Blockhead's anti-supplement rant

[gh15]

well i guess if you two can only walk around at 215 clean after 10-20 years of lifting (which is pretty much what you are saying to me) then it sucks to be you.

have you ever looked at tropopin fella when hes not on duretics or go over 9-10%? lots of redness swollen down syndrom look as result of aas gh and insulin ,,,gh15 already named it the down syndrom look that hormonized lifters/bodybuilders get wether they like it or not wether they want it or not,,
you can work 50 years in gym it dont matter see kevin and see many others that really went off when it comes to bodybuilding the bodybuilder rarely goes off even after he is done because after so many yeras on you need the products to keep sex drive and energy etc etc,,then again you got cialis and viagra but they aint no equal to good ole testosterone

when you say 215 clean you mean double digits and bodyfat% and its possible but it aint nothing to write home about and many bodybuilders look like that and yes you give them a look or 2 in local gym but they are no melvins and rays to put it nicely

[gh15]

it rather disturbes me that people dont quite understand the reason for 250lb guys walking aroudn today looking like tropopin and other local nationals,,those fellas are not bigger as result of hard work friends,,thy are bigger as result of gh and insulin use,,they all look the same but they lack muscle development and shape inorder to get the pro card we got in the 80s and 90s,,take those fellas and put them next to samir or tom plats or arnold or kevin or labrada and even though they are 260lb they look like sack of mashed potatos incomparisson ,,

in contrast to what dante said i ABSOULUTLY 100% disagree and say to you that the ONLY REASON the fella talked about here tropopin can maintain 250 anything if he is indeed 250 at single digit is the use and abuse of gh and insulin inadition to aas,,

you people simply do not understand what it is to be 250lb at 9% at 5'10 ,,i can assure you 100% 1000% that you will never see the number 240lb at single digit at 5'9 5'10 or under if you dont use gh and insulin ,,,you simply wont no matter what people with agendas come and tell you

ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT THOSE PEOPLE HAVE COMPANIES AND SELL SUPPLEMETNS ,,TROPOPIN IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF APPROVAL FOR TRUE PROTEIN,,THEIR STUFF IS BASED AND APPROVED AND QUESTIONED ABOUT FROM PEOPLE SUCH AS YORUSELF TO PEOPLE SUCH AS TROPOPIN ,,THE TROPOPIN FELLA WILL ACTUALLY TELL YOU HE IS PUTTING 20 BCAA AND 100 GRAMS THIS AND THAT AND THEN ALL KINDA USELESS SUPP INTO DRINKS BUT YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THER EIS ALWAYS A SELLING PITCH AND THE GUYS THAT OWN AND OPERATE THOSE COMPANIES SUCH AS DANTE AND GETNY ...THEY ARE UP FOR SELLING PRODUCTS WHICH IN PART ARE GOOD FOR PROTIEN INTAKE AND INPART ARE GARBAGE LIKE CREATINE,,YOU FRIENDS ESPECIALLY THE YOUNGSTERS MAKE THEM RICHER BY BUYING ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING WHICH IS GOOD FOR THEM BUT BAD FOR YOU ....YOU GUYS NEED TO THINK BEFORE YOU BUY AND ASK YOURSELF WETHR ARNOLD ATE THAT STUFF INORDER TO LOOK THAT GOOD OR WETHER SAMIR NEEDED THAT SHIT,,YOU GUYS NEED TO KEEP IT REAL AND BE REAL WITH YUORSELF AND KNOW THAT WHATEVER IS NOT REAL FOOD WETHER SOLID OR LIQUID BUT REAL FOOD....WHATEVER IS NOT REAL FOOD IS IN 99% OF CASES PURE GARBAGE AND SELLING TACTIC LIKE IN ANY OTHER FIELD,,

aince gh15 know that this board is the real deal gh15 says it like it iALTHOUGH i have had contracts with companies who sell those shits because the money was good

its just the way bodybuilding for the masses work friends,,but i expect from you to know better and not fall into bullshit selling tactics

[columbusdude82]

gh15, you're so wrong. I was 240 lbs at 12% body fat last year before my injury, lifetime natural. Shows how wrong you are!!!

