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Author Topic: The #2 bodybuilder in the world doesn't have health insurance  (Read 4515 times)
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« Reply #100 on: April 17, 2008, 05:29:42 PM »

Ron said to tell you he weighs as much as Victor, but has had no problems.  Cheesy

 Grin  Sadly to a degree weight has little to do with health. Now, I said to a degree.
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« Reply #101 on: April 17, 2008, 05:29:51 PM »

After winning the Arnold Classic, 2nd at the O, and cashing that big paycheck, and being one of the highest paid and most visible names in bodybuilding, not to mention one of the top names...

Vic Martinez didn't have health insurance when he hurt his leg.  He had to pay CASH for the procedure with one of the best surgeons in the country.

Now I don't wanna say "You might be ghetto if...", but in this case it might really apply.

Top of the sport for two years - in a sport completely dependent upon his body - and he doesn't have health insurance?  Is it safe to assume he hasn't been getting blood levels and other things checked as well, since he obviously doesn't have a doctor?

...You'd be surprised how many people here in America don't have health insurance. It's a lot more common than you think. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with being "ghetto", "redneck" or "whitetrash". ~ Cool


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« Reply #102 on: April 17, 2008, 05:32:17 PM »

No, I understood but I was unsure if it was same as Vic's.

Glad the outcome was good....lemme tell ya, as a veteran of 14 ortho sx's, you will never be the same.

You can be better than you were, but in a different way.

Know that sounds weird, but you know my slant...
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« Reply #103 on: April 17, 2008, 05:34:04 PM »

No, I understood but I was unsure if it was same as Vic's.

Glad the outcome was good....lemme tell ya, as a veteran of 14 ortho sx's, you will never be the same.

You can be better than you were, but in a different way.

Know that sounds weird, but you know my slant...

Yeah you are right. The mechanics is not the same. BTW, I wasn't beng a smart ass just in case you thought I was.  Smiley
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« Reply #104 on: April 17, 2008, 05:48:25 PM »

No, I knew you were being cool. All good, my friend,

Mike
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« Reply #105 on: April 17, 2008, 05:49:59 PM »

You'd think with getting taxed @33% on your money, the government would provide health care.  Crooked as fuck. Wink  The best scam of all-time, social security..hahah  The US is  a great country, but man, what a bunch of bullshitters. Undecided
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« Reply #106 on: April 17, 2008, 05:51:17 PM »

...You'd be surprised how many people here in America don't have health insurance. It's a lot more common than you think. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with being "ghetto", "redneck" or "whitetrash". ~ Cool




45 million without.

But, go to any casino.

You will see THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of people gambling, and, if stats are right, 15% will be without health insurance.

BUT, they seem to think they have discretionary income to piss away at roulette and such.

I think you get my point.

There is no 'crisis', for the most part. Absolutely none.

Don't let the media scare you.
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« Reply #107 on: April 17, 2008, 05:52:44 PM »

You'd think with getting taxed @33% on your money, the government would provide health care.  Crooked as fuck. Wink  The best scam of all-time, social security..hahah  The US is  a great country, but man, what a bunch of bullshitters. Undecided

Yes.

Which is why we should all take carte of OURSELVES.

Govern yopurself.

Don't blamne the govt.

When we point the finger oif blame back at ourselves, then we truly control our own paths.

This is how to be truly free.
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« Reply #108 on: April 17, 2008, 05:53:44 PM »

Yes.

Which is why we should all take carte of OURSELVES.

Govern yopurself.

Don't blamne the govt.

When we point the finger oif blame back at ourselves, then we truly control our own paths.

This is how to be truly free.

Thanks, pops, I'll remember that.
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« Reply #109 on: April 17, 2008, 05:54:56 PM »

Thanks, pops, I'll remember that.

Don't mention it, sonny...that's a freebie Grin
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« Reply #110 on: April 17, 2008, 06:30:09 PM »

Hey Matt.

Yeah, our system has problems, but one of the best facets is no-wait policy, especially for emergency services and CT/MRI scans.

I have practiced successfully for 15 years, and have never turned one patient down for care.

Not everyone practices my style, but goodness can be had here.

Moose

It's the "Big Trade-off" - fairness and efficiency.  If the government forcibly redistributes the pie, the pie becomes smaller for everyone.

