Author Topic: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case  (Read 5439 times)

Dos Equis

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ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« on: April 20, 2008, 10:55:59 PM »
Figures.   ::)

ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
     
SAN ANGELO, Texas (CNN) -- The Texas branch of the American Civil Liberties Union said it was concerned that the basic rights of the children and mothers connected to a Texas polygamist ranch were violated during a recent raid and custody hearing.

At the hearing Friday, Judge Barbara Walther ordered 416 children connected to the YFZ (Yearning For Zion) ranch kept in state custody.

Walther made her ruling after two days of testimony at the hearing, which was aimed at determining whether child welfare authorities properly removed the children from the sect's Texas ranch. The judge said she found sufficient evidence for Texas Child Protective Services to retain custody of the children.

The ACLU said it had a representative at the court hearing and the organization was concerned about human rights violations.

"While we acknowledge that Judge Walther's task may be unprecedented in Texas judicial history, we question whether the current proceedings adequately protect the fundamental rights of the mothers and children," Terri Burke, executive director of the ACLU of Texas, said in a written statement.

"As this situation continues to unfold, we are concerned that the constitutional rights that all Americans rely upon and cherish -- that we are secure in our homes, that we may worship as we please and hold our places of worship sacred, and that we may be with our children absent evidence of imminent danger -- have been threatened," Burke said.

The group's courtroom observer, Lisa Graybill, added: "We recognize that this balancing act is difficult, but we are concerned that government may not be complying with the Constitution or the laws of Texas in the execution of its mandate, from how the raids were conducted to whether the current process protects basic rights."

The ACLU statement did not list any specific instances of human rights or constitutional violations, and ACLU representatives did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said her department is in the process of finding "temporary placement" for all the children. "What we did was warranted and in the best interest of the children," she said. "This is not about religion -- this is about keeping children safe from abuse."

The hearing stems from an April 4 raid of the ranch, which authorities said was triggered by phone calls in late March from a 16-year-old officials referred to as Sarah. The caller said she had been beaten and forced to become a man's "spiritual" wife.

On Thursday, child protection supervisor Angie Voss testified that she and other investigators encountered several pregnant teenagers at the YFZ ranch, which is in Eldorado, Texas, about 40 miles outside San Angelo. The girls called each other "sister wives," Voss said, and believed it was acceptable to be "spiritually united" with a man at any age. "It was the belief that no age was too young to be married," she said.

Members of the ranch have denied the girl, supposedly named Sarah Jessop Barlow, exists, and authorities have yet to find the caller. However, Texas Rangers are pursuing a Colorado woman as a "person of interest" regarding the phone calls that touched off the raid.

Authorities on Friday said a search of Rozita Swinton's home in Colorado Springs resulted in evidence that possibly links her to phone calls made about the YFZ ranch. Swinton, 33, has been charged in Colorado with false reporting to authorities, but police said that the arrest was not directly related to the Texas case.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/20/polygamy.sect/index.html

calmus

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2008, 11:02:51 PM »


You really are a douche. Any right-minded human being could see that making women and children suffer (taking children away from mothers) for the what are basically the sins of the fathers is fucked up. And that's exactly what's happening here.  But all you've got to say is "Figures  ::)"

w8tlftr

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 05:32:49 AM »
As much as I despise the ACLU at times they do keep an eye on the government.

Since most Americans are too apathetic or busy watching American Idol we need them.

drkaje

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 06:08:54 AM »
Funny, they scoff at the laws, live in a cult and probably scam the govt but that's totally fine with the ACLU. No surprise since these are the same people who vigorously defend NAMBLA. Bad enough these people are retards but the ACLU making political mileage off their suffering will probably make things worse.

These brainwashed nitwits will end up in another cult making more babies at the end of the day.

calmus

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2008, 04:17:02 PM »
Funny, they scoff at the laws, live in a cult and probably scam the govt but that's totally fine with the ACLU. No surprise since these are the same people who vigorously defend NAMBLA. Bad enough these people are retards but the ACLU making political mileage off their suffering will probably make things worse.

These brainwashed nitwits will end up in another cult making more babies at the end of the day.

How about you post after you figure out what it is the ACLU can do?  ::)

It's not their purpose to police FLDS, but I guess that point's too subtle for you.

Maybe you can use w8lftr's post to set you in the right direction.

drkaje

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2008, 05:27:23 PM »
How about you post after you figure out what it is the ACLU can do?  ::)

It's not their purpose to police FLDS, but I guess that point's too subtle for you.

Maybe you can use w8lftr's post to set you in the right direction.

I'm slow today. :) Perhaps you can explain how they choose cases. How exactly would sending brainwashed kids to their brainwashed parents be a good thing? I will read your answer real slow and look up any big words.