[turner98]

friend,, if you truly were 240lb at 12% percent you were using a simple deca/dbol stack,,  dieted down you would be 103lbs with 2.5 inch arms,, so you =below average bodybuilder

[columbusdude82]

friend,, if you truly were 240lb at 12% percent you were using a simple deca/dbol stack,,  dieted down you would be 103lbs with 2.5 inch arms,, so you =below average bodybuilder

Brutal gimmick

[turner98]

lol 

[Van_Bilderass]

in contrast to what dante said i ABSOULUTLY 100% disagree and say to you that the ONLY REASON the fella talked about here tropopin can maintain 250 anything if he is indeed 250 at single digit is the use and abuse of gh and insulin inadition to aas,,

Yeah I recall Trop even said something to the effect of "the biggest reason I've put on size the past few years is the 'post workout protocol'". Well we know what that means and it's not just waxy maize. 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I've seen the pic so no need. Dave was only in for 4 months if I recall correctly. He did eat lots of tuna. He made friends with a few guards and probabley got some extra food too. The fact that he had no weights was not even a big deal since there are a ton of different bodyweight exercises that he could do in his cell and get a hell of a pump and that would provide enough resistance for him to keep his muscles from shrinking in the same manner as if he had quit exercising altogether.

The fact that Dave was VERY lean in the pic you mention made him look a lot bigger than he really was. Dave is NO WHERE NEAR as big as he used to be years ago. He is obviously not jacked like he used to be.

Your comparing Dave's jacked pics to his coming out of jail pics.....whats that got to do with anything? Ones fully loaded with all the benefits of good food and lifting facilities and one isnt. You stated that when someone gets off the sauce they go right back down to their previous natural state limit which I absolutely disagree with. He got out of jail obviously on nothing, (with limited food and limited weight lifting capability in there...weighing 240 pounds or so at 5'9" - 5'10".....a far cry from his college natural days look isnt it? He didnt exactly revert back to his college look did he. Are you going to tell me if he was a lifetime natural that he would be able to stand at 240lbs with that same "out of prison" look.....if he was lifetime natural. No, performance enhancement has helped him get to a level that is beyond what he could of accomplished naturally.

[troponin]

Yeah I recall Trop even said something to the effect of "the biggest reason I've put on size the past few years is the 'post workout protocol'". Well we know what that means and it's not just waxy maize. 

I believe my exact words were the lyrics of this song:

[troponin]

To be honest, threads like this are always very odd to me. 

I have a hard time grasping the mindset of a lot of the people involved in bodybuilding.  I'm very, very different than the majority of the people I meet in the sport.  I have many other things in my life besides bbing.  The majority of people here just have a different way of thinking than I do.  To be honest, I try not to think of bbing very often because the people in the sport depress me.  I can say how I feel on the subject, but people will continue on devoting their lives to convincing themselves their failures are not from faults of their own regardless of what I have to say. 

There are many interesting things in the world, and the fact that people are here debating things of this nature is very surreal to me.

[Howard]

first of all friend NO ONE but few professionals and powerlifters is bigger than gh15,,im 2 howies but not as fat as one howie if you get what im saying

now ,,this has nothign to do with gh15,,it has to do with facts,,the fact that you were or are npc judge just make npc look horrid ,,you ut bad light on the judging honesty by saying you know this and that compete naturally ,,

now,,what gh15 is saying to you is that you know WELL that you been into the hormones and so called drugs in the 1980s when no one knew a from b and now days the guys at your nothing to write home about level from the 80s use double and tripe those doses and more products,,

howie, who are you fooling here? yourself ? defenitely not because you know very well that you would never step on stage if did grow to begin with on hormones after intial growth stopped past first 3 years in gym