Moreover, perverse things happen in socialized medicine.  Like 16-month waiting lists for surgery.  Like three lithotripters in a major city, whereas in America there are 300 in a similar sized city.  Like the system subsidizing the care of upper middle class people who could easily afford it themselves.  That said, based on my review up to this point, the Canadian system seems to be better than the American system, and care under the EU, better still.
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« Reply #111 on: April 17, 2008, 06:34:29 PM »

Yeah, perhaps.

I just have remained as a solo practice (I am a dinosaur in that respect), and have been able to serve my patients admirably and without prejudice, as such.

Mike
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« Reply #112 on: April 17, 2008, 06:55:22 PM »

45 million without.

But, go to any casino.

You will see THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of people gambling, and, if stats are right, 15% will be without health insurance.

BUT, they seem to think they have discretionary income to piss away at roulette and such.

I think you get my point.

There is no 'crisis', for the most part. Absolutely none.

Don't let the media scare you.

...Friend, my comment has absolutely NOTHING to do with the "media". I live in the real world, deal with many, many different types of people. All races, backgrounds, etc. My comment is based soley on facts. True most people have money for the things that they want but to put it mildly, health care should be the right to each and every single tax payer in this country. I'm done speaking on this. ~ Cool
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« Reply #113 on: April 17, 2008, 07:00:19 PM »

...Friend, my commment has absolutely NOTHING to do with the "media". I live in the real world, deal with many, many different types of people. All races, backgrounds, etc. My comment is based soley on facts. True most people have money for the things that they want but to put it mildly, health care should be the right to each and every single tax payer in this country. I'm done speaking on this. ~ Cool

I, too, live in the real world, and woirk for myself...100% self-made.

I have trouble falling to sleep...but I don't count sheep.

I count all the rights...folks think they have so many of them that they feel entitled to things they have not worked for.

Especially when they do so much to wreck their own health.

Bit I guess they have the right to do this too, yes?

Cheers,

MJ
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« Reply #114 on: April 17, 2008, 07:02:16 PM »

Ah in Vics case it would be very hard because of his weight.

So go off the sauce for six months, shrink down to Tom Prince size, pass the physical, then go right back on.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #115 on: April 17, 2008, 07:12:24 PM »

what about placing limits on how much hospitals are allowed to charge.  for instance if you need a surgery done, you pay for the variable cost and the hospital handles its fixed cost.  Sure taxes would have to be raised, but not to canada's level.
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« Reply #116 on: April 17, 2008, 07:17:30 PM »

HMO's have done this, if the hospital has agreed to participate with them. There are also other forms of capitation.

Raising taxes IS NOT the answer...

Unless you are fond of paying for the various baby mama's out there...
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« Reply #117 on: April 17, 2008, 07:31:13 PM »

Health insurance is a must.
Here in Austria 10 days in a hospital ~6000$.


Galblladder removal which was done with Laparoscopic surgery 3 days in the hospital including 2 ambulance rides and 1 day in the ER (while troubleshooting the problem).  It ran $30,000 U.S..  This also included a follow up visit.
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« Reply #118 on: April 17, 2008, 07:41:58 PM »

Yeah, I could see that.

TYhe irony is this:

If you had HMO insurance that the hospital in question participated with, they'd only be able to take what the insurance paid them (could be half the bill, or in that area).

They could not balance bill you.

If they billed your insurance out-of-network(meaning they'd take what the ins paid, but they did not participate with them) then they could balance bill you.

If you were a cash-paying patient, then you'd owe 30k.
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« Reply #119 on: April 17, 2008, 07:49:41 PM »

I'm not a big fan of the greedy health insurance companies.  Why should there be a middle man with their hand in the pot between you and your doctor?  A lot of the cost incurred by a doctor's office is hiring help just to handle all the insurance paperwork.  And don't forget that employers, especially small businesses, are handcuffed with the expectation of a health insurance plan, and most of the time pay a majority of the premium.  I think we should do away with healthcare insurance and open the healthcare field up to competitive, fair pricing.  It's no different than if you have to suddenly buy a new car or replace the roof on your house, it's just something that's part of life.  And it does away with getting a free ride.  If you don't take care of yourself, it's going to cost you $$ later.   
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« Reply #120 on: April 17, 2008, 07:54:51 PM »

Hmmm, yes, I see your points.

However, what could happen is this:

Its true that overhead is very, very high.

