Author Topic: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking  (Read 2571 times)

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2008, 08:42:47 AM »
The problem is that these measures are psased by people like you, voters who admit they don't even go to bars - but they just want to 'help the children'.

#1 - there are no kids in bars to be influenced.
#2 - they should hold the election at the bars so that only those affected - the patrons and the owners - can vote on the issue. 

You have elderly folks and high school dropout college professors telling bar owners how to run their business, when they'll never step foot in these places.  They just don't like smoking.  (i dont either) But I respect the rights of others to smoke, and I sure respect the right of business owners to allow/not allow smoking in their 21+ age area.

It doesn't affect most people in any way.  but locally in florida, it put dozens of clubs out of business.  I suppose it means you're also voting for higher unemployment and a weaker local economy :)

  As a former smoker I say why should people have rights to pollute the air?

  And the Florida bars could just have an outside area where people can smoke - duh!

   Smoking should be illegal.  It is a health hazard to the smokers and those who have to breath second hand smoke, and I have heard tobacco farmers are barely scraping by so no one is winning except Big Tobacco.
   >:(


  Here in NYS they are going to raise the tax again on tobacco.  You can't afford to smoke here and kids certainly shouldn't take up that filthy habit. 

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2008, 08:46:25 AM »
As a former smoker I say why should people have rights to pollute the air?

Smokers in bars don't pollute air outside the bar - ventilation systems are required and work fairly well.  If you're not in the bar, you're unaffected.  If you choose to enter a bar (and 98% of the people who do smoke), you choose to enter a polluted environment.

  And the Florida bars could just have an outside area where people can smoke - duh!

6 months a year, the temp doesn't drop below 85 and muggy.  mosquitoes.  just nasty outside in Fl at night.

   Smoking should be illegal.  It is a health hazard to the smokers and those who have to breath second hand smoke, and I have heard tobacco farmers are barely scraping by so no one is winning except Big Tobacco.

I agree.  But until it's illegal, it does help the economy.  I contend that inside a smoky bar, smokers don't affect others.


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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2008, 08:55:43 AM »
Well if you CHOSE to smoke then do it where it is legal.  :)

  They bitched and moaned here when it became illegal in bars, and I don't recall any bars closing because of that.

 If it wasn't for the big money behind it smoking already would be illegal.  But they have people in their corner.  So they should be happy that it hasn't been made illegal yet and STFU.
  :)

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2008, 09:00:57 AM »
they bitched and moaned here when it became illegal in bars, and I don't recall any bars closing because of that.

In my state, many bars have closed because of it.  I play in local bands and have been in bars every weekend for 11 years now.  I remember how it was before and after the ban.  People have to walk away from their seats and drinks to go outside.  They leave.  Bars lose business and close.

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2008, 09:47:10 AM »
In my state, many bars have closed because of it.  I play in local bands and have been in bars every weekend for 11 years now.  I remember how it was before and after the ban.  People have to walk away from their seats and drinks to go outside.  They leave.  Bars lose business and close.



Thats not so bad.  Couple of drinks at home means I aint driving dirty...another benefit. :D

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2008, 10:44:01 AM »
Well if you CHOSE to smoke then do it where it is legal.  :)

  They bitched and moaned here when it became illegal in bars, and I don't recall any bars closing because of that.

 If it wasn't for the big money behind it smoking already would be illegal.  But they have people in their corner.  So they should be happy that it hasn't been made illegal yet and STFU.
  :)

Good points.  It was pretty telling that the largest lobby for the restaurant/bar groups in Hawaii did not oppose the ban.  Kind of hard to do when the overwhelming majority of the public supports it. 

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2008, 11:57:43 AM »
In my state, many bars have closed because of it.  I play in local bands and have been in bars every weekend for 11 years now.  I remember how it was before and after the ban.  People have to walk away from their seats and drinks to go outside.  They leave.  Bars lose business and close.

Strange.

Is there a complete ban on smoking in public places in Florida?

Are all restaurants and bars off-limits for smokers?

Because I cannot recall hearing about what you're telling us from any other place with strict public anti-tobacco laws.

On the contrary, people the drinking is actually up.
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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2008, 12:05:46 PM »
Strange.
Is there a complete ban on smoking in public places in Florida?
Are all restaurants and bars off-limits for smokers?
Because I cannot recall hearing about what you're telling us from any other place with strict public anti-tobacco laws.
On the contrary, people the drinking is actually up.

nah, not a complete ban on public places - just bars and restaurants.  A few years back.  It was two states - FL and NY I believe - then local municipalities re-upped it when the state bans ended.


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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2008, 01:21:09 PM »
Strange.

Is there a complete ban on smoking in public places in Florida?

Are all restaurants and bars off-limits for smokers?

Because I cannot recall hearing about what you're telling us from any other place with strict public anti-tobacco laws.

On the contrary, people the drinking is actually up.

According to this, Florida does not have a complete ban, even in bars. 

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0386/PART02.htm

You can still smoke in some bars:

386.2045  Enclosed indoor workplaces; specific exceptions.--Notwithstanding s. 386.204, tobacco smoking may be permitted in each of the following places:

(1)  PRIVATE RESIDENCE.--A private residence whenever it is not being used commercially to provide child care, adult care, or health care, or any combination thereof as defined in s. 386.203(1).

