Ahmadinejad says Israel will soon disappear

[Decker]

Fortunately, this guy is all talk.

Iran is only capable of fighting proxy wars. He's all talk. He doesn't have the backing of the populace. Him leading that country into a war would be a disaster for them. There's already enough public unrest with the guy, as evidenced by the fact a large number of his party members were voted out of office in the local elections. They've been reduced to disqualifying, intimidating and eliminating challengers. The youth is becoming more and more westernized. And to top it off, their economy continues to go down the shitter. Nothing but talk.

Exactly.

Those getting their panties in a bunch over his utterances are playing into his hands.

[MisterMagoo]

Ever think that is because there are boogeymen?

bogeyman in what sense? that people are "bad"? sure. but the last real threat the united states faced was the soviets. saddam? never attacked us. bin laden? i'll let 240 get into that, but i -will- say that the al qaeda threat has been manufactured even accepting 9/11 as pure AQ handiwork.

That's a very grotesque assessment of Obama's platform. 

Which parts of his platform are repackaged, class warfare liberalism?

the term "class warfare" pisses me off so much.

[Decker]

bogeyman in what sense? that people are "bad"? sure. but the last real threat the united states faced was the soviets. saddam? never attacked us. bin laden? i'll let 240 get into that, but i -will- say that the al qaeda threat has been manufactured even accepting 9/11 as pure AQ handiwork.

the term "class warfare" pisses me off so much.

Me too.  Mostly b/c average right wing suckers parrot the mantra of the financial elite that any tax imposed or raised is an attack on the wealthy movers n shakers in our country.

It's an abomination of the spirit of the meaning of "class warfare."

[headhuntersix]

Christ if u guys would enlist, and spend time overseas this conversation would be over in a minute. Nobody is saying that Iraq is going to invade, but u have AQ pushing for WMD's to be used against the West. The threat is not overblown...we kicking the shit out of the threat. I apologize on behalf of the entire US military for doing our jobs and killing enough nutbags to keep u safe.


Both candidates would allow President George W. Bush's tax cuts to expire for workers in the top two tax brackets and set the estate-tax rate at 45 percent with a $7 million exemption. Obama wants tax rates on capital gains and dividends to rise from the current 15 percent rate to perhaps as high as 28 percent, the rate under former President Ronald Reagan.
The centerpiece of Obama's tax plan is a $1,000 tax cut for workers that would cost more than $80 billion annually and effectively eliminate all taxes for about 10 million low-income Americans.

[headhuntersix]

 He wants to spend $150 billion on a green-energy plan. He wants to establish an infrastructure investment bank to the tune of $60 billion. He wants to expand health insurance by roughly $65 billion. He wants to “reopen” trade deals, which is another way of saying he wants to raise the barriers to free trade. He intends to regulate the profits for drug companies, health insurers, and energy firms. He wants to establish a mortgage-interest tax credit. He wants to double the number of workers receiving the earned-income tax credit and triple this benefit for minimum-wage workers.

[headhuntersix]

The Obama spend-o-meter is now up around $800 billion. And tax hikes on the rich won’t pay for it. It’s the middle class that will ultimately shoulder this fiscal burden in terms of higher taxes and lower growth.

This isn’t free enterprise. It’s old-fashioned-liberal tax, spend, and regulate. It’s plain ol’ big government. The only people who will benefit are the central planners in Washington.

Obama would like voters to believe that he’s the second coming of JFK. But with his unbelievable spending and new-government-agency proposals he’s looking more and more like Jimmy Carter. His is a “Grow the Government Bureaucracy Plan,” and it’s totally at odds with investment and business.

Obama says he wants U.S. corporations to stop “shipping jobs overseas” and bring their cash back home. But if he really wanted U.S. companies to keep more of their profits in the states he’d be calling for a reduction in the corporate tax rate. Why isn’t he demanding an end to the double-taxation of corporate earnings? It’s simple: He wants higher taxes, too.

The Wall Street Journal’s Steve Moore has done the math on Obama’s tax plan. He says it will add up to a 39.6 percent personal income tax, a 52.2 percent combined income and payroll tax, a 28 percent capital-gains tax, a 39.6 percent dividends tax, and a 55 percent estate tax.

