Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?

[Moosejay]

I remember in one magazine where Mentzer referred to Franco Columbu as, "Anold's weak-willed Namby Pamby Lackey"..who would jump onstage,with a towel, to wipe Arnold's sweat off his forehead. I always got a chuckle out of that line.

Haha...I recall that too

[Moosejay]

Tinnerino was jailed in the 1970's for hetro and homo pimping. Bob Birdsong was one of his most prolific whores. I remember Bob coming into the gym one morning when I was living in California and saying that he had a rough night of drinking and whoring the night before. "My mouth feels like the inside of a Parrot's cage" said Bob. "I'm not surprized, you had a "Cockatwo" in it last night grinned Dennis.
Did he go to jail in the 1980's as well ?
No wonder Bob and Dennis are such christians (both ministers) now. Another example of finding religion through dirty guilt.

Mike was not intellegent by the way. He was so stupid he actually couldn't see how obviously psudo his so called intellegence was. Arnold hated the way Mike tried to convince everyone he was in pre med. The only bodybuilder mentally thicker than Mike was Tom "buy my used trunks" Platz. He was always spouting about being into phylosophy but didn't have the vocabulary to articulate himself.


   

I believe he did a brief stint in jail in very early 80's

Yes, I recall Arnold getting riled at Mentzer's pre-med talk. He'd speak disainfully about it, inferring that it was not as Mentzer purveyed it to be...and he , I think, was correct.

[jason armstrong]

Actually having known both Mike and Arnold, the truth is that when Mentzer first came out on the scene, Arnold liked him very much. In fact he is quoted in a magazine back in 1977 as saying that "Mentzer impresses me not only with his fantastic physique, but the fact that he is very intelligent, articulate and well mannered." Mentzer made the mistake of writing articles, shortly afterwards, that claimed Arnold's training system was totally wrong and the only reason Arnold got so good was because he had great genetics." He tried to say Arnold and everyone who trained like him was wrong and that Heavy Duty was the only logical way to train. One thing about Arnold is that he won't tolerate someone saying that he is wrong or misguided. If you turn on him, he will make you his enemy and go out of his way to get some sort of revenge. Mentzer did have a strong sense of honor and justice and the sport of bodybuilding during the late 70's early 80's was an extremely important part of his life. When he finished 5th in 1980 and Arnold won, his real sense of purpose was shattered. Everything he was living for, in his eyes, became a horrible joke. That, combined with amphetamine abuse, caused his decline. Arnold did call Mike when Ray was sick, and they had words. They sort of buried the hatchet. Nowadays, Arnold admits to having regrets about some of the tactics he pulled when he was younger. Mentzer probably should have gotten past the 80 Olympia, regrouped, and he may have gone on to win it.

ya good post
that's why most people couldn't stand mentzer with his elitist attitude and "his way was the only"  it was well documented by many who trained with mentzer that he did 2-3 sometimes 4 times the volume of set and reps he recommended.....

[kiwiol]

Man, don't get me started.....You know, fcuk it, it's a beautiful Sunday and if Waddy wants to believe in his New-Age gobbledeegook there is no reason why you shouldn't believe in Objectivism. I. just. don't. have. the. energy. today.     

/agree with the mentzer bit, tho

LOL! You're not the first one to say that to me

[CoolDuck]

Mike was one of the few philosophers in bodybuilding. He had a logical mind and was able to express his thoughts in a coherent manner.

I read some of Mike Mentzer's articles, and I disagree. His so-called theories were pseudoscientific nonsense. Deductive logic is worthless if the premises are wrong.

CD

[bodybuilder1234]

Does anyone know the real story behind this photo?!   

It was because Arnold would refuse to sign the form to remove the weight classess, apparently he still wanted the light and heavy weight divisions. He was the only one, but Joe Weider took him to one side and made him do it.

Boy Coe actually asked Arnold what his explanation was for not doing so and Arnold replied 'Why dont you just be a man?' which really had nothing to do with the question.
It was then that Mike got up and started to throw threats

[Camel Jockey]

An ex Mr. Universe Ahmet Enunlu, exactly told what you said.
HIT training is suited for drug users, but he doesn't use 5x5 method, he uses more of a high volume training.

Not to mention the risk of injuries.. Naturals cannot afford joint injuries by trying to take every single set to all muscular failure, and then followed by forced reps and whatnot. Plus the unaturally long rest periods would simply not work if you're not on drugs. Besides all that, I don't think the average person can do HIT training correctly. Lets face it, it takes balls to the wall to try and get everything out of a few sets.. Most people would just give up and would walk away without properly exhausting the muscle(s). Volume is simply easier.. And I'd say heavy trainer with a moderate amount of sets is also easier, and is also much better suited for a natural because it builds both strength and size at the same time. Last, I don't think there's the need to complicate training so much. It's very simply; just work hard and use full ROM with free weights. It's not fucking rocket science. Nutrition is far more important, followed by of course genetics.