(2)  RETAIL TOBACCO SHOP.--An enclosed indoor workplace dedicated to or predominantly for the retail sale of tobacco, tobacco products, and accessories for such products, as defined in s. 386.203(8).

(3)  DESIGNATED SMOKING GUEST ROOM.--A designated smoking guest room at a public lodging establishment as defined in s. 386.203(4).

(4)  STAND-ALONE BAR.--A business that meets the definition of a stand-alone bar as defined in s. 386.203(11) and that otherwise complies with all applicable provisions of the Beverage Law and this part.

(5)  SMOKING CESSATION PROGRAM, MEDICAL OR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.--An enclosed indoor workplace, to the extent that tobacco smoking is an integral part of a smoking cessation program approved by the department, or medical or scientific research conducted therein. Each room in which tobacco smoking is permitted must comply with the signage requirements in s. 386.206.

(6)  CUSTOMS SMOKING ROOM.--A customs smoking room in an airport in-transit lounge under the authority and control of the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection of the United States Department of Homeland Security subject to the restrictions contained in s. 386.205.

History.--s. 5, ch. 2003-398.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0386/SEC2045.HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0386->Section%202045#0386.2045

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2008, 01:22:38 PM »
(4)  STAND-ALONE BAR.--A business that meets the definition of a stand-alone bar as defined in s. 386.203(11) and that otherwise complies with all applicable provisions of the Beverage Law and this part.


Most bars in FL are plaza bars.  Not sure if the law sees it differently.  Most shops and malls in Fl are plaza based too.

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2008, 04:44:43 PM »
Owners should be able to decide whether to allow smoking or not.

I understand that it's bad for one's health, but what about civil liberties? I think most people and the government are too obsessive over the whole issue.

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2008, 10:53:21 AM »
Interesting.  If owners agree to do this, doesn't seem like there is anything smokers can do about it, except quit or move. 

Posted on: Sunday, May 11, 2008
Hawaii studies living-space smoke ban

Isle group pushing for ban on lighting up in condos, apartments


First it was the workplace, then restaurants and most recently Big Island parks and beaches. Now anti-smoking forces in Hawai'i are setting their sights on apartments and condos.

The Coalition for a Tobacco-Free Hawai'i hopes to convince owners of residential rental and condominium buildings to prohibit smoking inside private living areas.

The nonprofit group argues second-hand smoke emanating from the privacy of one unit may affect others when people live in close quarters.

The state already bans smoking in restaurants, bars and within 20 feet of the entrances or windows of smoke-free buildings.

"As laws like this become the norm, I think people are going to start thinking about how, about where we live," said Hye-ryeon Lee, chairwoman of Tobacco-Free Hawai'i and a University of Hawai'i speech professor.

Smoke-free advocates say residential smoking bans deliver financial benefits to property owners through lower insurance costs because of reduced fire risk, reduced cleaning expenses and fewer problems between neighbors.

But advocates for smokers' rights fume at the notion of not being able to smoke in their own home.

"The assault on smoking in this state is incredible," said Jolyn Tenn, founder of Hawai'i Smokers Alliance and a real estate agent by profession. "I think it's diabolical they (anti-smoking organizers) are now reaching into people's homes. It goes against the constitution. It's fascism."

owner initiatives
Unlike other initiatives to reduce public exposure to second-hand smoke, Tobacco-Free Hawai'i's latest effort is not advocating for a law. The group instead is encouraging owners of condo or apartment complexes to adopt such a ban on their own.

For rentals, the change could be made by a single landlord who amends house rules or a lease.

For condos, the change is more difficult — requiring two-thirds approval of unit owners to modify condo association bylaws.

The impact of such rule changes could be extensive in Hawai'i, where 42 percent of the homes are in multifamily buildings, one of the highest rates in the nation, according to a 2006 Census survey.

To encourage more smoke-free residential buildings, Tobacco-Free Hawai'i has obtained written opinions from the state attorney general and the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development stating that smoking bans by property owners are legal.

In the case of rentals, smoking is not a basis on which discrimination is illegal, as it is with race, age, sex, religion, disability, marital status and other protected classes.

Condo owners can vote to change their living conditions whether it be to allow pets or to prohibit smoking. "Courts have recognized that anyone who buys a unit in a common interest development with knowledge of its owners association's discretionary power accepts the risk that the power may be used in a way that benefits the commonality but harms the individual," the attorney general's opinion states.

However, imposing a restriction on what for many people is an addiction — and applying it in the privacy of one's home — is a controversial idea not easily implemented.

Chris Vogt, a self-employed lab equipment engineer who bought a unit in the Wilder At Pi'ikoi condo in December, said he tries to be a good neighbor by smoking with his lanai door and dryer vent closed, but that he'd be outraged if condo bylaws were changed to ban him from smoking in his unit.

"You're telling people how to live," he said. "I'm all for nonsmokers' rights, but don't tell me what to do in my home."

Mark Doo, an owner in the Craigside high-rise condo in Nu'uanu, said an attempt by the board to restrict smoking inside units in his building was an incendiary issue.

