old dante

[The Luke]

The thing I find so amusing about these high-protein/low-protein arguments is that people mention "high fat" without ever explaining what that means...

Most armchair-expert bodybuilders (candidizzle, Adonis etc etc) can quote you chapter and verse on the benefits and drawbacks of every conceivable carb source and all known proteins, yet nowhere do I see any discussion of fat/lipid sources.

From my own experience I have found that the three macronutients can be somewhat successfully decoupled from each other. You can (to some extent) treat carbs proteins and fats as separate requirements... once quality protein is eaten in excess in conjunction with quality fats/lipids in excess then it is actually possible to restrict carbs sufficiently to cause a loss of bodyfat without hindering muscle growth.



I've repeatedly seen natural bodybuilders lose fat while simultaneously gaining muscle by doing just that... eating good quality proteins and balanced quality fats in excess while strictly rationing carbohydrates.


Calorie totals aren't really as important as macronutrient profiles beyond a certain point as there is a huge difference between the efficiency of a high carb metabolism versus that of a high protein/fat metabolism.


The Luke

[Bast000]

I don't think people realize how little of the protein we ingest is converted to muscle mass.  VERY, VERY few grams per day at best. 


There are benefits to high protein diets, which Dante has listed here. 
Protein has a high thermogenic nature.  The digestion and utilization of protein burns up a decent amount of its total caloric content. 
To be stored as fat, protein has to undergo a few biochemical processes which also cost energy. 

So the thermo effect is only useful if you eat low carbs and fat, otherwise you'll be overeating.   ..and that is stupid because you'll be suffering eating like that when you can eat a balanced diet and still be getting enough protein.

Candidate, do you realize that many of the posters here have actually used High protein Diets?  I think they would know if they lead to fat gain or not.

[lovemonkey]

I never thought I'd say this, but damn Squadfather is needed here to shut this little bottomtwink bitch up!!

[MisterMagoo]

I never thought I'd say this, but damn Squadfather is needed here to shut this little bottomtwink bitch up!!

he's around. recently went on a little flaming spree on my youtube channel. 

[candidizzle]

The thing I find so amusing about these high-protein/low-protein arguments is that people mention "high fat" without ever explaining what that means...

Most armchair-expert bodybuilders (candidizzle, Adonis etc etc) can quote you chapter and verse on the benefits and drawbacks of every conceivable carb source and all known proteins, yet nowhere do I see any discussion of fat/lipid sources.

From my own experience I have found that the three macronutients can be somewhat successfully decoupled from each other. You can (to some extent) treat carbs proteins and fats as separate requirements... once quality protein is eaten in excess in conjunction with quality fats/lipids in excess then it is actually possible to restrict carbs sufficiently to cause a loss of bodyfat without hindering muscle growth.



I've repeatedly seen natural bodybuilders lose fat while simultaneously gaining muscle by doing just that... eating good quality proteins and balanced quality fats in excess while strictly rationing carbohydrates.


Calorie totals aren't really as important as macronutrient profiles beyond a certain point as there is a huge difference between the efficiency of a high carb metabolism versus that of a high protein/fat metabolism.


The Luke

dude im in 100% agreement with what your saying here and ive noticed the exact same thing

[candidizzle]

All calorie is, is a measure of heat.  It is the amount of energy required to raise 1g of water 1 degree celcius.  The "calories" we measure are Calories or Kilo-calories. 
Excess ingested calories are extra energy.  Ingest an amount of energy above and beyond what your body exerts during that time period, and the excess energy has to be stored. 
It can be stored through synthesis of new proteins, glycogen, or fat. 

I don't think people realize how little of the protein we ingest is converted to muscle mass.  VERY, VERY few grams per day at best. 
If you can convert 20g of ingested protein to new muscle each day, you can expect to add over 320 pounds of pure muscle mass by the time you're 38 years old.  If you're 180lbs now, you would be 500lbs of shredded beef at age 38.

500lbs of muscle mass at age 38 from ONLY 20g of protein synthesis a day.  If you're eating 600g of protein a day, what do you think the extra 580g are going to? (assuming you're adding pure muscle mass at the astronomical rate of 20g per day)



There are benefits to high protein diets, which Dante has listed here. 
Protein has a high thermogenic nature.  The digestion and utilization of protein burns up a decent amount of its total caloric content. 
To be stored as fat, protein has to undergo a few biochemical processes which also cost energy. 



The total process of human digestion involves many processes.  While it would be wonderful if it were much more simple, it isn't. 