gh15 doesnt say that professional only use hormones,,gh15 is saying that EVERY ONE THAT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING USES HORMONES AND THAT MEANS THE GYM RAT WITH THE SKINNY LEGS AND AWESOME UPPER BODY ,,,THE BLACK GUY WITH DETAILED BIG ARMS AND NO CHEST THAT BEEN IN GYM FOR 5 YEARS AND ALWAYS LOOK THE SAME YET MAINTAIN BIG SIZE AND LOW BODYFAT% BUT DOESNT CARE MUCH FOR ANYTHING DETAILED THUS REACHED PLATUE EVEN ON HORMONES,,THE GIRL THAT WALKED AROUND WITH FAKE TANNING BAD AND NAILS DONE AND SHOW TIGHT MIDSECTION AND TONED ARMS IN HER LATE MID 30S,,,THE GIRLS WHO NEEVR WANNA GET OLD AND IS SINGLE FOREVER AND HAS PSYCOLOGICAL PROBLEMS AND USE GH GIVEN TO HER BY A FRIEND THAT GET IT FROM HIS FRIEND THAT IS AN AIDS PACIENT  BECAUSE HE WANNA GET INTO HER PANTIES AND INDEED GET THERE etc etc

if you sit and see guys as npc judge and you tell me they are natural on regional shows? why are you lieing to those kids here? what benefit does it give to you to even say this rubbish? i understand if you go judge local countryclub competition or county competition and see 2-3 guys natural that you place in 3rd place out of 5 competitors....they can be naturals and thus never win even the country club competition BUT the lies you give here about regional is crazy misleading in its nature

hormones to the bodybuilder ESPECIALLY COMPETETIVE AT ALL LEVELS..is like water for the human body,,the smallest guys are usually the ones who juice as much as the biggest guys ...they just cant grow so they polish their size wether its due to height or just average rsponse they polish whatever god gave them with the hormone help

with out hormones ...milos doesnt have a business,,with out hormones luke wood would never make it to win a local competition he would probably sit in austalian gym winning mr aussi gym something among the 100 members,,with out hormones ben johnson wouldnt break world record in 1988,,with out hormones armstrong wouldnt win tour de france he was fuckin finished and had cancer the guy was on so much epo and still is american hero by lieing exactly with out hormones barry would still be 160lb skinny black boy,,with out hormones alex a would never get to be chizeled and look like atonomy chart,,with out hormones tropopin would sit home eating nachos and  woulnt step on stage,,with out hormones that moron kid lunch? whatever his name is wouldnt walk around 280lb he would be sitting at 220 in a good day at 18-20%,,with out hormones there would be a lot less people in the gym that are actually bodybuild ..it will be similar to now days in america when gym population is down big time when it comes to bodybuilder because we closed china to a degree,,with out hormones you boards wouldnt have over 15 thousand member and you are talking here about multiple boards,,with out hormones you wouldnt walk around saying this guy or that guy look great and actually go to see him flex,,with out hormones you would be a walking water fountain with midsection at 40 inches due to creatine use that doesnt do shit no matter what scammers tell you ,,with out hormones you would still think protein powder does something to you anabolically while in reality if any poweder does anything to yoru physiqe it has hormones in it ..very easy to put some dianabol poweder especially dirty grades from china that cost pennys and have very low dose of hormone but still work minimally to give beter results than any natural product there is,,with out hormones you wouldnt have the problems hrt clinic have in america because so many guys and girls wanna join them for hrt,,with out hormones guys like phil heath would be nothing comparing to the meso england black guy from this board that i belive eis truly natural,,with out hormones you would have 20 people in bodybuilding show all family members insted of the 100s or 1000s you got now,,,with out hormones you wouldnt be able to present dry sliced physiqes ,,seperation would not be noticable because when you done diet you wouldnt have much muscle left!,with out hormones guys wouldnt be able to walk around saying they are 250lb at 7% ...

gh15 just come to clarify reality and you howie is part of generation where this reality is hard to tell to because for you natural and hormonized is in a way the same thing...what is clen...what is couple pills ...what is low doses...oh i try this igf it is legal ...oh this is just m1t...its hard to actually talk sense to someone that belong in generation that got the shaft closed on them and end of 80s beggining of 90s got punishment and got hormones undeer control in their homeland,,,
you have good intentions but you dont understand that the hormone use is part HUGE part of bodybuilding,,natural guys never win shows,,they never look thick and ripped,,they always look like their girlfriend is bigger than them,,also this idea that natural means oen year off drugs is ridicoulous because inorder to be natural you shoudl never be on drugs period,,never start them to begin with,,

it got to a point today that i see bodybuilders coming to me saying they are natural or clean because their shipment got delayed and they been off for 3 weeks...it got to be very bad and i blame your generation for the creation of generation nothingess attitue twars bodybuilding

Delayed shipment? So, you are a drug dealer?
Good luck

[Howard]

To be honest, threads like this are always very odd to me. 

