Author Topic: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate  (Read 2502 times)

loco

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The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« on: April 14, 2008, 10:06:56 AM »
SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- In an episode of the television show "Seinfeld," Jerry Seinfeld worries that his dentist has converted to Judaism so he can tell jokes about Jewish people. Someone asks Seinfeld, "And this offends you as a Jewish person?" No, he says, "it offends me as a comedian."

As a Mexican-American, that's how I feel when someone takes note of my support for comprehensive immigration reform, or my opposition to absurd "solutions" to the immigration problem, and concludes that I'm more Mexican than American.

Anyone who thinks there is no racism in this debate should read my e-mail. You'd find that readers say things to me they'd probably never say to a columnist who wasn't Latino. Like this: "You want your people here and despite your convoluted attempts to justify your position, you clearly don't give a whit on how they get here." Or this: "You keep justifying the illegal immigrants because you are a Mexican." Or this: "It is soooo obvious that you are a racist who is ONLY looking out for "your" people!"

Others suggest that I wouldn't be so quick to defend illegal immigrants if so many of them hadn't come from Mexico, or suggest that U.S-born Latinos like me have a vested interest in "bringing in your relatives" or in using immigration to increase the size and power of the U.S. Hispanic population. Others accuse me of having a secret agenda.

They're half right. I do have an agenda, but it's no secret. I've written op-eds and columns for nearly 20 years, and I still write 15,000 words a month.

My views are well-known. As an opinion writer, my agenda is to expose shameful politicians who use immigration to scare up votes, to be skeptical of feel-good solutions that don't work, and -- consistent with the journalist creed -- to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

My agenda is to demand what this debate really needs: more honesty, an end to hypocrisy, a ban on simple solutions, to be purged of racism and nativism, and an understanding that our anger should be aimed not at people but at government.

My agenda is to make sure that illegal immigrants, whatever their ethnicity, not be treated as scapegoats, picked on, or unfairly blamed for all of society's ills while we turn ourselves inside out making excuses for their accomplices -- the employers who hire them.

As a Mexican-American, I needn't choose between being Mexican and American. I'm both. But, it's true: I am more one than the other. As an American, I care about the little guy; Mexico doesn't. As an American, I recognize the positive impact of legal immigration; Mexico doesn't. As an American, I care about fairness and stamping out racism and prejudice; Mexico doesn't. In the country that nearly 100 years ago cast afloat my Mexican grandfather, there are winners and losers; in mine, we take it as fact that with hard work and sacrifice, anyone can win.

Some assume that the ugly tone of the immigration debate offends me as a Mexican. No. It offends me as an American.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/14/navarrette.mexican/index.html

24KT

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2008, 02:27:24 PM »
It offends me too, ...and I'm neither American nor Mexican.  ;D
w

drkaje

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 06:02:29 AM »
It's a debate that would be ended by improved border security and reasonable deportation (them and their kids) policies.

loco

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 06:09:50 AM »
It's a debate that would be ended by improved border security and reasonable deportation (them and their kids) policies.

Don't you think it would end too if employers and individuals would just stop hiring illegal immigrants?

Would you deport their kids too even if they are born American citizens?

240 is Back

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 06:26:21 AM »
It offends me too, ...and I'm neither American nor Mexican.  ;D

eh, we'll be crashing your backyard before too loog, jag ;)  that superhighway will be dropping off a lot of labor in your yard.

24KT

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 06:34:06 AM »
eh, we'll be crashing your backyard before too loog, jag ;)  that superhighway will be dropping off a lot of labor in your yard.

As long as they're not going into labour in my yard... I'm good.
I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies.  :)
w

drkaje

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 08:18:50 AM »
Don't you think it would end too if employers and individuals would just stop hiring illegal immigrants?

Would you deport their kids too even if they are born American citizens?

Fruit of the illegal tree. Would you rather they be put up for adoption and the parents deported?

loco

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 08:25:48 AM »
Fruit of the illegal tree. Would you rather they be put up for adoption and the parents deported?

What I'd rather do does not really matter.  I was just curious about your opinion.  Employers and individuals must stop hiring illegal immigrants if they want the problem to stop.  Illegal immigrants will leave voluntarily if they can't find work in the US....they'll go to Canada.

By law, you can't deport American citizens and by law you can't separate them from their parents unless they are not good parents.  There is no easy solution.  Maybe legalize only those illegal immigrants who have children born in the US?  I don't know. 

Maybe now is the time to change the law so that the children of illegal immigrants are not citizens even if born in the US.

OzmO

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2008, 08:27:06 AM »
IMO  deporting American citizens is not an option.

The Squadfather

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 08:31:08 AM »
from what i've seen the vast majority of mexican illegals are hard working, law abiding citizens who mind their own business and keep to themselves............."african-american" people on the other hand? :-X

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2008, 08:36:38 AM »
from what i've seen the vast majority of mexican illegals are hard working, law abiding citizens who mind their own business and keep to themselves............."african-american" people on the other hand? :-X

I will agree with you on that one.  I don't have a problem with the Mexicans.