There are ways to increase caloric intake without increasing fat storage. 
One method is to alter macronutrient levels by the day.  If you increase your intake of protein and specific fatty acids on days that you decrease carbohydrate intake, you can take advantage of the thermogenic nature of protein digestion as well as the thermogenic benefits of certain fatty acids (gamma linolenic acid is one I've written about)

The resulting glycogen depletion allows for a period of higher carbohydrate intake where excess energy (in the form of blood glucose) can be stored as muscle glycogen instead of being stored as fat. 
Once the body exhausts its ability to store glycogen, fat storage will return. 

This is the basic concept behind our carb cycling approach at Troponin Nutrition. 



There is absolutely no need to produce a study.  Any physiology, biochem, exercise physiology, biology, or nutrition text book will explain this process in the metabolism section(s). 

thanks for saying absolutely NOTHING 

 and oh yeah, degree or no degree, your a moron if you think weight in muscle added=grams of protein utilized.... hahaha... ... again.. "hahaha"..    justin didnt you go to school for this ?? your ignorance is amazing

[Bast000]

so what do you think happens to the protein not utilized Candidate?

[MisterMagoo]

thanks for saying absolutely NOTHING 

 and oh yeah, degree or no degree, your a moron if you think weight in muscle added=grams of protein utilized.... hahaha... ... again.. "hahaha"..    justin didnt you go to school for this ?? your ignorance is amazing

way to read that entire post and, rather than responding to any of it point by point, just picking on one thing and trying to blow that apart.

candi, would you please, for once in your life, just admit you're in over your head and talking to someone smarter than you? this is why you have a rep around here, you refuse to admit that you're getting schooled when EVERYONE realizes it except you. please, just back down. i promise you that, if anything, we'll think MORE of you for doing so, not less. humility earns more respect than misguided ego.

[candidizzle]

way to read that entire post and, rather than responding to any of it point by point, just picking on one thing and trying to blow that apart.

candi, would you please, for once in your life, just admit you're in over your head and talking to someone smarter than you? this is why you have a rep around here, you refuse to admit that you're getting schooled when EVERYONE realizes it except you. please, just back down. i promise you that, if anything, we'll think MORE of you for doing so, not less. humility earns more respect than misguided ego.

      magoo my aunt died today from hyperglycemia because she ate too much protein. 

[candidizzle]

so what do you think happens to the protein not utilized Candidate?

is it theoretically possible for protein to contribute to adipose? duuuhhhhhh   LOL..   i m most sure i could find popstst of mine from waayyyyyy back outlining what wonder boy JH here has said ...  the theoretical pathway.. 

BUT

what i said was "protien will not MAKE YOU FAT"..     

and he just admitted that in his post when he said going high protein was the one way to grow without adding fat.

"boooooom"

protein wont "make you fat"

thats not even debatble

the one point no one has yet answered is, is that whether or not the process of gluconeogenesis is dependant on the availability of amino acids or on the lack of glucose !

answe me that

[Palpatine Q]

way to read that entire post and, rather than responding to any of it point by point, just picking on one thing and trying to blow that apart.

candi, would you please, for once in your life, just admit you're in over your head and talking to someone smarter than you? this is why you have a rep around here, you refuse to admit that you're getting schooled when EVERYONE realizes it except you. please, just back down. i promise you that, if anything, we'll think MORE of you for doing so, not less. humility earns more respect than misguided ego.

Candizzle is a paper tiger.

He thinks he knows some shit because he read it somewhere. What he doesn't realize is that for every study that says A,  there is one that says B.

Also factor in that every person's genetics and metabolism are different. It's kind of comical that someone is arrogant enough to think they have the answer when the answer varies,depending on the individual

[candidizzle]

Candizzle is a paper tiger.

He thinks he knows some shit because he read it somewhere. What he doesn't realize is that for every study that says A,  there is one that says B.

Also factor in that every person's genetics and metabolism are different. It's kind of comical that someone is arrogant enough to think they have the answer when the answer varies,depending on the individual

groink post some more pictures of that woman who looks like about a 6 and try to get some more attention you middle aged fuck

[Palpatine Q]

groink post some more pictures of that woman who looks like about a 6 and try to get some more attention you middle aged fuck

Post a picture of a better looking woman that you actually know, never mind sleep with. I'll wait.


PS  my arms are bigger than your legs

[candidizzle]

Post a picture of a better looking woman that you actually know, never mind sleep with. I'll wait.

groink dont be a fool

[candidizzle]

hahha

epic edit


 if by "arms" you mean penis, and by "bigger" you mean smaller, and by "legs" you also mean penis....     SURE 

[MisterMagoo]

Candizzle is a paper tiger.