If you make it harder for us to get paid, the best minds considering healthcare or becoming docs will say screw it, and go into computers or something more lucrative.

You will have lesser minds becoming docs, and quality of care and success rates in medicine will bottom out.
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« Reply #121 on: April 17, 2008, 08:10:21 PM »

what about placing limits on how much hospitals are allowed to charge.  for instance if you need a surgery done, you pay for the variable cost and the hospital handles its fixed cost.  Sure taxes would have to be raised, but not to canada's level.

The cost of medical technology in this country is too high. Hospitals have to fix their portion of a total cost with this in mind (among a hundred other factors when setting cost), and moreso - what you're paying for a surgery includes hospital costs plus anesthisia plus the surgeons fee and so on.... everyone still wants their cut either way.

I'm not a big fan of the greedy health insurance companies.  Why should there be a middle man with their hand in the pot between you and your doctor?  A lot of the cost incurred by a doctor's office is hiring help just to handle all the insurance paperwork.  And don't forget that employers, especially small businesses, are handcuffed with the expectation of a health insurance plan, and most of the time pay a majority of the premium.  I think we should do away with healthcare insurance and open the healthcare field up to competitive, fair pricing.  It's no different than if you have to suddenly buy a new car or replace the roof on your house, it's just something that's part of life.  And it does away with getting a free ride.  If you don't take care of yourself, it's going to cost you $$ later.   

That's a loaded proposal though, making healthcare a traditional commodity means doctors and patients have more liability to make decisions than they do now. Doctors can be held responsible for not disclosing enough info for patients to make a decision on what treatment they would choose/buy (as it is now, but the courts usually uphold a standard of care that gives the doctor the benefit of the doubt in making medical decisions). Doctors don't want more risk in this sense. On the other side, patients already don't want the responsibility of making their medical decisions, but they'd be held more accountable for those choices. Most opinions say if this situation were possible then patients would be subject to the usual buyer beware laws. IOW - say you chose to have an x-ray done over a CT because it was cheaper but the doctor missed an abnormal mast because it wasn't as clear on the x-ray. You're SOL and its your fault because you chose the cheaper option  Undecided
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« Reply #122 on: April 17, 2008, 08:35:16 PM »

Quote
Hmmm, yes, I see your points.

However, what could happen is this:

Its true that overhead is very, very high.

If you make it harder for us to get paid, the best minds considering healthcare or becoming docs will say screw it, and go into computers or something more lucrative.

You will have lesser minds becoming docs, and quality of care and success rates in medicine will bottom out.

Well, currently the doctor's salary is a small fraction of the bill.  His or her salary would actually increase in a world without insurance.  Prices billed by your doctor's office are currently artificially inflated.  The person without insurance has to pay through the nose for this.  If you have insurance, the bill is submitted to your insurance company and they have a pre-set negotiated price with the doctor.  If the doctor offered you that negotiated price, plus 30% more discount due to less need for staffing, insurance paperwork, etc. the quality of care would skyrocket.  No longer would your doctor be part of an HMO or PPO group where they have to meet patient quotas and cut corners to make money for the group.  
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« Reply #123 on: April 17, 2008, 08:38:59 PM »

True, but eliminating the HMO's would be near impossible...they are that powerful.
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« Reply #124 on: April 17, 2008, 09:24:48 PM »

Well, currently the doctor's salary is a small fraction of the bill.  His or her salary would actually increase in a world without insurance.  Prices billed by your doctor's office are currently artificially inflated.  The person without insurance has to pay through the nose for this.  If you have insurance, the bill is submitted to your insurance company and they have a pre-set negotiated price with the doctor.  If the doctor offered you that negotiated price, plus 30% more discount due to less need for staffing, insurance paperwork, etc. the quality of care would skyrocket.  No longer would your doctor be part of an HMO or PPO group where they have to meet patient quotas and cut corners to make money for the group.  

I still don't think people would pay it, you're talking about paying a $20 co-pay for an office visit vs. a 30% discount off @ $150 - $200+ for an office visit. You reduce the cost of a doctor's visit enough to where its competitive to what people want to pay and the doctor has to make up the difference in volume - you still have the same problems as you do in an HMO. Plus, patients still pay for higher medical technology, diagnostic testing and other advanced procedures that would still have high dollar costs that are passed on to the patient. Bottom line - people in the US have gotten used to paying a minimal out of pocket expense for the highest level of care.

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