Not only is Obama the big-spending candidate, he’s also the very-high-tax candidate. And what he wants to tax is capital.

Doesn’t Obama understand the vital role of capital formation in creating businesses and jobs? Doesn’t he understand that without capital, businesses can’t expand their operations and hire more

[War-Horse]

He wants to spend $150 billion on a green-energy plan. He wants to establish an infrastructure investment bank to the tune of $60 billion. He wants to expand health insurance by roughly $65 billion. He wants to “reopen” trade deals, which is another way of saying he wants to raise the barriers to free trade. He intends to regulate the profits for drug companies, health insurers, and energy firms. He wants to establish a mortgage-interest tax credit. He wants to double the number of workers receiving the earned-income tax credit and triple this benefit for minimum-wage workers.

All of this sounds good.  except the trade deals of course.    Weve spent a trillion on an occupation.......lets put that back on our own grounds!!   Looks like we have the money to destroy another country so why not build our own??

[headhuntersix]

Sure...where is the money coming from...not from my pocket.

[240 is Back]

Russia was no threat..Bin Laden..no threat....nope we're the bad guy. 

Actually, the argument is that our leaders sometimes characterize the enemy to fit their own agenda.

When Bush needs political distractions or a pile of money, his staff uses fearmongering and often, exaggeration of threats.  Remember the Miami 7?   A couple of illiterate dishwashers, some of them actually mentally handicapped?  They had a giftwrapped plan from an FBI informant.  They nodded along and drank beers.  Then they were arrested when Bush needed it politically.  Have they been convicted?  Goodness no.  They're retarded gimps. 

Youtube 'nexus of politics and terror'.

You'll see 20 examples of Bush releasing terror warnings, 1 day after politically damaging news for the repubs. 

[Decker]

Christ if u guys would enlist, and spend time overseas this conversation would be over in a minute. Nobody is saying that Iraq is going to invade, but u have AQ pushing for WMD's to be used against the West. The threat is not overblown...we kicking the shit out of the threat. I apologize on behalf of the entire US military for doing our jobs and killing enough nutbags to keep u safe.

You are managing an occupation that Bush created.  I don't really think that killing Iraqi citizens rebelling against US occupation is affecting US security interests at all.

Both candidates would allow President George W. Bush's tax cuts to expire for workers in the top two tax brackets and set the estate-tax rate at 45 percent with a $7 million exemption. Obama wants tax rates on capital gains and dividends to rise from the current 15 percent rate to perhaps as high as 28 percent, the rate under former President Ronald Reagan.
The centerpiece of Obama's tax plan is a $1,000 tax cut for workers that would cost more than $80 billion annually and effectively eliminate all taxes for about 10 million low-income Americans.

Bush sold the tax cuts to the public on the premise that THEY WOULD EXPIRE IN 2010. 

That's how Bush lied about the true costs of his proposed tax cuts while campaigning for the 2000 election.

Didn't you ever ask yourself, why is there a 10 year boundary to the tax cuts?

I gotta say, that estate tax sounds sweet.

[calmus]

Sure...where is the money coming from...not from my pocket.

oh yes it will.

[youandme]

The Wall Street Journal’s Steve Moore has done the math on Obama’s tax plan. He says it will add up to a 39.6 percent personal income tax, a 52.2 percent combined income and payroll tax, a 28 percent capital-gains tax, a 39.6 percent dividends tax, and a 55 percent estate tax.

Good bye capitalism 

[OzmO]

Good bye capitalism 

There no way a 39% tax will ever happen regardless of who's in the president's chair.

But you can fear spin until the cows come home

[calmus]

There no way a 39% tax will ever happen regardless of who's in the president's chair.

I hope so, but
For the higher tax brackets it could approach that, and in the past we have had extremely high income taxes.

[OzmO]

I hope so, but
For the higher tax brackets it could approach that, and in the past we have had extremely high income taxes.

A 28% CGT is bullshit.    But the way BUSH and company has run this country into the ground, i don;t think Obama could do worse.  i do however think, McCain the Gummer can.

[Dos Equis]

That's a very grotesque assessment of Obama's platform. 

Which parts of his platform are repackaged, class warfare liberalism?