He thinks he knows some shit because he read it somewhere. What he doesn't realize is that for every study that says A,  there is one that says B.

Also factor in that every person's genetics and metabolism are different. It's kind of comical that someone is arrogant enough to think they have the answer when the answer varies,depending on the individual

are you suggesting that candi is a Google Warrior, who masks a complete lack of real-world knowledge with a mildly impressive ability to dredge up various articles from the internet?

[Palpatine Q]

groink dont be a fool

Please....make a fool of me  "playa"

[candidizzle]

are you suggesting that candi is a Google Warrior, who masks a complete lack of real-world knowledge with a mildly impressive ability to dredge up various articles from the internet?

i must be one hell of a google artists huh


magoo why dont you preach some of you training theories out here in the open on the g&o....

[troponin]

thanks for saying absolutely NOTHING 

 and oh yeah, degree or no degree, your a moron if you think weight in muscle added=grams of protein utilized.... hahaha... ... again.. "hahaha"..    justin didnt you go to school for this ?? your ignorance is amazing

What do you believe contractile tissue comes from?  

I've said my point.  I've said nothing with any ambiguity here.  I don't post my claims or beliefs.  I'm a definite fan of science and proponent of the scientific method.  I don't get into arguments because I don't make statements that can be argued.  

I stated the general biochemical basis by which dietary protein can be converted to fatty acids and subsequently stored as fat.  
You can choose to believe something else, that's fine.  

To avoid confusion, I stated physiologic facts regarding the process of fat storage from protein ingestion.  


One of the greatest scientists of all time once said that there is a difference between knowing the name of something, and knowing something.  

[candidizzle]

Please....make a fool of me  "playa"

you didnt just read that piece of comedic gold that i wrote?


 how about you post a picture of that woman and then i will laugh at you for thinking you have got "mad game" or whatever you call it.. picking up middle aged women..
hahha... sad part is... you admitted in the open that you asked her for pics to jack off to, and what she sent you was fully clothed pics that showed jack shit. hahahhaha.   epic denial !  

[MisterMagoo]

I don't get into arguments because I don't make statements that can be argued.  

One of the greatest scientists of all time once said that there is a difference between knowing the name of something, and knowing something.  

SLAMMED.

[candidizzle]

One of the greatest scientists of all time once said that there is a difference between knowing the name of something, and knowing something.  

first of all, dont quote me on something i didnt say .   when did you hear me say this  ??

hahhaha

but in all seriousness. im glad you understand that your knowledge of the nam,es of acetyl coa and all that garbage doesnt mean you actually have any kind of understanding of anything

 

justin harris you know i love you and all yoru waxy maize garbage.... dont be hatin

[MisterMagoo]

candi, you claim to be, so far: a training expert, a nutrition expert, a steroid expert, and the best-built teenager on the board who looks better than people who've been training far longer than you.

this leaves us with one question: when are you doing a show? with your unbeatable knowledge and apparently stellar genetics, you can't lose.

[Palpatine Q]

you didnt just read that piece of comedic gold that i wrote?


 how about you post a picture of that woman and then i will laugh at you for thinking you have got "mad game" or whatever you call it.. picking up middle aged women..
hahha... sad part is... you admitted in the open that you asked her for pics to jack off to, and what she sent you was fully clothed pics that showed jack shit. hahahhaha.   epic denial ! 

That's the pic I posted genius

Again.....show us all your stable pimp.

[candidizzle]

candi, you claim to be, so far: a training expert nope. what i claimed is that ou are the opposite of one ! in fact i ask people here for advice all the time, a nutrition expert nope, what i am saying is something very basic... im no kind of expert at all. i dont know those fancy names like acetyl coa   and i ask certain people here for advice all the time, a steroid expert nope. i ask certain people here for advice all the time ! if a basic understandinig of the most popular compounds = expert,,,, then you my friend have some studying to do , and the best-built teenager on the board who looks better than people who've been training far longer than you ive said multiple times i look like complete garbage !!  best built teenager ? LOL, seen stavy's pics ? .

this leaves us with one question: when are you doing a show? with your unbeatable knowledge and apparently stellar genetics, you can't lose.

magoo your attempts are futile your dealing with a person who has no ego only an ambition to better themselves and destory thew false myths and rumors in an attempt to over come possibly the worst genetics known to man kind