Doo, a nonsmoker who said his wife sometimes wakes up at night because of a neighbor smoking, said the Craigside board compromised by passing a six-month trial rule against smoking on lanais. "The board did this very reluctantly," he said.

At the Ilikai, the condo owners association recently banned smoking on lanais, and at least one board director, Ray Gruntz, advocated for a prohibition on smoking inside units.

"I tried to make (units) smoke free," said Gruntz, a retired New York City police detective who quit smoking 23 years ago after developing health problems. "I can't stand smoke anymore."

Opposition to bill
Earlier this year, the Legislature considered a bill to prohibit smoking in units at state public housing projects, and was largely met with opposition.

Dave Kawika Crowley, co-chair of Hawai'i Smokers Alliance and operator of TheSmokeVote.com, testified against Senate Bill 2408 which he called a needless government intrusion. "I cannot believe I am sitting here witnessing such a moronic waste of legislative time," he said.

Honolulu resident Michael Zehner wrote in testimony that he was "shocked and saddened that there are actually people in the state Senate that have such open contempt for their smoking constituents that they would brazenly sign on to something so awful."

Bob Speck, a retired IBM systems engineer from Hawai'i Kai, testified that in his 40 years of living in Hawai'i he had never seen a more hideous bill introduced.

"It strikes at the very basis of our precious freedom," he said in written testimony. "I am reminded of Nazi Germany."

The Hawai'i Public Housing Authority said it supported a safe and healthy living environment but that it would be difficult to enforce such a no-smoking rule.

In the minority among testifiers on the bill was Jill Friedman, a former public housing tenant on Kaua'i who said she was forced to move out last year after a smoker moved in next door to her.

"Having a neighbor who smokes can be as detrimental to a tenant's health, property and enjoyment of their living space as living with a smoker," she said in written testimony, adding that state public housing officials could not accommodate her with a smoke-free environment despite a doctor's request to do so.

The bill was amended by the Senate Committee on Human Services and Public Housing to prohibit smoking only in some public housing areas including hallways but not inside units. After passage to the House, the measure died.

campaign launched
Tobacco-Free Hawai'i has been engineering its campaign for smoke-free condos and apartments for about a year largely with research about the practice locally and nationally, and the legality of policies.

Recently, the organization launched a Web site, hawaii smokefreehomes.org, with information including form letters to help renters and condo owners petition boards or landlords to adopt smoke-free policies. Tobacco-Free Hawai'i representatives also are available to make presentations to building owners.

Earlier this month, the organization held a seminar featuring Michigan-based tobacco control advocate Jim Bergman, who in 2004 organized a similar campaign in that state.

Bergman said Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data show that at least 80 percent of Hawai'i households don't smoke, but that most condo and apartment buildings aren't smoke-free.

"That's the nub of the issue," he said. "You've got a large market demand, but the marketplace is lagging behind it."

Bergman said the Michigan campaign was a success, and produced an extensive list of smoke-free apartments as a consumer resource at mismokefreeapart ment.org.

Also, some condo project developers and rental building owners in other Mainland markets have touted smoke-free policies in marketing materials as a competitive advantage.

A few of the biggest hotel chains in recent years have instituted no-smoking policies in all rooms for similar reasons. Westin, a Starwood brand, and all Marriott brands including Ritz-Carlton made the change nationwide in 2006. Sheraton, another Starwood brand, in February announced plans to ban smoking in all U.S. hotel rooms by the end of this year.

"It's being seen more as an amenity," said Deborah Zysman, Tobacco-Free Hawai'i executive director.

marketing advantage
Still, smoke-free multifamily residences remains largely a concept only.

"I don't think anybody's using it as a marketing advantage," said Ted Walkey, senior vice president of operations for Hawaiiana Management Co., the state's largest residential property management firm.

Tobacco-Free Hawai'i said a survey it conducted last year with the state Department of Health found that 16 percent of local apartment and condo complexes prohibit smoking in units.

However, the survey may overstate the practice if respondents included a large percentage of vacation rental buildings where smoking in units is more commonly prohibited. Zysman could not say to what extent vacation rentals were represented in the survey.

Officials with local real estate firm Prudential Locations said they know of no multi-family residences that ban smoking in units.

Walkey of Hawaiiana Management Co. said some building owners have inquired about establishing smoking bans, but he knows of only one local residential building that prohibits smoking in units — the Hawaiian Princess at Makaha Beach, a 125-unit mix of time-share and resident owners.

"It works," he said.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080511/NEWS01/805110381&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

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Re: Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2008, 01:15:18 AM »
(4)  STAND-ALONE BAR.--A business that meets the definition of a stand-alone bar as defined in s. 386.203(11) and that otherwise complies with all applicable provisions of the Beverage Law and this part.


Most bars in FL are plaza bars.  Not sure if the law sees it differently.  Most shops and malls in Fl are plaza based too.

Well there you go.

As long as you don't have a total ban on smoking for all types of bars, the smokers will just go there.

But if the ban is for all types of bars and such, then it will be a different story I bet.

Then the smokers can't "just go to another place".
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