He has already admitted he offers nothing new, so his entire platform is repackaged liberalism.  He specifically wants to raise taxes on people over a certain income thresshold and use that money to pay for socialized healthcare.  I have heard him repeatedly talk about attacking business, essentially pitting "business" against "the middle class," is if we're not all in this together.  Like many liberals, he wants to raise taxes and constantly talks about "the middle class" and "the wealthy."  In reality, we're all Americans, all in this together, and no politician should be trying to demonize any segment of society.  He has the mindset that you can be successful, but not too successful, or the governent will punish you.    

[Decker]

...The Wall Street Journal’s Steve Moore has done the math on Obama’s tax plan. He says it will add up to a 39.6 percent personal income tax, a 52.2 percent combined income and payroll tax, a 28 percent capital-gains tax, a 39.6 percent dividends tax, and a 55 percent estate tax.

Not only is Obama the big-spending candidate, he’s also the very-high-tax candidate. And what he wants to tax is capital.

Doesn’t Obama understand the vital role of capital formation in creating businesses and jobs? Doesn’t he understand that without capital, businesses can’t expand their operations and hire more

I don't think Stephen Moore has ever produced a piece of credible analysis.

From what I've seen of him (on TV) and his work is that he's a sniveling simpleton who would say anything in defense of tax cuts.

I would have to see the numbers he ran before I would accept any conclusion from the "man".

[Decker]

He has already admitted he offers nothing new, so his entire platform is repackaged liberalism.

Could you show me the quote where Barak admits he offers nothing new?

That sounds like rightwing blog flotsam.

Tell me, what new things does John McCain offer?

He specifically wants to raise taxes on people over a certain income thresshold and use that money to pay for socialized healthcare.  I have heard him repeatedly talk about attacking business, essentially pitting "business" against "the middle class," is if we're not all in this together.  Like many liberals, he wants to raise taxes and constantly talks about "the middle class" and "the wealthy."  In reality, we're all Americans, all in this together, and no politician should be trying to demonize any segment of society.  He has the mindset that you can be successful, but not too successful, or the governent will punish you.

Where did this populist streak come from Beach Bum?  "We are all in this together"...?  I thought you were a proponent of competition.

How does Barak demonize a segment of society?  I missed that.  I don't recall him pitting business against the middle class.  In fact, that doesn't even make much sense.

He speaks of middle class and wealthy segments of america, right?  Don't those factions exist?  Hasn't the wealth and income of one of those segments increased some 500% over the last 30 years while the other segment has flat lined? 

Is wealth/income inequality a non-issue or is it a fabrication all together by left wingers? 

[Dos Equis]

Could you show me the quote where Barak admits he offers nothing new?

That sounds like rightwing blog flotsam.

Tell me, what new things does John McCain offer?
Where did this populist streak come from Beach Bum?  "We are all in this together"...?  I thought you were a proponent of competition.

How does Barak demonize a segment of society?  I missed that.  I don't recall him pitting business against the middle class.  In fact, that doesn't even make much sense.

He speaks of middle class and wealthy segments of america, right?  Don't those factions exist?  Hasn't the wealth and income of one of those segments increased some 500% over the last 30 years while the other segment has flat lined? 

Is wealth/income inequality a non-issue or is it a fabrication all together by left wingers? 

I've given you Obama's quote before on this board.

McCain brings solid experience and the right mindset:  cut taxes, cut spending.  Remains to be seen if he will follow through.  He also has an independent streak and isn't afraid to disagree with his party. 

I absolutely believe in competition, which is great for all of us.  I don't believe in targeting business and attempting to punish business for being successful.  We are business.  Any negative impact on business affects all of us.   

Yes we have people of all income levels.  What the government shouldn't do is try and control how much people make for the benefit of the those on the lower end.  There is already enough in place to help everyone. 

You talk as if people have a right to make a lot of money or have a high net worth.  They don't.  People have to earn it.  And when people earn it, the government needs to get out of the way. 

[Decker]

I've given you Obama's quote before on this board.

Did you?  I was not a supporter of Obama's so I may have glossed over it.  I looked and I couldn't find a single quote like the one you attributed him.

