Bill Roberts, short blast theory. Expiriences, thoughts.

[Luolamies]

Ok so i'm wondering about starting to use that "old" Bill Roberts short cycle theory. Mostly because i respond to gear well and this seems to be the safest way to use AAS. Also by following our old golden rule (which most do not follow anymore) as in time on=time off, you could be ON gear longer per year with fewer sides and over taxing your receptors.

Basically it goes like this either 3 weeks ON and 3 weeks OFF.

Or 4 weeks ON and 4 weeks OFF. (My preference)

He recommends using fast acting gear such as strong orals, testosterone suspension, propionate and trenbolone acetate to name a few. Personally i find this approach very interesting and i'm propably going to start using it sooner or later. I understand that with this kind of cycles you are not going to gain insane amounts of mass (but that's not an issue anymore).

[Arnold jr]

I understand the reasoning behind doing cycles this way and I've known of guys who have done OK doing it this way. But it seems like a lot of unnecessary yo-yoing on your own body IMO. Plus, like I said, I've seen some guys do "OK" I personally don't know anyone who's done it this way and done really well.

When you do this, start a thread and update it every 4 wks so everyone can see how that goes for you.

[Big_Tymer]

Doesnt make much sense to me to use only 4 weeks, thats about the time when you really start feeling it.  Then to come off for 4 weeks, then get back on is just playing ping-pong with your blood levels of the hormone which in my opinion isnt good.  I think cycles should be ran minimum 12 weeks

[Luolamies]

Arnold jr, that thread thing is not a bad idea at all...

Big tymer, it doesn't take very long at all to notice gains from fast acting compounds like the ones listed above. Also the HPTA insult would be minimal as well as estrogen related sides. As for compounds like deca or test e i agree that cycles should be long, so that you get maximum bang for you're buck...

[Luv2Hurt]

Doesnt make much sense to me to use only 4 weeks, thats about the time when you really start feeling it.  Then to come off for 4 weeks, then get back on is just playing ping-pong with your blood levels of the hormone which in my opinion isnt good.  I think cycles should be ran minimum 12 weeks

Agree.

[candidizzle]

 test enanthate, nandralone decoanate, dbol  =  test susp, nandralone phenylprop, dbol

 

or for cutting..

test e, tren e, anadrol, adex = test susp, tren acetate, anadrol, adex


bridge with growth ?

[OTHstrong]

20 weeks on (everything under the sun), 4 weeks off works best for me

[WillGrant]

Cycling aas full stop does more harm than different cycle therories.

Once you go on you should never come off imho , going on and off does more fucking with your system than staying on a low dose of testosterone for your off period..

How you choose to run this off period is up to you and how your body reacts , obviously a switched on endo will need to help you here.
But it may be a ml of test e a week ,every two weeks or every three weeks (how it is recomended to be clinicly prescribed) but hey we arnt 60 yo men here.

A Basic first up cycle of test e @ 500mg for 12 weeks will shut you down hard,pissing round with nolva or clomid for 3 or 4 weeks will not get you back to normal , sure it will help with the initial crash but in reality the average guy will take upto a year to fully recover and in some cases you will never return to normal.How  many of you will cycle once a year to basicly take all the time off to recover and in some cases never recover at all?

Im lucky to have a very libral minded endo who is also interested in bodybuilding.She is quite frank that once you start mucking around with your hormone profiles via synthetic hormone use then to stay"normal" again once you come off larger doses it does more harm than good to take that hormonal crutch away..

Flame away 

[abc123]

Cycling aas full stop does more harm than different cycle therories.

Once you go on you should never come off imho , going on and off does more fucking with your system than staying on a low dose of testosterone for your off period..

How you choose to run this off period is up to you and how your body reacts , obviously a switched on endo will need to help you here.
But it may be a ml of test e a week ,every two weeks or every three weeks (how it is recomended to be clinicly prescribed) but hey we arnt 60 yo men here.

A Basic first up cycle of test e @ 500mg for 12 weeks will shut you down hard,pissing round with nolva or clomid for 3 or 4 weeks will not get you back to normal , sure it will help with the initial crash but in reality the average guy will take upto a year to fully recover and in some cases you will never return to normal.How  many of you will cycle once a year to basicly take all the time off to recover and in some cases never recover at all?

Im lucky to have a very libral minded endo who is also interested in bodybuilding.She is quite frank that once you start mucking around with your hormone profiles via synthetic hormone use then to stay"normal" again once you come off larger doses it does more harm than good to take that hormonal crutch away..

Flame away 

What does she say about the health consequences of staying on for a long period of time (at reasonable doses, i.e. 500 mg or less of Test per week, plus an anabolic or two at similar doses)?

