Author Topic: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama  (Read 1938 times)

headhuntersix

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One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« on: May 19, 2008, 09:30:39 AM »
Barack Obama gave an interesting description of Iran and the threat it poses to the United States and our national interests at an appearance in Oregon last night. “They don’t pose a serious threat to us in the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us,” Obama told a cheering audience, explaining why he doesn’t think we need to worry about “tiny” countries like Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, and Iran. Obama also displays a weird sense of history when he suggests that the Berlin Wall fell because we engaged Mikhail Gorbachev:

Wow. Where to begin with this silliness?
Let’s start with the Soviet Union. We talked with the Soviet Union because they also had nuclear weapons. Obama seems to forget that the entire point of our Iran policy is to prevent being put in the position of having to cut deals with a terrorist-supporting, radical Islamist non-rational state. When the enemy already has the capability of destroying you several times over, negotiations are needed to keep one side from initiating a war. Only an idiot would think that the negotiations intended on disarming the Soviets, or they us. The same dynamic applies to our engagement with Mao Zedong and Red China; Mao was smart enough to hold himself out as a potential partner in a power balance against the Soviets.
The Soviet Union collapsed economically; they did not just decide to capitulate. The Berlin Wall did not fall as a result of negotiations, but because the regime propping it up ceased to exist. Why did the Soviet Union collapse? Because Ronald Reagan won an economic war with Moscow, forcing it to spend more and more and falling further and further behind. The Strategic Defense Initiative provided the coup de grace to the Soviets, who knew they could never match us in missile defense, and tried negotiating an end to the economic war instead, with disastrous results.
That would be the same SDI that Democrats staunchly opposed, sneeringly called “Star Wars” and proclaiming it a threat to peaceful coexistence. They wanted a decades-long series of summits instead of the end of communism, which sounds strikingly familiar in Obama’s speech. Reagan had to fight the Democrats to beat the Soviets, not through presidential-level diplomacy but through economic isolation and military strength.
Listen to Obama talk about the “common interests” supposedly shared between the US and the Iranian mullahcracy. What interests would those be? The destruction of Israel, the denial of the Holocaust, the financial and military support of Hamas and Hezbollah, or the killing of American soldiers in Iraq? And please point out the presidential-level, unconditional contacts that brought down the Berlin Wall. Our “common interests” didn’t exist between the East German and American governments; they existed between the people of East Germany and America in the promise of real freedom. When the Soviet power structure imploded, it was the people of East Germany who tore down the wall, not Mikhail Gorbachev, who watched it happen impotently.
Furthermore, the danger in Iranian nuclear weapons has nothing to do with the capacity of its Shahab-3 ballistic missiles. Iran’s sponsorship of terrorist organizations will allow them to partner with any small group of lunatics who want to smuggle a nuclear weapon into any Western city — London, Rome, Washington DC, Los Angeles, take your pick. That’s the problem with nuclear proliferation; it doesn’t take a large army to threaten annihilation any longer, which is why we work so hard to keep those weapons out of the hands of non-rational actors like Iran. The Soviets may have been evil, but they were rational, and we could count on their desire to survive to rely on the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction. The Iranians believe that a worldwide conflagration will have Allah deliver the world to Islam, so a nuclear exchange may fall within their policy, and that’s assuming we could establish their culpability for a sneak nuclear attack to the extent where a President Obama would order a nuclear reprisal.
This speech reveals Obama to have no grasp of history, no grasp of strategic implications of a nuclear Iran, and no clue how to secure the nation and handle foreign policy.
L

240 is Back

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2008, 09:32:02 AM »
I dont like obama.
I don't like mccain.
I don't like hilary.

Fury

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2008, 09:33:07 AM »
Great point. Too bad you're going to get bombarded by morons claiming that a state that blatantly supports multiple terrorist organizations and finances the Shiite militias is deserving of negotiations and nuclear weapons.  ::)

240 is Back

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2008, 09:34:24 AM »
Barack Obama gave an interesting description of Iran and the threat it poses to the United States and our national interests at an appearance in Oregon last night. “They don’t pose a serious threat to us in the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us

Russia could launch hundreds of ICBMs with nuke payloads on us in a whim if Gorbachev woke up in a bad mood one day.