[onlyme]

Chemist, did you know or meet Ray's girlfriend Kathy Miranda around 85 to 86 or so.  She had an awesome body and was very cute.  She was Manny Perry's cousin.

[Moosejay]

It was because Arnold would refuse to sign the form to remove the weight classess, apparently he still wanted the light and heavy weight divisions. He was the only one, but Joe Weider took him to one side and made him do it.

Boy Coe actually asked Arnold what his explanation was for not doing so and Arnold replied 'Why dont you just be a man?' which really had nothing to do with the question.
It was then that Mike got up and started to throw threats

Yes, that is exactly hbow it was chronicled...Boyer asked a simple question, and politley, and Arnold gave his sarcastic non-answer

[dj181]

Not to mention the risk of injuries.. Naturals cannot afford joint injuries by trying to take every single set to all muscular failure, and then followed by forced reps and whatnot. Plus the unaturally long rest periods would simply not work if you're not on drugs. Besides all that, I don't think the average person can do HIT training correctly. Lets face it, it takes balls to the wall to try and get everything out of a few sets.. Most people would just give up and would walk away without properly exhausting the muscle(s). Volume is simply easier.. And I'd say heavy trainer with a moderate amount of sets is also easier, and is also much better suited for a natural because it builds both strength and size at the same time. Last, I don't think there's the need to complicate training so much. It's very simply; just work hard and use full ROM with free weights. It's not fucking rocket science. Nutrition is far more important, followed by of course genetics.

good post bro! me thinks dat da name of da game is progressive overload

[Vince B]

My assumption is that's the moment Mike and Arnold almost came to blows when Arnold threw the comment about Mike losing last year's Olympia due to his big stomach.

But wait! Who's that in the background of the photo? I could be wrong, but it looks to be Getbig's very own, Vince Basile!

Vince, if this is you, speak on this moment in the photo!

That is Peter McCarthy in the background. He should have been the Australian judge but no one told him the meeting was on so he was late and Brendan Ryan judged instead. Quite silly to me because Peter was a many times Mr Australia while Brendan won a junior title. I did an analysis of the results and had they used the scores from Peter instead of Brendan then Chris Dickerson would have won. The next time I see Peter I will ask him about that confrontation because he was right there.

[Moosejay]

I could never get over how Arnold could not make eye contact with Mentzer. Scared? I have read here by a few that Arnold had an aversion to fighting....

[Vince B]

I agree with this 100%. Most of the people here, if not nearly all of them don't really know Ayn Rand's philosophy and neither did Mike Mentzer. Mentzer used to liberally sprinkle a lot of what Ayn Rand said in his writings, after having rehashed them to make it seem like they were his own thoughts and formulations. Far from it. And a lot of his training principles were just rehashed stuff that was originally coined by Arthur Jones.

I've read plenty of Mike Mentzer's writings and all of Ayn Rand's writings quite a few times and I can honestly say that Mike Mentzer was not an intellectual or original thinker by any means. All he did was memorize a bit of Objectivism and then injected a lot of it in his writings in key areas to try and make it appear like the whole integrated piece was a sound and original principle of training based on a philosophy of rationality. So he really didn't come up with anything new or original - he just tried to make it appear like he did.

Unfortunately for him, the end result became the equivalent of a cheap fabric that was full of patches borrowed from somewhere else that just didn't make for a masterpiece like he seems to think it would have

It is obvious to me that the writings of Mike Mentzer are philosophical discourses. He was systematic and had a structure and cohesion that is the hallmark of philosophy. His theory may be mistaken but his work stands out as one of the few hypertrophy theories ever. Besides that he linked hypertrophy theory to other philosophy. I don't support objectivism but Mike did and I always was amazed to read such discourse in a bodybuilding magazine.

It is easy to be mistaken or partly mistaken when it comes to theories about anything that is complex. Mike always supported his ideas with anecdotal reports about his clients who all made progress according to him. I don't recall that there has ever been a definitive debate about hypertrophy theory. All that I have seen are various people championing one theory or another. I am not aware that anyone has ever written a doctoral thesis on human maximum muscular hypertrophy. There literally are no experts out there on this subject but many claim that they know all about it.

In my opinion, based on what he wrote, I would credit Mike with sufficient intelligence to have done a medical degree. I wonder if Arnold could have done one? Apparently he went to some college in LA but I don't know the particulars but it was not one of the esteemed universities. Mike never accepted Arnold as his intellectual peer and rightly so.

[m8]

I could never get over how Arnold could not make eye contact with Mentzer. Scared? I have read here by a few that Arnold had an aversion to fighting....

How tall is Mentzer? Arnold would have kicked his ass in a second.

[YoungBlood]

I could never get over how Arnold could not make eye contact with Mentzer. Scared? I have read here by a few that Arnold had an aversion to fighting....