McCain brings solid experience and the right mindset:  cut taxes, cut spending.  Remains to be seen if he will follow through.  He also has an independent streak and isn't afraid to disagree with his party. 

And which of these grand qualities is something new?

 

...
Yes we have people of all income levels.  What the government shouldn't do is try and control how much people make for the benefit of the those on the lower end.  There is already enough in place to help everyone. 

You talk as if people have a right to make a lot of money or have a high net worth.  They don't.  People have to earn it.  And when people earn it, the government needs to get out of the way. 

I don't think taxation puts a cap on how much a person can earn.  That's still the province of the marketplace.  I am partial to a moderated meritocracy where a portion of the capitalist winnings is returned to the state for redistribution to those people in the greatest need. 

I think that is pretty smart.

Since the government is the people, I would disagree with your contention that the government should get out of the way of Plutocratic market rigging corner cutting elites.

That's what we in the Royal Navy call a joke.

Taxation based on the ability to pay is also a pretty smart idea.  Don't you think?

[Dos Equis]

Did you?  I was not a supporter of Obama's so I may have glossed over it.  I looked and I couldn't find a single quote like the one you attributed him.
And which of these grand qualities is something new?

 I don't think taxation puts a cap on how much a person can earn.  That's still the province of the marketplace.  I am partial to a moderated meritocracy where a portion of the capitalist winnings is returned to the state for redistribution to those people in the greatest need. 

I think that is pretty smart.

Since the government is the people, I would disagree with your contention that the government should get out of the way of Plutocratic market rigging corner cutting elites.

That's what we in the Royal Navy call a joke.

Taxation based on the ability to pay is also a pretty smart idea.  Don't you think?

Yes, I did.  "Look harrrrder."  Rafiki (great philosopher from the Lion King).

I haven't heard McCain offer anything new.  He doesn't need to.  From an economic standpoint, he needs to be a true conservative, which is better for this country than big government liberalism. 

We already have taxation based on the ability to pay.  "Poor people" pay little, if any, taxes.  "The wealthy" pay the lion's share of taxes in this country. 

But then you have people like Obama who wants people to pay even more taxes, including raising capital gains taxes.  No thank you.   

[War-Horse]

He has already admitted he offers nothing new, so his entire platform is repackaged liberalism.  He specifically wants to raise taxes on people over a certain income thresshold and use that money to pay for socialized healthcare.  I have heard him repeatedly talk about attacking business, essentially pitting "business" against "the middle class," is if we're not all in this together.  Like many liberals, he wants to raise taxes and constantly talks about "the middle class" and "the wealthy."  In reality, we're all Americans, all in this together, and no politician should be trying to demonize any segment of society.  He has the mindset that you can be successful, but not too successful, or the governent will punish you.    

This seems good to me.   I like robin hood...who doesnt??

[War-Horse]

Good bye capitalism 

Actually its an elite form of capitialism.  Just "richer guys" at the poker table....

[Decker]

I haven't heard McCain offer anything new.  He doesn't need to.  From an economic standpoint, he needs to be a true conservative, which is better for this country than big government liberalism.  

So McCain is retread of right wing failures like GW Bush and Ronald Reagan.

We already have taxation based on the ability to pay.  "Poor people" pay little, if any, taxes.  "The wealthy" pay the lion's share of taxes in this country.  

That is applicable only to income taxes.  We all pay the same capital gains, payroll, and sales tax rates.

But then you have people like Obama who wants people to pay even more taxes, including raising capital gains taxes.  No thank you.    

I see.  

So do you think that earned income (through hard work) should be taxed at a higher rate than unearned/passive income (earned largely by calling one's broker or realty agent)?

[Dos Equis]

So McCain is retread of right wing failures like GW Bush and Ronald Reagan.
That is applicable only to income taxes.  We all pay the same capital gains, payroll, and sales tax rates.I see.  

So do you think that earned income (through hard work) should be taxed at a higher rate than unearned/passive income (earned largely by calling one's broker or realty agent)?

Not at all.  At least per his rhetoric.  He is the antithesis of the big government, tax and spend liberals who controlled Congress for about 40 years . . . if he does what he has promised to do.   

We're always talking about income taxes in these discussions.  At least I am.   

I  make no distinction between earned income and passive income.  They're both achieved through hard work.