Praying passenger removed from plane at NY airport

[Dos Equis]

Someone needs to conduct a seminar called "How to stay off the front page of the newspaper."   


Apr 18, 2:36 AM EDT

Praying passenger removed from plane at NY airport

NEW YORK (AP) -- A passenger who left his seat to pray in the back of a plane before it took off, ignoring flight attendants' orders to return, was removed by an airport security guard, a witness and the airline said.

The Orthodox Jewish man, who wore a full beard, a black hat and a long black coat, stood near the lavatories and began saying his prayers while the United Airlines jet was being boarded at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Wednesday night, said Ori Brafman, a fellow passenger who spoke about the incident by phone from San Francisco, where he lives.

When flight attendants urged the man, who was carrying a religious book, to take his seat, he ignored them, Brafman said. Two friends, who were seated, tried to tell the attendants that the man couldn't stop until after he'd finished his prayers in about 2 minutes, he said.

When the man finally stopped praying, he explained that he couldn't interrupt his religious ritual and wasn't trying to be rude. But the attendants summoned a guard to remove him, said Brafman, a writer who had been visiting New York to talk to publishers.

The plane, Flight 9 to San Francisco, took off without the man. It landed at its destination as scheduled, Brafman said.

Robin Urbanski, a spokeswoman for United Airlines, a subsidiary of UAL Corp. with headquarters in Chicago, confirmed the man was taken off the plane and put on another flight Thursday morning.

Urbanski said flights cannot depart if all passengers are not in their seats, which risks a delay, and it is important that passengers listen to the instructions of the flight crew.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs area airports, and the Transportation Security Administration, which handles airport security, said Thursday they weren't involved in the incident.
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PRAYING_PASSENGER?SITE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[w8tlftr]

What's the problem here?

[Dos Equis]

A lack of common sense by both sides.  He should have started his prayer much earlier.  They shouldn't have kicked him off the plane.  This is sort of like Southwest kicking the girl off the plane who wore a shirt skirt.  Not illegal, but a dumb PR move. 

[240 is Back]

I heard about one guy that got kicked out of an airport bathroom for trying to bang another dude.

liberal ass cops

[w8tlftr]

I heard about one guy that got kicked out of an airport bathroom for trying to bang another dude.

liberal ass cops

LOL

[ToxicAvenger]

i've seen muslim folks praying in airports..

seriously...miss a gawd damn prayer..god will understand and actually appreciate you not freaking people out..

[War-Horse]

i've seen muslim folks praying in airports..

seriously...miss a gawd damn prayer..god will understand and actually appreciate you not freaking people out..

Yeah, theres a lot of rules for that shit.  You got to face east and carry a rug, and point your bum up in the face of the guy behind you......not interested.

[calmus]

I've notice folks praying in airports only after 9/11.  Don't know if it always happened and I just didn't pay attention....

[Nordic Superman]

Don't pray on a plane. Simple, fucking moron knows exactly what people will think.

[Benny B]

I always say a prayer before the plane takes off. However, I don't need to stand up in the back of the plane and pray while you're supposed to be seated. What a dunce.

[War-Horse]

I always say a prayer before the plane takes off. However, I don't need to stand up in the back of the plane and pray while you're supposed to be seated. What a dunce.

Exactly.  Dont have to make a scene. 

[shootfighter1]

Yeah, holding up hundreds of people for your outlandish prayer ritual is not reasonable. 

[Dos Equis]

Yeah, holding up hundreds of people for your outlandish prayer ritual is not reasonable. 

I agree he or anyone shouldn't hold up the plane, but the flight attendants had to wait two minutes, they kicked him off, and still left on time. 

[Deedee]

I agree he or anyone shouldn't hold up the plane, but the flight attendants had to wait two minutes, they kicked him off, and still left on time. 

Not the point Beach. The rules apply equally to everyone, and when they tell you to sit down, you do it, for security reasons.  Should white knucklers get to flaunt the rules because they have to say their four minute affirmations? Do Muslims get to pull out the rug at the back of the plane?

Besides, if he had waited to daven till they were in mid-air, he would have been that much closer to God. 

