betz, with both the Nationals and Junior Nationals.

Agreed on $60K is making a living.....the question is does ANYONE make that from promoting NPC shows..I say NO, and that includes Lindsey.

There is NO WAY Lindsey is "averaging" $3K in profit off of shows like the Contra Costa (which is a co promotion), Border States and all the other local shows. In fact I would bet that the majority of them only break even.

Asd for the USA, don't know how much money is involved, and neither does anyone else here. The only ones who know what the profit is in that show are Jon and Manion. I don't think Jon promotes that show every year, but I may be wrong on that.

JohnnyVegas

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #258 on: March 25, 2008, 12:23:29 PM »
I did promote a few shows myself , so I have a pretty good idea as well.
The USA has been boomin lately so he may be making a good deal more, like 40k or above for the USA in recent yrs.   Howard


The USA and Nationals are the 2 BIG shows in the NPC.  Is it possible a $40K profit is made-sure..........is it probable-NO.

I stand by my statement that the ONLY person making BIG BUCKS with the NPC are Manion.

timfogarty

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #259 on: March 25, 2008, 12:31:00 PM »
First, I know for a fact he did not make any money off of the shows when he started out in San Diego.

no one makes money when they're first starting out.  but now he promotes 15 shows a year, including the USA, the California, and the IFBB California Pro Figure.

but we've lost track of why this was brought up.   The AAU was a non profit athletic organization, with chairmen elected every couple of years.   Shows were not meant to be money making ventures.  You would host a show for a year or two, then it would rotate to someone else.  The major shows would be in a different city every year, hosted by different promoters.

In the NPC, Lindsey will be the promoter of the USAs in Vegas until he retires or drops dead.  Betz will have the Nationals and the Jr Nationals until she gives them up.   Manion is president of the NPC for life.    When you have a position for life, you tend to make decisions based on what's in your best financial interest, not what's best for the athletes.

What's in the best interest of athletes is to have more choices, more shows, more opportunities.  What's in the best financial interest of Manion and Lindsey is to discourage competition by preventing B&A from getting good athletes.

Disgusted

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #260 on: March 25, 2008, 12:34:21 PM »
Question for anyone except brain dead people (aka Jonny fellatio). Assuming the NPC can suspend someone how does that hurt the athete?

timfogarty

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #261 on: March 25, 2008, 12:39:08 PM »
Question for anyone except brain dead people (aka Jonny fellatio). Assuming the NPC can suspend someone how does that hurt the athlete?

if the athlete really wants to compete he can always enter contests in Musclemania, NABBA, or other orgs.  If the goal is to become an IFBB pro, then getting on the NPC's shit list is probably not a good career move.  Even if they don't get suspended, you'd have to worry about being judged down.  well, unless judges don't allow politics to affect their scoring.

JohnnyVegas

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #262 on: March 25, 2008, 12:40:01 PM »

no one makes money when they're first starting out.  but now he promotes 15 shows a year, including the USA, the California, and the IFBB California Pro Figure.


Lindsay Co Promotes the majority of those 15 shows (if he does have 15) with others, he does very few on his own, (like the Border States).

Many of those shows make little if ANY money.

The Cal is a perfect example. It is rotated between Nor Cal, LA and San Diego, and it never sells out, it usually has less people attending than most local shows. The Cal is not a money maker.

The fact is the majority of the PRO BBers makes less than $40K per year......BBing is not a main stream sport, and it does not have main stream $$ in it.

Disgusted

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #263 on: March 25, 2008, 01:11:36 PM »
if the athlete really wants to compete he can always enter contests in Musclemania, NABBA, or other orgs.  If the goal is to become an IFBB pro, then getting on the NPC's shit list is probably not a good career move.  Even if they don't get suspended, you'd have to worry about being judged down.  well, unless judges don't allow politics to affect their scoring.

This is true. I don't think that anyone who seriously has a chance to get a pro card is going to enter this show, but how many people does that equate too? Maybe the top 3 in each class? Hard to make a guess though. You are right abou one thing, once you get on the shit list you are done!

timfogarty

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #264 on: March 25, 2008, 01:53:50 PM »
Lindsay Co Promotes the majority of those 15 shows (if he does have 15)
...
The Cal is a perfect example. It is rotated between Nor Cal, LA and San Diego, and it never sells out, it usually has less people attending than most local shows. The Cal is not a money maker.

you know, on the internet, such things are easily verified.  His website is http://www.lindsayproductions.com.  The Cal has been at the Veteran's Memorial Auditorium in Culver city as long as I remember. (see http://www.graphicmuscle.net/Lindsay/event.aspx?event=California+State, which lists it back to 2002).  The Cal is a huge show and I'm sure a big money maker for Lindsey.

Vince B

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #265 on: March 25, 2008, 03:08:26 PM »
This is true. I don't think that anyone who seriously has a chance to get a pro card is going to enter this show, but how many people does that equate too? Maybe the top 3 in each class? Hard to make a guess though. You are right abou one thing, once you get on the shit list you are done!