[Luolamies]

Actually i do understand that theory: as in taking heavy dose for like 12 weeks then using HRT dose for like 8 weeks. That way you allways have "something" extra in you.

The reason i'm interested in this 4 ON 4 OFF theory is because i believe that it will get me some gains and without any sides. The one big problem i have heard from many very smart doctors is that when you stay on for long periods of time, the damage you might have inflicted to yourself will not return back.

PS. Nice to see that this thread has stayed on track for once.

[Luv2Hurt]

Cycling aas full stop does more harm than different cycle therories.

Once you go on you should never come off imho , going on and off does more fucking with your system than staying on a low dose of testosterone for your off period..

How you choose to run this off period is up to you and how your body reacts , obviously a switched on endo will need to help you here.
But it may be a ml of test e a week ,every two weeks or every three weeks (how it is recomended to be clinicly prescribed) but hey we arnt 60 yo men here.

A Basic first up cycle of test e @ 500mg for 12 weeks will shut you down hard,pissing round with nolva or clomid for 3 or 4 weeks will not get you back to normal , sure it will help with the initial crash but in reality the average guy will take upto a year to fully recover and in some cases you will never return to normal.How  many of you will cycle once a year to basicly take all the time off to recover and in some cases never recover at all?

Im lucky to have a very libral minded endo who is also interested in bodybuilding.She is quite frank that once you start mucking around with your hormone profiles via synthetic hormone use then to stay"normal" again once you come off larger doses it does more harm than good to take that hormonal crutch away..

Flame away 

Agree with what you say and have been saying it for a while.  There are possible conseqences though to consider if you are gonna stay on for years, mainly to your cardio vascular health.  Now if you stay at 500mg test per month, which is aprox an HRT dose you will be for the most part fine.  But BB doses non stop for years could cause problems down the road. 

And also agree with what you said about PCT, people think they can take a few pills a shot or 2 and they are good.....not.  Like you said really it will take much longer to get back to normal.  Everybody says "I recovered in 4 weeks" would be a ball less pussy if you didnt right?  Thing is none of them get blood work done to see if the test and LH is back up into the mid range, so they have no clue.

The longest I have cycled was 20 months, comming off was not too bad, stayed off for 4 months.  You are very vunerable to injury and sickness in that "recovery" period, I didnt get sick but injured my self during that time.

[Van_Bilderass]

Everybody says "I recovered in 4 weeks" would be a ball less pussy if you didnt right?  Thing is none of them get blood work done to see if the test and LH is back up into the mid range, so they have no clue.

Very good point. And the few who do get levels tested are on clomid or nolva. You should get you levels tested at least a month after getting off everything, not while you test is artificially elevated from PCT drugs.

[Rimbaud]

When you do this, start a thread and update it every 4 wks so everyone can see how that goes for you.

Good call.

[Overload]

I know several guys who have followed this protocol and it was a waste of time, but let us know how it works for you.

Roberts is the last man i would take advice from. The man is a snake in the grass IMO.

Good luck!

[Luolamies]

Roberts is the last man i would take advice from. The man is a snake in the grass IMO.

Good luck!

Thanks man, i'm surprised to see you say that about him. Maybe you got it mixed up. I was talking about Bill Roberts not Anthony Roberts. If in fact you meant Bill Roberts, than I'd really like to know what he has done...

I know one thing about Anthony Roberts and his steroid.com site which botheres me, he sells stuff like "decca pills" which to me sounds like a rip off.

[Van_Bilderass]

Thanks man, i'm surprised to see you say that about him. Maybe you got it mixed up. I was talking about Bill Roberts not Anthony Roberts. If in fact you meant Bill Roberts, than I'd really like to know what he has done...

I know one thing about Anthony Roberts and his steroid.com site which botheres me, he sells stuff like "decca pills" which to me sounds like a rip off.

Anthony was fired from steroid.com recently 

I don't think Bill Roberts has been active on the net for several years but I might be wrong.

[Luolamies]

Anthony was fired from steroid.com recently 

I don't think Bill Roberts has been active on the net for several years but I might be wrong.

THANKS MAN...

[no one]

cycle?

pffffft.

whats that?

when you cycle you are renting muscle. no matter how you do it, this is the one absolute certainty.

test year round.

other compounds can be cycled in- orals for 12 weeks of the year, fina, etc.

i find using a base of test year round, and cycling in other compounds i use less on a mg per mg basis yearly than i normally would running 3 heavy cycles a year, gains are constant, no yo- yoing in weight, no head games that are associated with loss of strength and size and i find it a healthier approach as my bloodwork is always good, with no stress on my liver or kidneys to speak of.

but no matter what 'cycling' theory you apply, there is no beating the curve.

[Overload]

Thanks man, i'm surprised to see you say that about him. Maybe you got it mixed up. I was talking about Bill Roberts not Anthony Roberts. If in fact you meant Bill Roberts, than I'd really like to know what he has done...