[Dos Equis]

Not the point Beach. The rules apply equally to everyone, and when they tell you to sit down, you do it, for security reasons.  Should white knucklers get to flaunt the rules because they have to say their four minute affirmations? Do Muslims get to pull out the rug at the back of the plane?

Besides, if he had waited to daven till they were in mid-air, he would have been that much closer to God. 

That's not my point Deedee.  They had every right to throw him off the plane.  I'm looking at this partly from a business standpoint.  If you're trying to avoid being a national story and possibly losing business, you talk to the guy, ensure he isn't a threat, take off on time, and no one is talking about it the next in some city 5000 miles away. 

But I agree about the closer to God part.  I spent a lot of time in the air the past couple weeks and I love praying at over 30,000 feet.   

[Deedee]

That's not my point Deedee.  They had every right to throw him off the plane.  I'm looking at this partly from a business standpoint.  If you're trying to avoid being a national story and possibly losing business, you talk to the guy, ensure he isn't a threat, take off on time, and no one is talking about it the next in some city 5000 miles away. 

But I agree about the closer to God part.  I spent a lot of time in the air the past couple weeks and I love praying at over 30,000 feet.   

Nobody's going to stop flying UA over this.  Passengers are getting thrown off planes left and right and people are inured to it. From what I've seen personally, most get pissed at the stupid passengers, not the airline, because everyone knows you have to follow the strict procedures you agreed to when you bought your ticket. On the other hand, if a plane load of people can watch a passenger flaunt rules and there are no consequences, that just encourages more of the same behavior. They did the right thing by erring on the side of security.

Been flying on a wing and prayer these past few weeks? 

[Dos Equis]

Nobody's going to stop flying UA over this.  Passengers are getting thrown off planes left and right and people are inured to it. From what I've seen personally, most get pissed at the stupid passengers, not the airline, because everyone knows you have to follow the strict procedures you agreed to when you bought your ticket. On the other hand, if a plane load of people can watch a passenger flaunt rules and there are no consequences, that just encourages more of the same behavior. They did the right thing by erring on the side of security.

Been flying on a wing and prayer these past few weeks? 

You don't think at least some Orthodox Jews and others will stop flying UA over this?  I do.  At a minimum, it's a distinct possibility.  They also certainly lost this particular passenger’s business.  And with the state of the airline industry, they need all the passengers they can get.  That makes it a bad business decision in my book, particularly given how minimal of a problem this appeared to be.  Despite throwing him off the plane, they still left on time.

I don't think this is one of those "the floodgates will open" situations at all.  If they would have simply warned the guy and took off (on time), no one would even know about this.  It shouldn't be a story.   

Yes I've been flying on a wing and a prayer.  Nice one.     

[Deedee]

You don't think at least some Orthodox Jews and others will stop flying UA over this?  I do.  At a minimum, it's a distinct possibility.  They also certainly lost this particular passenger’s business.  And with the state of the airline industry, they need all the passengers they can get.  That makes it a bad business decision in my book, particularly given how minimal of a problem this appeared to be.  Despite throwing him off the plane, they still left on time.

I don't think this is one of those "the floodgates will open" situations at all.  If they would have simply warned the guy and took off (on time), no one would even know about this.  It shouldn't be a story.   

Yes I've been flying on a wing and a prayer.  Nice one.     

Nah Beach, they won't.  A couple of years ago the exact same thing happened on a NY bound flight, and to this day, Orthodox Jews... come Monday through Friday morning are on that flight as per usual.

The New York Times article stressed that he ignored the flight attendants' repeated urgings to sit down, and that the flight was slightly delayed. It was a question of undermining authority.

If you want to know what Orthodox Jews think of this, here's the Yeshiva World - Frum News - lol, can't believe I'm linking this  but the comments are all what I thought they would be... some of them funny too!

"It's like Pringles... once you pop, you can't stop!"

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/16945/Man+Davening+Shemona+Esray+On+Airplane+Removed+From+Aircraft+.html

There's this thing called Chillul Hashem... or, abusing God by flaunting your piety in public. A few of the responders also mentioned that if the person praying had been Muslim, he would have been dealt with much more harshly.  I think so too. 