I have a hard time grasping the mindset of a lot of the people involved in bodybuilding.  I'm very, very different than the majority of the people I meet in the sport.  I have many other things in my life besides bbing.  The majority of people here just have a different way of thinking than I do.  To be honest, I try not to think of bbing very often because the people in the sport depress me.  I can say how I feel on the subject, but people will continue on devoting their lives to convincing themselves their failures are not from faults of their own regardless of what I have to say. 

There are many interesting things in the world, and the fact that people are here debating things of this nature is very surreal to me.

Great post and I agree. Bodybuilding is a fun hobby and my favorite sport, but, I have a lot of interests in my life as well. Getting too serious on these trivial topics cand depress ya, that is for sure 
I am a political junkie and spent a lot of time reading the info on the recent release of the classified UFO documnets from the British Gov. I don't think a drug guru like GH15 can appreciate a guy that is not into illegal steroid use.
I can understand that, if everyone in bodybuilding were like us, him and his kind would be out of business.
Howard

[Van_Bilderass]

I don't think a drug guru like GH15 can appreciate a guy that is not into illegal steroid use.
I can understand that, if everyone in bodybuilding were like us, him and his kind would be out of business.
Howard

What the hell? You don't think Trop ever used drugs of the illegal kind? Even if Trop is honest and has been clean a year the thing is he is very much into bodybuilding drugs and knows a shitload about them. Same with Dante. Both of these guys have been very much into the bodybuilding drug culture (nothing wrong with that).

[DOGGCRAPP]

But Van and both Trop and I agree on this......there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that there is a gigantic difference between the limits of muscularity and bodyweight of a lifetime natural vs what someone who has blasted way way way past natural limits.......and then goes back to being natural can do.

(300 enhanced) - (enhanced) does not equal 215lbs (not unless you absolutely dont know what the hell your doing bodybuilding wise)

I sure as heck dont know what these other trainers are doing but I know as sure as hell my trainees dont fall back 80lbs when they go clean.  If i were some of these other trainers I would start questioning my  methods if your own trainees turn into scarecrows when they clean out. Doesnt seem like what your offering for advice training and eating wise is working very well.....and basically you are pretty much a glorified drug guru and only a drug guru. I dont mean to be a dickhead but if its 95% drugs as you state, why the heck even train hard or eat bodybuilding faire every 3 hours if it means just 5%?

Has Bob Chick been on 20 years straight with no breaks? No way in hell, have you ever seen him in the offseason where he has ever been under 250lbs? No because weight training and eating actually DO something.   

 

[michael arvilla]

 I wish i could muster up enough interest to actually give a shit 

[G o a t b o y]

Mike's typical reply when Laura nags him to stop "livin' the dream" and go get a real job:

I wish i could muster up enough interest to actually give a shit 

[Van_Bilderass]

But Van and both Trop and I agree on this......there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that there is a gigantic difference between the limits of muscularity and bodyweight of a lifetime natural vs what someone who has blasted way way way past natural limits.......and then goes back to being natural can do.

(300 enhanced) - (enhanced) does not equal 215lbs (not unless you absolutely dont know what the hell your doing bodybuilding wise)

I sure as heck dont know what these other trainers are doing but I know as sure as hell my trainees dont fall back 80lbs when they go clean.  If i were some of these other trainers I would start questioning my  methods if your own trainees turn into scarecrows when they clean out. Doesnt seem like what your offering for advice training and eating wise is working very well.....and basically you are pretty much a glorified drug guru and only a drug guru. I dont mean to be a dickhead but if its 95% drugs as you state, why the heck even train hard or eat bodybuilding faire every 3 hours if it means just 5%?