I know one thing about Anthony Roberts and his steroid.com site which botheres me, he sells stuff like "decca pills" which to me sounds like a rip off.

Sorry, i was refering to Anthony "hooker" Roberts...

Let us know how this style works for you.

[local hero]

the brit lads in the 90's used a similar style, would be 6 on 3 off or 8 on 4 off.. usualy heavy dose of sus,decca db, then 3 or 4 weeks prop and winny etc....

ive used both styles and much prefer stayin on long term on a moderate dose.. just my opinion tho

[WillGrant]

What does she say about the health consequences of staying on for a long period of time (at reasonable doses, i.e. 500 mg or less of Test per week, plus an anabolic or two at similar doses)?

Shes not keen on the huge doses over a constant period,but I run test as a base and cycle larger amounts 3 times a year.
Where she is comming from and a few others have now chimed in here as well is ,once you shut yourself down you will not be up and running again in a few short weeks it takes along time for your body to get back to where it was if at all it ever does , now if you have more than one cycle in your future e.g you plan on doing this for quite a while then staying on a replacement dose whilst off the heavier doses makes more sense,the other way just has your hormone system all over the place like a mad womens piss.

With the cardiovascular complications , there has never been a long term study done on this and there are studies out there that say higher test levels are good for your heart ..She says to me there is no link between higher than average levels of testosterone and heart disease where my Doctor would argue there is..

She seems more concerned with prostate health when it comes to the use of synthetic testosterone..

I think the main thing is you have reg blood work and be level with your doctor with what you are doing.
I have 4 tests a year regardless and also whilst midway through my heavier dose periods,Cholestrol has been slightly out of whack a couple of times but goes back to normal range once I drop back to my cruise dose.

[WillGrant]

cycle?

pffffft.

whats that?

when you cycle you are renting muscle. no matter how you do it, this is the one absolute certainty.

test year round.

other compounds can be cycled in- orals for 12 weeks of the year, fina, etc.

i find using a base of test year round, and cycling in other compounds i use less on a mg per mg basis yearly than i normally would running 3 heavy cycles a year, gains are constant, no yo- yoing in weight, no head games that are associated with loss of strength and size and i find it a healthier approach as my bloodwork is always good, with no stress on my liver or kidneys to speak of.

but no matter what 'cycling' theory you apply, there is no beating the curve.

Word bro 

[no one]

Word bro 

i read your post on this matter as well...

great minds thank alike.

[Overload]

Shes not keen on the huge doses over a constant period,but I run test as a base and cycle larger amounts 3 times a year.
Where she is comming from and a few others have now chimed in here as well is ,once you shut yourself down you will not be up and running again in a few short weeks it takes along time for your body to get back to where it was if at all it ever does , now if you have more than one cycle in your future e.g you plan on doing this for quite a while then staying on a replacement dose whilst off the heavier doses makes more sense,the other way just has your hormone system all over the place like a mad womens piss.

With the cardiovascular complications , there has never been a long term study done on this and there are studies out there that say higher test levels are good for your heart ..She says to me there is no link between higher than average levels of testosterone and heart disease where my Doctor would argue there is..

She seems more concerned with prostate health when it comes to the use of synthetic testosterone..

I think the main thing is you have reg blood work and be level with your doctor with what you are doing.
I have 4 tests a year regardless and also whilst midway through my heavier dose periods,Cholestrol has been slightly out of whack a couple of times but goes back to normal range once I drop back to my cruise dose.

I agree with you. My doctor does as well.

I have been closely monitored by a doctor while taking high amounts of AAS for long periods, and my health was perfect. once the cycle ended everything went back to normal in a few months.

My doctor thinks any man over 30 should be on HRT and this would improve the average males quality of life. he also believes that AAS do not harm to body in "moderate" doses, depending on the amount of time you stay on. he told me most heart issues are diet and genetic related and that AAS don't do as much harm as most people believe...when used in moderation.

He told me to stay on a low test dose instead of coming off, but i quit using all together so it didn't matter at the time.

[tstmaniac]

I agree with you. My doctor does as well.

I have been closely monitored by a doctor while taking high amounts of AAS for long periods, and my health was perfect. once the cycle ended everything went back to normal in a few months.

My doctor thinks any man over 30 should be on HRT and this would improve the average males quality of life. he also believes that AAS do not harm to body in "moderate" doses, depending on the amount of time you stay on. he told me most heart issues are diet and genetic related and that AAS don't do as much harm as most people believe...when used in moderation.

He told me to stay on a low test dose instead of coming off, but i quit using all together so it didn't matter at the time.

How are your test levels from being off? are you extremely low from stoppin the aas?