Nah.....Arnold did that as one more thing to antagonize Metzner and get him even more riled up. "Why aren't you looking at me? Are you scared...come on bitch!" and then if you could even fathom something like this happening in this scenario; when Metzner is concentrating on why Arnold is not looking at him and concerned about whatever else is going through his mind....that's when Arnold would pop him. But Arnold wouldn't do that...he likes to fuck with peoples minds too much- again, by not looking at Mike, this only adds fuel to the fire.

[Vince B]

Arnold loves to get the last word in and I have personal experience of him getting up to put a motion I made down. So he did the same thing at the 80 Olympia and relied on his status to win the day. Mentzer wasn't buying that so confronted Arnold. Mike the philosopher was no match for Arnold the sophist and politician.

[The ChemistV2]

Chemist, did you know or meet Ray's girlfriend Kathy Miranda around 85 to 86 or so.  She had an awesome body and was very cute.  She was Manny Perry's cousin.

No, I only met Ray once but it was around 1979.

[Moosejay]

It is obvious to me that the writings of Mike Mentzer are philosophical discourses. He was systematic and had a structure and cohesion that is the hallmark of philosophy. His theory may be mistaken but his work stands out as one of the few hypertrophy theories ever. Besides that he linked hypertrophy theory to other philosophy. I don't support objectivism but Mike did and I always was amazed to read such discourse in a bodybuilding magazine.

It is easy to be mistaken or partly mistaken when it comes to theories about anything that is complex. Mike always supported his ideas with anecdotal reports about his clients who all made progress according to him. I don't recall that there has ever been a definitive debate about hypertrophy theory. All that I have seen are various people championing one theory or another. I am not aware that anyone has ever written a doctoral thesis on human maximum muscular hypertrophy. There literally are no experts out there on this subject but many claim that they know all about it.

In my opinion, based on what he wrote, I would credit Mike with sufficient intelligence to have done a medical degree. I wonder if Arnold could have done one? Apparently he went to some college in LA but I don't know the particulars but it was not one of the esteemed universities. Mike never accepted Arnold as his intellectual peer and rightly so.

I think Arnold got a correspondence degree from the University of Wisconsin

[Moosejay]

Arnold loves to get the last word in and I have personal experience of him getting up to put a motion I made down. So he did the same thing at the 80 Olympia and relied on his status to win the day. Mentzer wasn't buying that so confronted Arnold. Mike the philosopher was no match for Arnold the sophist and politician.

Yes, and Arnold lost the last word on that one.

[Pollux]

I think Arnold got a correspondence degree from the University of Wisconsin

Bachelor of Arts Degree with an individualized major in international marketing of fitness and business administration - Nov. '79 

[Pollux]

Boy Coe actually asked Arnold what his explanation was for not doing so and Arnold replied 'Why dont you just be a man?' which really had nothing to do with the question.

[Danimal77]

Note how Arnold avoids making eye-contact with Mentzer.....

Because Arnold felt above him. It was a condescending form of treatment on Arnold's behalf.

[Danimal77]

Mike was not intellegent by the way. He was so stupid he actually couldn't see how obviously psudo his so called intellegence was. Arnold hated the way Mike tried to convince everyone he was in pre med. The only bodybuilder mentally thicker than Mike was Tom "buy my used trunks" Platz. He was always spouting about being into phylosophy but didn't have the vocabulary to articulate himself.


   

BEfore you knock another man's intelligence, run a spell check, because almost every other word of your's is spelled incorrectly.

You - intellegent
Proper - intelligent
You - psudo
Proper - pseudo
you - phylosophy
Proper - philosophy

[CoolDuck]

It is obvious to me that the writings of Mike Mentzer are philosophical discourses. He was systematic and had a structure and cohesion that is the hallmark of philosophy. His theory may be mistaken but his work stands out as one of the few hypertrophy theories ever.

SNIP...

In my opinion, based on what he wrote, I would credit Mike with sufficient intelligence to have done a medical degree.

Mentzer may have been intelligent, but his writing and ideas suffered from a lack of basic scientific education. Actually, I have seen quite a few characters that remind me of him, usually people with pompous blogs. People that are intelligent, self-confident and arrogant when they claim to have solved all kinds of scientific riddles, yet they lack any kind of academic credentials. While one should not dismiss anybody based on credentials, I believe a lack of basic science education can lead to grave mistakes, as was clearly seen in Mentzers work.

CD

[Vince B]

The philosophy of science suggests that most theories are false. When a theory approximates the truth then that is progress. Mike was probably wrong about hypertrophy but he was consistent in what he wrote and that is still an impressive treatise.

I think just about everyone underestimated Arnold's intelligence. If you judge a person by what he has achieved then Arnold's record is outstanding when you consider he succeeded in a foreign country. I mean, how lucky was he to portray a machine in those science fiction movies? His accent helped him because he seemed foreign. The Terminator from the future should have had flawless English but there you are, a glitch, but believable on the screen.

I never felt Arnold was that smart and perhaps neither did Mike. Arnold exceeded us both by a wide margin when it comes to motivation and determination. Most people give up but not guys like Arnold. They use people and find a way to succeed when completely against the odds. That take an exceptional person to do that.