Please don't give me the standard "ACLU(NAMBLA) is needed to check the govornment's power, especially in extreme cases" anti-govt response. I'd like to read something more creative, if you will.

Dos Equis

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2008, 07:39:36 PM »
Funny, they scoff at the laws, live in a cult and probably scam the govt but that's totally fine with the ACLU. No surprise since these are the same people who vigorously defend NAMBLA. Bad enough these people are retards but the ACLU making political mileage off their suffering will probably make things worse.

These brainwashed nitwits will end up in another cult making more babies at the end of the day.

Correct.  Have you seen interviews of the women?  Scary.  When asked whether girls are forced to marry, they refuse to answer.  Bunch of sick perverts and pedophiles.  Why wouldn't the ACLU be all over this after their NAMBLA defense?  Not surprised at all.   

Straw Man

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2008, 09:34:25 PM »
Correct.  Have you seen interviews of the women?  Scary.  When asked whether girls are forced to marry, they refuse to answer.  Bunch of sick perverts and pedophiles.  Why wouldn't the ACLU be all over this after their NAMBLA defense?  Not surprised at all.   

christian based brainwashing and mind control at its best

w8tlftr

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2008, 03:15:18 AM »
Correct.  Have you seen interviews of the women?  Scary.  When asked whether girls are forced to marry, they refuse to answer.  Bunch of sick perverts and pedophiles.  Why wouldn't the ACLU be all over this after their NAMBLA defense?  Not surprised at all.   

I (hopefully) think all of us here can agree that what was happening INSIDE the polygamist compound was wrong and despicable. However, from what I've read and heard on the news the issue is whether or not the police had sufficient probable cause to raid the compound. It has now been brought to the attention of the authorities that the woman who called the police wasn't even in the compound and has a history of false reports.

Set aside the polygamy issue for a second and take a look at the bigger picture.

If there were any laws broken (and it looks like there probably was) and the police broke the law and violated the rights of the American citizens inside that compound then the prosecution's case has been jeopardized.


drkaje

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 06:09:21 AM »
I (hopefully) think all of us here can agree that what was happening INSIDE the polygamist compound was wrong and despicable. However, from what I've read and heard on the news the issue is whether or not the police had sufficient probable cause to raid the compound. It has now been brought to the attention of the authorities that the woman who called the police wasn't even in the compound and has a history of false reports.

Set aside the polygamy issue for a second and take a look at the bigger picture.

If there were any laws broken (and it looks like there probably was) and the police broke the law and violated the rights of the American citizens inside that compound then the prosecution's case has been jeopardized.



Ohhhh, so they should have kept marrying and abusing girls until a proper case was built. Thank you for explaining the NAMBLAACLU mission to me.

w8tlftr

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 07:32:17 AM »
Ohhhh, so they should have kept marrying and abusing girls until a proper case was built. Thank you for explaining the NAMBLAACLU mission to me.

Thanks for seeing the big picture.

Now all those scumbag pedophiles have a greater chance of getting away with the crimes they committed.

drkaje

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2008, 07:58:03 AM »
I don't care if pedophiles rights are violated. How exactly does that fit into the bigger picture?

w8tlftr

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2008, 08:07:31 AM »
I don't care if pedophiles rights are violated. How exactly does that fit into the bigger picture?

Because if the police don't follow procedure and violate the rights of the accused then the bad guys get away on technicalities.

I want pedos in prison just as bad as you do, drkaje.


drkaje

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2008, 10:53:48 AM »
Because if the police don't follow procedure and violate the rights of the accused then the bad guys get away on technicalities.

I want pedos in prison just as bad as you do, drkaje.



Balancing due process versus children being abused is just not a cause they should have undertaken. I'll pretty much always associate them with NAMBLA and find it telling they're associated with another high-profile case where children abused. I wouldn't be surprised if the organisation were started by a pederast. :)

The Govt should go even further and add pedos to the Patriot Act under weapons of ass destruction.

Dos Equis

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2008, 11:35:23 AM »
I (hopefully) think all of us here can agree that what was happening INSIDE the polygamist compound was wrong and despicable. However, from what I've read and heard on the news the issue is whether or not the police had sufficient probable cause to raid the compound. It has now been brought to the attention of the authorities that the woman who called the police wasn't even in the compound and has a history of false reports.

Set aside the polygamy issue for a second and take a look at the bigger picture.

If there were any laws broken (and it looks like there probably was) and the police broke the law and violated the rights of the American citizens inside that compound then the prosecution's case has been jeopardized.



Yes the police need to have probable cause, but I can't simply set aside the polygamy issue.  Or the rape issue.  Or the pedophilia issue.  Let's assume the girl who called and reported these perverts was not really in the compound.  At the end of the day, what difference does that make?  Were they supposed to wait for a "real" victim to come forward before exposing these people? 