Iran can't.  Sure they're a threat, but not at the same level.  

Earlier this year, Rudy Guiliani called Iran a 'paper tiger' and said their only threat is oil control. Was Rudy wrong?

headhuntersix

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2008, 09:37:26 AM »
Obama suggests that Iran isn’t a real threat because they only spend “1/100th” of what we spend on defense. Not only does that make it sound like the US is a much greater threat to world peace, but it ignores the entire issue of asymmetrical warfare. How much does al-Qaeda spend on its attacks? A lot less than Iran, I’d suspect. Does that make AQ a much lower threat? If so, shouldn’t we be bombing Iran in the next five minutes or so...

This guy has no clue..Hil would be so much better. If u think Bush fucked us up, wait until this guy takes ur cash, gives it to the UN, takes ur guns, ur SUV's and dictates to u what u can eat and where u can smoke.  The biggest disaster ever on the heels of 8 years of GWB.


The blog I got this from makes great points... Iran/Terrorists are completely different then Iran. Obama is a Super Lib. 240 u can either not vote or vote for the guy who won't take ur cash or ur guns. Hil can have her healthcare..but I'm not feeding Africa. If Barry wants my guns he can come and ask for them himself.

Yeah he was wrong. Russia had everything to loose by a war. Iran can support terrorists with nbukes, dirty bombs or whatever.
L

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2008, 09:40:26 AM »
You do make a compelling case.  I am so not an obama fan.  Mccain is Bush3 though.  He's given the market, the oil, and 5 trillion bucks to the corps in the last 5 years.  People are sick of that outright theft.

No good options in this election, sadly.  I might just mail ron paul my vote.

calmus

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2008, 09:50:22 AM »

 If Barry wants my guns he can come and ask for them himself.



Ooh, you're such a badass.  :o

Also, way to respect your C-i-C Bush II there.  glad to see the military holding firm.

OzmO

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2008, 10:09:28 AM »
Yes, a vote for Obama means America will convert to socialism or maybe even communism.

IT's A FACT!

Isn't this what it at the core of what  they are feeding you?


I look forward to RED America.

We can have Capitalists witch hunt like the ones for commies in the 1950's

We'll have slogans:   "Better be dead than NOT red"  or "get a clue, don't get caught blue" or "Capitalism is for assholes"

And my favorite:  "Equal rights and equal poverty for everyone is better than Will Smith getting his own OCC custom Chooper!"

Decker

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 10:09:50 AM »
Is Iran a concern?  Yeah.  Is it a military threat to the US?  About as much as Iraq was.

I don't see the controversy in Obama's statements.

Obama was not my first choice for president.  But I will choose him over McCain and his continued Bush policies any day of the week.

headhuntersix

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2008, 10:20:16 AM »
Its a nuclear Iran...a problem...its what they're doing in Iraq...a bigger problme...but its what could happen if they allow nukes, nuclear waste or anythinmg else to fasll into the hands of the dozens of groupos they support. Might not be nukes/wmd's in American but elsewhere in the  Middle East. Mccain inst my first choice either...but better the Obama
L

OzmO

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2008, 10:28:57 AM »
Its a nuclear Iran...a problem...its what they're doing in Iraq...a bigger problme...but its what could happen if they allow nukes, nuclear waste or anythinmg else to fasll into the hands of the dozens of groupos they support. Might not be nukes/wmd's in American but elsewhere in the  Middle East. Mccain inst my first choice either...but better the Obama

How can you stop Iran from becoming a nuclear power?  How can you stop the rest of the world?  At some point it must be dealt with becuase nuclear weapons in the hands of governments like Iran is inevitable.  So we either flatten the place now, or get into some sort of dialog or agreement and welcome them into the nuclear club.

We flatten the place with nukes, America will suffer a nuclear attack at some point afterwards.  It will be years, but it will happen.