Has Bob Chick been on 20 years straight with no breaks? No way in hell, have you ever seen him in the offseason where he has ever been under 250lbs? No because weight training and eating actually DO something.   

 

I agree you don't lose everything immediately and you probably get a new set-point. But you know I read about your theories on Animal's board a few years back and you said most pros do not go off completely. You had your own theories on how to "cruise" the best way. And recently there was the discussion on promuscle about Cutler, how he goes off for a couple of months and uses a bunch of growth to maintain. That's not off.

Take an advanced bb who goes off for a year, completely off - no insulin, no growth, no nothing and it's not going to be pretty even if he trains and eats "correctly". The reaction from the fans will be "what the hell happened?" If he doesn't put on a bunch of fat the size loss will be dramatic IMO.

Do you think Chick has been off since the Masters comp? With a Rx for "HRT" you can maintain a lot.

[G o a t b o y]

Has Bob Chick been on 20 years straight with no breaks? No way in hell, have you ever seen him in the offseason where he has ever been under 250lbs? No because weight training and eating actually DO something.   

 

Sure they do, but they're not going to get an under 6' guy above 200-205 absolute max at low bodyweight without a boatload of drugs.

[MCWAY]

Gh15 I dont think you should be stating matter of fact statements about people just because it suits your argument. Troponin was just out here in Cali with me a short time ago. His last show was the 2007 USA in July and off.....its now May 2008. Coming up on a year now clean as a whistle but the guy can walk around 260-270 any day of the week with veins up and down his arms and as big as a house. I know many a huge amateur that is 300 on and 265-275 off. Im sorry that Getbig as a whole only can believe that steroids either make or break a bodybuilder but its not true. Maybe for the guys who are hi rep blood pumping bodybuilders who dont put their time in lifting back breaking heavy weights in their training.....those guys disengrate. But not the heavy slag lifting guys who built that thickness through poundages lifted over the years. Do you honestly think that people like Jay Cutler and Victor Richards and other mesomorphic bodybuilders are going to go from a thick offseason 300 pounds down to a paltry 215lbs if they kept everything else the same (heavy lifting, eating etc) and only removed hormonal help?  Not a chance in hell.

Hmmm….that sounds very similar to what Jim Quinn said, in an interview with MuscleMag. While giving a retrospect of his career, the interviewer went over his time with the World Bodybuilding Federation (WBF). When the subject of the 1992 Championship came up, the interviewer stated that Quinn and champion Gary Strydom didn’t look as if they came off any anabolics.

Quinn claimed that he was over and Strydom slightly under 300 lb, when the drug-testing regime started and that both were tested, as was everyone else. He further mentioned, that because both he and Strydom trained with the hard and heavy weights, their size (though both were smaller than they were at the 1991 WBF Championship) didn’t just evaporate as does that of guys who do more “pumping”-type of training (i.e. fellow WBF competitor Mike Christian).

This board uses Tom Prince as its calling card for this very argument....a guy on kidney dialysis who HAS to reduce his bodyweight dramatically or whats the other choice? Or he dies. Hmmm I would say thats a good enough reason to give up all lifting and eating like a bodybuilder and reduce your bodyweight to 185lbs or so. But take a normal mesomorphic beast (and especially one who has been at a certain muscular size and bodyweight for a long long time with chemical help*****and therein is the key to all this) and remove only the chemical help and you will see that person lose some weight and look smoother but in no way disenegrate (unless thats the choice they themselves decide to make).

Then, there's the minor fact that at least one of Tom Prince's shoulders is shot, virtually no cartilage; therefore, his heavy-lifting days are over.

[G o a t b o y]

Hmmm….that sounds very similar to what Jim Quinn said, in an interview with MuscleMag. While giving a retrospect of his career, the interviewer went over his time with the World Bodybuilding Federation (WBF). When the subject of the 1992 Championship came up, the interviewer stated that Quinn and champion Gary Strydom didn’t look as if they came off any anabolics.