Fury

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 08:38:21 AM »
from what i've seen the vast majority of mexican illegals are hard working, law abiding citizens who mind their own business and keep to themselves............."african-american" people on the other hand? :-X

I agree about the Mexicans, for the most part. It's just bitter Americans who want everything handed to them on a silver platter while not willing to work for it and who would instead rather bitch about some other hard working people taking their jobs that are complaining.  ::)

drkaje

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2008, 08:39:05 AM »
IMO  deporting American citizens is not an option.

Fine.... then let them live as citizens abroad. :) Give them a passport, SSN, etc... when of legal age they can visit, live, work, pay taxes, etc... there's no logical reason to burdon taxpayers because their pregnant mom snuck across the border.

They do have to make the penalties for hiring illegals stiffer or at the very least come up with a legit way to use illegals and pay them real money.

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2008, 09:35:38 AM »

They do have to make the penalties for hiring illegals stiffer or at the very least come up with a legit way to use illegals and pay them real money.

Careful Jake, ...the idealist inside that thick jaded cynical exterior is beginning to peep out.



"Pay them real money"?
Like that's ever going to happen
w

drkaje

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2008, 09:44:47 AM »

Careful Jake, ...the idealist inside that thick jaded cynical exterior is beginning to peep out.



"Pay them real money"?
Like that's ever going to happen

Don't be silly, Judi. I'm not an idealist. Merely hoping that making them taxpayers will offset some of the burdon their half-illegal offspring put on the system. I'd rather they forced people on welfare, SSI, etc... to pick stuff in the fields and illegals but there some stupid law that prohibits making people work for welfare.

OzmO

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 09:52:13 AM »
Fine.... then let them live as citizens abroad. :) Give them a passport, SSN, etc... when of legal age they can visit, live, work, pay taxes, etc... there's no logical reason to burdon taxpayers because their pregnant mom snuck across the border.

They do have to make the penalties for hiring illegals stiffer or at the very least come up with a legit way to use illegals and pay them real money.

Then we will be known as a country who has deported it's own citizens?


Don;t get me wrong, drkaje, I'm against illegal immigrants.  I don;t like that in California there are whole communities that don't speak English.  I don;t like that my children, when they were younger, had half their class done in Spanish.  i don;t like that there are illegals enjoying the benefits of the USA.

But i don't think we should deport our own citizens.

drkaje

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 10:05:43 AM »
Then we will be known as a country who has deported it's own citizens?


Don;t get me wrong, drkaje, I'm against illegal immigrants.  I don;t like that in California there are whole communities that don't speak English.  I don;t like that my children, when they were younger, had half their class done in Spanish.  i don;t like that there are illegals enjoying the benefits of the USA.

But i don't think we should deport our own citizens.

Well.... in politics, whoever wins the war of words generally wins on the issue. We just have to come up with a more palatable word than deport, LOL! Ultimately their parents are cheating a flawed system. All it would take is ammending the constitution to say children of citizens are automaticaly citizens. no one is actually taking you, Arizona or any other taxpayers seriously and this is all lip service for votes.

If someone (with a chance to win) were serious they would suggest ammending the law... we all know an ammendment would possibly pass. California or maybe Arizona will ultimately challenge the law on the basis of it violating state rights but McCain is running and could never afford an honest discussion on the matter. Pretending that border security is the only issue when the law is at fault will work for a long time because most people are either stupid or intelectually dishonest. Fixing the law would remove the issue from the table once and for all and would end up robbing politians of a polarizing issue.

Dos Equis

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2008, 10:42:01 AM »

Maybe now is the time to change the law so that the children of illegal immigrants are not citizens even if born in the US.

That seems like the right response to me. 

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2008, 12:24:12 PM »
Why does it have to be an ugly debate?  People who are in the U.S. illegally are breaking the law and should be deported.  The government should also pass immediate legislation to deny citizenship for children born in the US to non-resident mothers.  The fact that the US can't even enforce the law because it may offend a minority of the population is absurd.

loco

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2008, 12:34:00 PM »
Why does it have to be an ugly debate?  People who are in the U.S. illegally are breaking the law and should be deported.  The government should also pass immediate legislation to deny citizenship for children born in the US to non-resident mothers.  The fact that the US can't even enforce the law because it may offend a minority of the population is absurd.

Yes, and companies and individuals who hire illegal immigrants are breaking the law too, and that's what attracts illegal immigrants to the US, and that's what keeps them in the US.

OzmO

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2008, 12:42:51 PM »
People born in America are citizens by birth right.  I believe it's in the constitution.

Pass a law now to change that for illegals is fine.  But what about the current citizens?


And the screwed thing about it......  nothing is really being done and or will be done any way.  Illegals will still be here.

Dos Equis

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2008, 12:45:50 PM »
People born in America are citizens by birth right.  I believe it's in the constitution.

Pass a law now to change that for illegals is fine.  But what about the current citizens?


And the screwed thing about it......  nothing is really being done and or will be done any way.  Illegals will still be here.

Laws are generally prospective, so it shouldn't apply to current illegals.  It would be a deterrent. 

OzmO

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2008, 12:51:20 PM »
Laws are generally prospective, so it shouldn't apply to current illegals.  It would be a deterrent. 

I agree.

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2008, 03:03:25 PM »
One Taco Bell large Crunchwrap Supreme please.  ;D




24KT

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Re: The ugly Mexican-American immigration debate
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2008, 04:39:35 PM »
Is it necessary to inject racism into ever thread?
w