So what's your answer?

headhuntersix

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2008, 10:33:38 AM »
Flattening them now...that not much of a choice. I think its too late..the rest of the world are sheep. We're not going to move alone. Israel might. What kind of deal are u going to make. They won't abide by it. The other choice I guess is take the long view and undermine their government. I'm for that.
L

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 10:41:34 AM »
The good thing is that flattening Iran wouldn't affect us much.  That stuff is on the other side of the world.  Their oil deal has nothing to do with us.  The dollar is strong, there isn't a recession.  Hell, I heard that the Lowe's 20% quarter drop was offset by light trading today.  That rocks.  Life is good baby. 

shootfighter1

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 10:51:14 AM »
Exactly, the fact that Iran is working on nuclear capability makes them an incredible threat...no matter what they spend on defence...thats a ridiculous argument.  Scary, really.  Particularly with their government & extremist religion being hand & hand.

"I might just mail ron paul my vote"...240, welcome to the club!

Honestly, I don't like Hillary, but she is much more qualified than Obama in this election.  Hillary should have been the democratic nominee.  Tre, I know your gonna throw rotten fruit at me on this one, but on paper, she is a better candidate for president.  Perhaps if I knew more about the deceptive things she has done (and I don't doubt it), I'd re-consider...but the majority of things I've been hearing from Barack is absolutely the wrong direction for this country.  Why the hell didn't they nominate a moderate?!?!?!

240 is Back

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 10:55:24 AM »
Exactly, the fact that Iran is working on nuclear capability makes them an incredible threat...no matter what they spend on defence...thats a ridiculous argument.  Scary, really.  Particularly with their government & extremist religion being hand & hand.

"I might just mail ron paul my vote"...240, welcome to the club!

Honestly, I don't like Hillary, but she is much more qualified than Obama in this election.  Hillary should have been the democratic nominee.  Tre, I know your gonna throw rotten fruit at me on this one, but on paper, she is a better candidate for president.  Perhaps if I knew more about the deceptive things she has done (and I don't doubt it), I'd re-consider...but the majority of things I've been hearing from Barack is absolutely the wrong direction for this country.  Why the hell didn't they nominate a moderate?!?!?!


One thought... Iran hasn't attacked anyone since the 1700s.  Do we REALLY believe they are going to suddenly do something with US forces on both of their borders (afghanistan and Iraq on either side) and surrounded in the persian gulf?

I mean, honestly... they don't do anything for 300 years, then suddenly with a proverbial gun to their head, they're going to suddenly do something suicidal like give an eager US an excuse to nuke them?

makes no sense.  I know, "he may have loosely translated said something mean about our allies once".  I guess that's enough for chickenhawks to borrow a tril and send 4000 of their neighbor's kids to die.  But if you had to bet the rent check either way, who here thinks they'd really be dumb enough to commit suicide?

youandme

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2008, 11:13:37 AM »
I don't see the controversy in Obama's statements.

If you don't know about the stalemate staus quo between the Soviet Union and the US during the time of Gorbachev, then you won't. Him thinking that we were the result of the Berlin Wall coming down tells me one thing; He does not know jack about history or economics. Little something called economic reforms that brought down the ruskies called perestroika and glasnot, this man is a bafoon.

Decker

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2008, 11:19:32 AM »
Its a nuclear Iran...a problem...its what they're doing in Iraq...a bigger problme...but its what could happen if they allow nukes, nuclear waste or anythinmg else to fasll into the hands of the dozens of groupos they support. Might not be nukes/wmd's in American but elsewhere in the  Middle East. Mccain inst my first choice either...but better the Obama
So far, Iran has tried developing only domestic use nuclear energy. 

Pres. Bush wants Iran to stop creating fissible material and he wants IRan to use Russian supplied nuclear materials.

As I see it, Iran will get nuclear weapons some time down the road and short of annihilating the country, there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

Over the years, as technology improves so will the ability to manufacture a nuclear warhead.  The US cannot police IRan everywhere and all the time to make sure some underground lab is not developing warheads.

How do you propose we keep Iran from gaining nuclear weapons?

Decker

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2008, 11:23:16 AM »
Forget it HH.  I saw your 'flattening' them statement.

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2008, 11:25:31 AM »
How do you propose we keep Iran from gaining nuclear weapons?