Quinn claimed that he was over and Strydom slightly under 300 lb, when the drug-testing regime started and that both were tested, as was everyone else. He further mentioned, that because both he and Strydom trained with the hard and heavy weights, their size (though both were smaller than they were at the 1991 WBF Championship) didn’t just evaporate as does that of guys who do more “pumping”-type of training (i.e. fellow WBF competitor Mike Christian).

Pros have a strong incentive to lie about stuff like this.  The last thing they want is for people to believe they were "all drugs", they need for people to believe it was mostly their hard work, that the muscles were "theirs"...  their egos require it.  So, they tell a combination of lies and exaggerations...  210 lbs becomes "260"lbs, Cutting back from 2g/wk and 6 compounds to 500mg/week and 2 compounds becomes "clean", "I cheated my balls off with timing and masking agents" becomes "I passed the drug test", etc.

[Van_Bilderass]

He further mentioned, that because both he and Strydom trained with the hard and heavy weights, their size (though both were smaller than they were at the 1991 WBF Championship) didn’t just evaporate as does that of guys who do more “pumping”-type of training (i.e. fellow WBF competitor Mike Christian).

Strydom = tons of growth and insulin. Even back then there was an article in MD about Strydom doing this for the WBF show.

[MCWAY]

Pros have a strong incentive to lie about stuff like this.  The last thing they want is for people to believe they were "all drugs", they need for people to believe it was mostly their hard work, that the muscles were "theirs"...  their egos require it.  So, they tell a combination of lies and exaggerations...  210 lbs becomes "260"lbs, Cutting back from 2g/wk and 6 compounds to 500mg/week and 2 compounds becomes "clean", "I cheated my balls off with timing and masking agents" becomes "I passed the drug test", etc.

Unless, they need a stronger prescription for their glasses, no one is going to think that Jim Quinn weiged 210 lb. at the 1992 WBF Championship, especially as his height (6'1").

Egos work both ways, as some people don't want to put in the hard (and smart) work it takes to make gains. Rather than taking a good look at themselves and fixing the problem, they claim it's "all drugs".

Wasn't there a "Steroid Guru" named Dan Duchaine? I don't recall his mantle being loaded with Mr. Universe medals or NPC National/USA trophies.

Strydom = tons of growth and insulin. Even back then there was an article in MD about Strydom doing this for the WBF show.

Would you care to reference this particular issue of MD from 1992?

[candidizzle]

 dante...   dave had acccess to weights in prison. he wrote all about it in his column.   and he ate ALOT of makeral.    plus, what makes you think he was clean while in there? there are things you can inject that will last for MONTHS.. i forget the name of it but van bilderass could chime in i know hes does.    and its pretty well known that paper orals are smuggled into jails as well. 

[G o a t b o y]

Wasn't there a "Steroid Guru" named Dan Duchaine? I don't recall his mantle being loaded with Mr. Universe medals or NPC National/USA trophies.

Duchaine had shit genetics.  You need good genetics to begin with (both base genetics and genetic response to drugs) to become a pro.  You can't just take any gym rat, pump him full of gear, and think he's going to turn into Ronnie Coleman.  That doesn't change the fact that pros would be a shell of their current selves without drugs.   You want to see what a guy with outstanding pro-level genetics but no access to drugs looks like?  Take a look at the bodybuilding champs from the 1940's.  Oh, wait...  don't tell me...  the pros today also have Muscletech, right? 

[Howard]

Duchaine had shit genetics.  You need good genetics to begin with (both base genetics and genetic response to drugs) to become a pro.  You can't just take any gym rat, pump him full of gear, and think he's going to turn into Ronnie Coleman.  That doesn't change the fact that pros would be a shell of their current selves without drugs.   You want to see what a guy with outstanding pro-level genetics but no access to drugs looks like?  Take a look at the bodybuilding champs from the 1940's.  Oh, wait...  don't tell me...  the pros today also have Muscletech, right? 

Good post Goat. I think the real issue here is NOT drugs but what a great physique really is.
I respect the modern pros physique and am a fan of the sport. But, I prefer a more scaled down physique with classic lines and flow. In my humble opinion, the current pros are "too massive" and have a distorted body line.