[Fury]

A few of the responders also mentioned that if the person praying had been Muslim, he would have been dealt with much more harshly.  I think so too. 

As they should be. I don't know too many orthodox jews that seem intent on blowing planes up.

[Dos Equis]

Nah Beach, they won't.  A couple of years ago the exact same thing happened on a NY bound flight, and to this day, Orthodox Jews... come Monday through Friday morning are on that flight as per usual.

The New York Times article stressed that he ignored the flight attendants' repeated urgings to sit down, and that the flight was slightly delayed. It was a question of undermining authority.

If you want to know what Orthodox Jews think of this, here's the Yeshiva World - Frum News - lol, can't believe I'm linking this  but the comments are all what I thought they would be... some of them funny too!

"It's like Pringles... once you pop, you can't stop!"

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/16945/Man+Davening+Shemona+Esray+On+Airplane+Removed+From+Aircraft+.html

There's this thing called Chillul Hashem... or, abusing God by flaunting your piety in public. A few of the responders also mentioned that if the person praying had been Muslim, he would have been dealt with much more harshly.  I think so too. 

The comments are consistent with what I said earlier:  he should have started his prayer earlier and they had every right to kick him off.  I'm sure it's possible this will have no impact on future customers, but I doubt it.  The risk is there.  That's what would be most important to me from a business standpoint.  Why take the risk of having this talked about all over the country?  Really unnecessary. 

But I see your point.       

Regarding whether the flight was delayed, the article says "It landed at its destination as scheduled . . . ."

[Nordic Superman]

As they should be. I don't know too many orthodox jews that seem intent on blowing planes up.

This isn't very PC BerzerkFury! Logic doesn't apply to deranged liberal apologists.

[Fury]

This isn't very PC BerzerkFury! Logic doesn't apply to deranged liberal apologists.

Hahahaha, silly me. What I meant to say is that the Zionist scum would force the lion sheik mujahedeen martyr to submit to a series of unfair, cruel and unusual punishments/tortures. 

[ToxicAvenger]

Yeah, theres a lot of rules for that shit.  You got to face east and carry a rug, and point your bum up in the face of the guy behind you......not interested.

well i dont really care about how they pray.

facing mecca signifies equality
the rug is just for cleanliness purposes..so one can pray anywhere....
bowing down is just humility..

i have no problem with any of those..folks just need to think better post 911 though..

[Deedee]

This isn't very PC BerzerkFury! Logic doesn't apply to deranged liberal apologists.

Lay off the marmite NS, cause it's affecting your thought processes. You know perfectly well I would ban every burka on earth if I could. Where does liberal apology figure at all? Some dude didn't pay attention to the flight attendants and got booted off the plane. Where do politics even come into it, unless you're promoting anarchy? Do you want to have to wade past a bunch of people with special needs next time you board a plane?

The comments are consistent with what I said earlier:  he should have started his prayer earlier and they had every right to kick him off.  I'm sure it's possible this will have no impact on future customers, but I doubt it.  The risk is there.  That's what would be most important to me from a business standpoint.  Why take the risk of having this talked about all over the country?  Really unnecessary. 

But I see your point.       

Regarding whether the flight was delayed, the article says "It landed at its destination as scheduled . . . ."

Regarding what the article says... have you ever seen Pushing Tin?

We'll see, and maybe you're right. I will eat a jar of marmite if I am. But I have a feeling these incidents only make people less sympathetic. Everybody wants to get their vacation started, or be at their business meeting on time. Nobody cares. 

[Nordic Superman]

Lay off the marmite NS, cause it's affecting your thought processes. You know perfectly well I would ban every burka on earth if I could. Where does liberal apology figure at all? Some dude didn't pay attention to the flight attendants and got booted off the plane. Where do politics even come into it, unless you're promoting anarchy? Do you want to have to wade past a bunch of people with special needs next time you board a plane?

If 99% of suicide bombers and plane hijackers ARE muslim, doesn't it make sense to profile them and be more weary?

Logistically tell me how it makes sense to apply the same effort to a group of people who don't hijack planes?

Sometimes statistics can be a good gauge designate resources.