Bush appeased North Korea, and they stopped.  Remember, they were much further along than Iran is... they actually set off a nuke in Oct 2005.  Then, 10 months later, they had the balls to fire ICBM missiles at Hawaii on our Independence day.  But, Bush appeased them, giving them a million barrels of oil to stop shooting at us until he was out of office.  

Maybe we should appease iran too?  They are 5 years behind where NKorea was, in terms of development.  They already have oil.  Maybe we'll send them hookers, or some of our delicious afghan heroin?

Decker

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2008, 11:30:27 AM »
If you don't know about the stalemate staus quo between the Soviet Union and the US during the time of Gorbachev, then you won't. Him thinking that we were the result of the Berlin Wall coming down tells me one thing; He does not know jack about history or economics. Little something called economic reforms that brought down the ruskies called perestroika and glasnot, this man is a bafoon.
I'm not sure what you are saying.  I get the impression that Obama was talking about the necessity of engaging one's enemies in arbitration so that we don't have a bunch of Francis Sawyer politico types threatening the lives/existence of every potential foe.

I don't know the exact quote of Obama and neither do you.  I think the guy paraphrasing Obama wanted to go on some straw tirade and he did.

The Soviet Union fell b/c of US policies started in 1945.  The Soviet Union could not match the expenditures of empire that the US paid out.  That's greatly oversimplifying it but its a decent summary.

Decker

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2008, 11:36:46 AM »

Bush appeased North Korea, and they stopped.  Remember, they were much further along than Iran is... they actually set off a nuke in Oct 2005.  Then, 10 months later, they had the balls to fire ICBM missiles at Hawaii on our Independence day.  But, Bush appeased them, giving them a million barrels of oil to stop shooting at us until he was out of office.  

Maybe we should appease iran too?  They are 5 years behind where NKorea was, in terms of development.  They already have oil.  Maybe we'll send them hookers, or some of our delicious afghan heroin?
Did you admire Bush's sophisticated political statement in Israel?  I did.

In one fell swoop the president of the US bashed "some people" engaging in appeasement of these evil arabs.

His rhetoric was beautiful propaganda.

On a foreign soil to the arab's enemies Bush badmouths "Some people"--technically he did not say Obama.  But through insinuation, everyone knows he meant Obama--plausible and deniable.

He's helped his party's presidential outlook by aligning "Some People" with Nazis--the biggest monsters of his lifetime.

Very effective and very inflammatory to those subject to propaganda of this type.

Speaking of appeasers, here's a good article on how Bush's own family helped support the Nazi cause before and during WWII:

The irony of George W. Bush going before the Knesset and mocking the late Sen. William Borah for expressing surprise at Adolf Hitler's 1939 invasion of Poland is that Bush's own family played a much bigger role assisting the Nazis.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/051808.html

headhuntersix

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2008, 02:21:18 PM »

One thought... Iran hasn't attacked anyone since the 1700s.  Do we REALLY believe they are going to suddenly do something with US forces on both of their borders (afghanistan and Iraq on either side) and surrounded in the persian gulf?

I mean, honestly... they don't do anything for 300 years, then suddenly with a proverbial gun to their head, they're going to suddenly do something suicidal like give an eager US an excuse to nuke them?

makes no sense.  I know, "he may have loosely translated said something mean about our allies once".  I guess that's enough for chickenhawks to borrow a tril and send 4000 of their neighbor's kids to die.  But if you had to bet the rent check either way, who here thinks they'd really be dumb enough to commit suicide?

Um u have followed what they've done since 1979 or so right.
L

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2008, 02:41:50 PM »
iran is not and has never been a threat to the united states.

shootfighter1

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2008, 02:52:49 PM »
Of course not, they just support Iraqi militants in killing our soldiers while denying it publicly.  This is well documented.
Its not like many Iranian leaders hate the US or western thinking... ::)

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Re: One more reason not to vote for Comrade Obama
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2008, 02:54:44 PM »
Um u have followed what they've done since 1979 or so right.

no.  i know they have done proxy fighting, as most nations do, and they do deserve to be beaten up for helping al-sadr.  But i dont think the trade-off, of all the probs that come with an all-out war, are worth a big war.