I'll be very surprised if any sort of problem with the search of the compound prevents the prosecution of people for rape, polygamy, etc.  If the cops broke the law, then punish the cops, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  The people in the compound who were exploiting and abusing children need to be locked up. 

Dos Equis

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2008, 11:37:18 AM »
Balancing due process versus children being abused is just not a cause they should have undertaken. I'll pretty much always associate them with NAMBLA and find it telling they're associated with another high-profile case where children abused. I wouldn't be surprised if the organisation were started by a pederast. :)

The Govt should go even further and add pedos to the Patriot Act under weapons of ass destruction.

 :-\

Former Head of Virginia ACLU Arrested on Child Pornography Charges
Charles Rust-Tierney, Age 51, is Currently a Youth Sports Coach
 
By Eric Fleming, published Feb 24, 2007

Charles Rust-Tierney, age 51, a former president of the Virginia chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), was arrested Friday by federal agents, for allegedly possessing child pornography. Rust-Tierney, according to ABC News, which has seen a copy of the criminal complaint, allegedly used his personal email address and credit card in order to obtain access to a child pornography website.

. . .

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/159994/former_head_of_virginia_aclu_arrested.html

240 is Back

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2008, 11:41:54 AM »
ACLU can be a bunch of drama queen bitches.

But

They keeps repubs AND dems honest about abusing rights.

They kept clinton honest and they kept bush honest and they'll keep obama/mccain honest.

We need them, and if you disagree, you're ignorant.

drkaje

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2008, 12:20:49 PM »
ACLU can be a bunch of drama queen bitches.

But

They keeps repubs AND dems honest about abusing rights.

They kept clinton honest and they kept bush honest and they'll keep obama/mccain honest.

We need them, and if you disagree, you're ignorant.

:-\

Former Head of Virginia ACLU Arrested on Child Pornography Charges
Charles Rust-Tierney, Age 51, is Currently a Youth Sports Coach
 
By Eric Fleming, published Feb 24, 2007

Charles Rust-Tierney, age 51, a former president of the Virginia chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), was arrested Friday by federal agents, for allegedly possessing child pornography. Rust-Tierney, according to ABC News, which has seen a copy of the criminal complaint, allegedly used his personal email address and credit card in order to obtain access to a child pornography website.

. . .

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/159994/former_head_of_virginia_aclu_arrested.html

Need I say more?

Fallshinewebdesign,

No one has ever kept a polititian honest.... especially not a lawyer.:)

240 is Back

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2008, 12:42:48 PM »
not honest - but unable to shut down rights completely, or abuse freely.

every politician abuses power to some degree, even if small.

ACLU helps those small cases which 1) address small abuses before them become big, and 2) bring light to problems that fall thru cracks.

Straw Man

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2008, 01:02:27 PM »
:-\

Former Head of Virginia ACLU Arrested on Child Pornography Charges
Charles Rust-Tierney, Age 51, is Currently a Youth Sports Coach
 
By Eric Fleming, published Feb 24, 2007

Charles Rust-Tierney, age 51, a former president of the Virginia chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), was arrested Friday by federal agents, for allegedly possessing child pornography. Rust-Tierney, according to ABC News, which has seen a copy of the criminal complaint, allegedly used his personal email address and credit card in order to obtain access to a child pornography website.

. . .

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/159994/former_head_of_virginia_aclu_arrested.html

 :-\   there are obviously weirdos right, left and center

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/29/us/29florida.html


September 29, 2007
Town Is Shaken After Prosecutor’s Arrest in a Child-Sex Sting
By ABBY GOODNOUGH
GULF BREEZE, Fla., Sept. 25 — To neighbors here, J. D. Roy Atchison was a deft federal prosecutor, an involved father and a devoted volunteer, coaching girls’ softball and basketball teams year in and year out.

His wife is a popular science teacher; his youngest daughter, an honors student who was on her high school homecoming court last year. Their house, with rocking chairs on the porch, oaks in the yard and a wrought-iron fence, is among the prettiest in town.

But in an instant last week, the community pillar became an object of community loathing. Mr. Atchison, 53, was arrested getting off a plane in Detroit on Sept. 16 and charged with the unthinkable. The authorities there said he was carrying a doll and petroleum jelly, and that he had arranged with an undercover agent to have sex with a 5-year-old girl.

Dos Equis

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2008, 01:25:43 PM »
:-\   there are obviously weirdos right, left and center


True.

Dos Equis

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2008, 09:18:52 PM »
31 of 53 teen girls at FLDS ranch are pregnant or had baby
MICHELLE ROBERTS | April 28, 2008 09:14 PM EST | 
 
SAN ANTONIO — More than half the teenage girls taken from a polygamist compound in west Texas have children or are pregnant, state officials said Monday.