This is how the IFBB works. Simple, effective, deadly.

Vince B

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #266 on: March 25, 2008, 04:21:12 PM »
Yeah...I've heard that about you, willing to take on all men.

What some IFBB reps will stoop to. Humour or attempted putdown, Bob? Any way it is beneath contempt for a man in your official position.

Why would you use that lame hand, Bob? Running out of wit?

You've heard nothing whatever about me because there is nothing to hear. I feel compelled to reply to your comment because not doing so might give some the impression you were telling the truth.

Chick

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #267 on: March 25, 2008, 06:04:32 PM »
Lindsay Co Promotes the majority of those 15 shows (if he does have 15) with others, he does very few on his own, (like the Border States).

Many of those shows make little if ANY money.

The Cal is a perfect example. It is rotated between Nor Cal, LA and San Diego, and it never sells out, it usually has less people attending than most local shows. The Cal is not a money maker.

The fact is the majority of the PRO BBers makes less than $40K per year......BBing is not a main stream sport, and it does not have main stream $$ in it.

Goddam bro...you're as clueless as they come.

Butts in seats is a great bonus, but the profit is in the sponsorships, not the gate...Jon has made money before the door even opens.

Jon has 2 shows that make little if any money. 2 out of the 14 he puts on....he makes ore on the USA than you probably make in the year....


Disgusted

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #268 on: March 25, 2008, 06:18:54 PM »
Why can't we all just get along?

240 is Back

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #269 on: March 25, 2008, 06:28:28 PM »
Goddam bro...you're as clueless as they come.

That's blasphemy.

dearth

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #270 on: March 25, 2008, 06:51:14 PM »
how Chick got involved in this thread:

Jim Manion sends Chick a text message on his musclephone

"call me NOW"

Manion: Bob it has come to my attention that someone is trying to put on am amatuer bodybuilding show without my consent !! (horror)

Chick: How could they dare cross the god father of bodybuilding !! ??

Manion: I heard that they are actually trying to give out prizes at this show!!!

Chick: how dare they outclass they NPC!

Manion: As you know, I don't want to officially bar any NPC members from competing, risk a lawsuit and more importantly dip into my retirement funds

Chick: Do you want me to give them getbig.com timeouts?

Manion: No Bob, but I do want you to make use of your internet fame, and see to it that any NPC members are discouraged to participate in this omigod, non NPC sanctioned show!!

Chick: consider it done boss! I'm gonna jump all over that B&A show thread like Lou on a $20.

click - end of conversation.


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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #271 on: March 25, 2008, 07:57:14 PM »
how Chick got involved in this thread:

Jim Manion sends Chick a text message on his musclephone

"call me NOW"

Manion: Bob it has come to my attention that someone is trying to put on am amatuer bodybuilding show without my consent !! (horror)

Chick: How could they dare cross the god father of bodybuilding !! ??

Manion: I heard that they are actually trying to give out prizes at this show!!!

Chick: how dare they outclass they NPC!

Manion: As you know, I don't want to officially bar any NPC members from competing, risk a lawsuit and more importantly dip into my retirement funds

Chick: Do you want me to give them getbig.com timeouts?

Manion: No Bob, but I do want you to make use of your internet fame, and see to it that any NPC members are discouraged to participate in this omigod, non NPC sanctioned show!!

Chick: consider it done boss! I'm gonna jump all over that B&A show thread like Lou on a $20.

click - end of conversation.





Wow...  that's so close to the real conversation it's scary.   Did you get that from a member of Bush's wiretapping team department of homeland security?
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Vince B

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #272 on: March 25, 2008, 08:05:51 PM »
"Chick's Gym" might be a winner!

Remember that Jim was Bob's mentor from the old days. No wonder Bob is still loyal today. Well, getting married and having a mortgage in expensive LA is no joke. So what if Bob has to kiss butt to pay his bills.

Still, for a guy who is supposed to be cool, I wonder how he gets to be both a stooge and dickhead on Getbig. I mean, who in his right mind would vote for a jerk like him? No wonder Jim uses the old appoint-them-for-life trick.

Chick

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #273 on: March 25, 2008, 08:17:58 PM »
"Chick's Gym" might be a winner!

Remember that Jim was Bob's mentor from the old days. No wonder Bob is still loyal today. Well, getting married and having a mortgage in expensive LA is no joke. So what if Bob has to kiss butt to pay his bills.

Still, for a guy who is supposed to be cool, I wonder how he gets to be both a stooge and dickhead on Getbig. I mean, who in his right mind would vote for a jerk like him? No wonder Jim uses the old appoint-them-for-life trick.


Thats pretty interesting being that I get a big check for $0 from the IFBB or NPC...

CT_Muscle

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Re: Message from "A Friend" about the B&A Bodybuilding Classic
« Reply #274 on: March 25, 2008, 08:32:28 PM »
Yes, agreed on the USA....very large shows like that can generate substantial revenues.

I know it might be a touchy subject but if you don't mind can you please tell me why Katz isn't promoting his show anymore? Thanks!