A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3 1/2 weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. He didn't specify how many are pregnant.

"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said.

State officials took custody of all 463 children at the ranch controlled by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, saying a pattern of teen girls forced into underage "spiritual" marriages and sex with much older men created an unsafe environment for the sect's children.

Under Texas law, children under the age of 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult. A girl can get married with parental permission at 16, but none of these girls is believed to have a legal marriage under state law.

State officials said earlier that they had found girls who were pregnant or had children of their own at the ranch, but they had not provided more than rough estimates until Monday.

Church officials have denied that any children were abused at the ranch and say the state's actions are a form of religious persecution.

FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said he does not believe the CPS count is accurate. He said that from talking to ranch residents, he believes at least 17 of the girls may actually be adults but have been labeled by CPS as minors.

Agency officials have called into question claims of adulthood among the girls since the raid and have in some cases disputed documentation provided, saying the girls look younger than 18. Because many FLDS members share similar names and have complicated family relationships, identifying all of the children taken into custody has been a challenge.

"I do have serious questions about how they are determining age in there," said Parker, who is trying to get a better count from FLDS families.

He noted though that since law enforcement confiscated every document that might show family relationships as part of its weeklong raid, the sect is at a disadvantage in proving names and ages.

The latest information from CPS comes with "absolutely nothing to back it up other than it's coming from them, and they think we should trust them," Parker said.

All the children are supposed to get individual hearings before June 5 to help determine whether they'll stay in state custody or that parents may be able to take steps to regain custody of their children.

Civil-liberties groups and lawyers for the children have criticized the state for sweeping all the children, from nursing infants to teen boys, into foster care when only teen girls are alleged to have been sexually abused.

No one has been charged since the raid, which was prompted by a series of calls to a domestic abuse hotline, purportedly from a 16-year-old forced into a marriage recognized only by the sect with a man three times her age. That girl has not been found and authorities are investigating whether the call was a hoax.

On Monday, CPS also revised its total count of children in state custody to 463, up one from Friday. Azar said the change resulted from finally getting the children out of the San Angelo Coliseum and into foster facilities around the state, where they were able to get a more accurate count.

Of those 463 children, 250 are girls and 213 are boys. Children 13 and younger are about evenly split _ 197 girls and 196 boys _ but there are only 17 boys aged 14 to 17 compared with the 53 girls in that age range.

Azar said the numbers could still change slightly because authorities have not seen documentation on all the children and have struggled to positively identify everyone.

On Monday, all were assigned caseworkers, who will work only on FLDS cases.

The sect, which broke from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints more than a century ago, believes polygamy brings glorification in heaven. Its leader, Warren Jeffs, is revered as a prophet. Jeffs was convicted last year in Utah of forcing a 14-year-old girl into marriage with an older cousin.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/28/31-of-53-teen-girls-at-fl_1_n_99097.html

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2008, 09:22:34 PM »
I (hopefully) think all of us here can agree that what was happening INSIDE the polygamist compound was wrong and despicable. However, from what I've read and heard on the news the issue is whether or not the police had sufficient probable cause to raid the compound. It has now been brought to the attention of the authorities that the woman who called the police wasn't even in the compound and has a history of false reports.

Set aside the polygamy issue for a second and take a look at the bigger picture.

If there were any laws broken (and it looks like there probably was) and the police broke the law and violated the rights of the American citizens inside that compound then the prosecution's case has been jeopardized.

It's refreshing to see your intelligent posts.

Keep up the good work.
S

calmus

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2008, 09:56:59 PM »
I'm slow today. :) Perhaps you can explain how they choose cases. How exactly would sending brainwashed kids to their brainwashed parents be a good thing? I will read your answer real slow and look up any big words.

Please don't give me the standard "ACLU(NAMBLA) is needed to check the govornment's power, especially in extreme cases" anti-govt response. I'd like to read something more creative, if you will.

I'm not sure you need a dictionary for this... but you certainly need a civics lesson.  :)

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Re: ACLU weighs in on Texas polygamist custody case
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2008, 07:06:29 AM »
I (hopefully) think all of us here can agree that what was happening INSIDE the polygamist compound was wrong and despicable. However, from what I've read and heard on the news the issue is whether or not the police had sufficient probable cause to raid the compound. It has now been brought to the attention of the authorities that the woman who called the police wasn't even in the compound and has a history of false reports.

Set aside the polygamy issue for a second and take a look at the bigger picture.

If there were any laws broken (and it looks like there probably was) and the police broke the law and violated the rights of the American citizens inside that compound then the prosecution's case has been jeopardized.


This sounds like the Waco incident (David Koresh) in some ways.  At least as far as probable cause is concerned.