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Author Topic: The Business of Being Born  (Read 8014 times)
Laura Lee
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« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2008, 08:21:54 AM »


My fiancee wants to have a baby now and the urge is very intense for her!  I don't know if I am equipped to return to that stage in life ( diapers, mid-night feedings, but she is ready now! I don't know what to do. Having 4 steps is not enough for her!

Help!!!
This is something that should be discussed prior to getting involved HM.   Although sometimes even that fails.  My dad and his ex-wife had that very same discussing prior to getting "serious" and also prior to "marriage".  Then one day after they were married 5 years she decided she desperately wanted a child.  My father told her they had already gone through this and he was done having children.  She didn't like that answer (even though it was understood prior).  She divorced him, married someone else and had herself some children. 

One can't go into a relationship thinking they can change the other's mind at a later time.  It's just not fair.
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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2008, 08:35:36 AM »

This is something that should be discussed prior to getting involved HM.   Although sometimes even that fails.  My dad and his ex-wife had that very same discussing prior to getting "serious" and also prior to "marriage".  Then one day after they were married 5 years she decided she desperately wanted a child.  My father told her they had already gone through this and he was done having children.  She didn't like that answer (even though it was understood prior).  She divorced him, married someone else and had herself some children. 

One can't go into a relationship thinking they can change the other's mind at a later time.  It's just not fair.

I thought we had discussed this already, she was very sure (at that time) that she was pass the making babies stage of life.
Also, it never has never been a topic of discussion until about a month ago when she baby sat a friend's year old baby. All of a sudden out of nowhere as we are about to go to SLEEP came "Gary, what do you think about having another baby?" I immediately turned mute, I did'nt know what to say because I damn well did not want to offend her especially since the timing was at best very peculiar.

I just said let's talk in the morning, well that morning has not made full circle yet. I know she is waiting but I am hoping she has forgotten and the feelings has dissipated.

I am looking out for her health here so no one start trippin!
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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2008, 01:53:27 PM »

Well I can say I tried the vaginal birth darling and if it weren't for the c-section...I nor my children wouldn't be to talk about it.  Some people live through experience while others live through someone else's numbers (statistics).

And your quote of "I also have a baby everytime I read some of the ridiculous BS on here!" is ridiculous, especially when you haven't had one to compare too.  Maybe you should change it to "I also have a shit everytime I read some of the ridiculous BS on here!"  That seems a bit more logical.

Well, ...forgive me for my ignorance! Whatever was I thinking? I forgot the world revolves around Laura Lee!
If Laura Lee is incapable of having a baby the natural way, that means that ALL pregnant women in America throughout the world should have C-Sections, and they and their kids would be better off for it. Thanks for setting the record straight.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2008, 02:07:58 PM »

...
The USA has the second worst newborn mortality rate in the developed world.

Take the infant mortality statistics with a grain of salt.  Per the Wikipedia article on infant mortality:

"While the United States reports every case of infant mortality, it has been suggested that some other developed countries do not. A 2006 article in U.S. News & World Report claims that "First, it's shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with reports from other countries. The United States counts all births as live if they show any sign of life, regardless of prematurity or size. This includes what many other countries report as stillbirths. In Austria and Germany, fetal weight must be at least 500 grams (1 pound) to count as a live birth; in other parts of Europe, such as Switzerland, the fetus must be at least 30 centimeters (12 inches) long. In Belgium and France, births at less than 26 weeks of pregnancy are registered as lifeless. And some countries don't reliably register babies who die within the first 24 hours of birth. Thus, the United States is sure to report higher infant mortality rates. For this very reason, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which collects the European numbers, warns of head-to-head comparisons by country." [2] However, all of the countries named adopted the WHO definition in the late 1980s or early 1990s.[2]

Historically, until the 1990s Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union did not count as a live birth or as an infant death extremely premature infants (less than 1,000 g, less than 28 weeks gestational age, or less than 35 cm in length) that were born alive (breathed, had a heartbeat, or exhibited voluntary muscle movement) but failed to survive for at least 7 days.[3] Although such extremely premature infants typically accounted for only about 0.005 of all live-born children, their exclusion from both the numerator and the denominator in the reported IMR led to an estimated 22%-25% lower reported IMR.[4] In some cases, too, perhaps because hospitals or regional health departments were held accountable for lowering the IMR in their catchment area, infant deaths that occurred in the 12th month were "transferred" statistically to the 13th month (i.e., the second year of life), and thus no longer classified as an infant death.[5]

Another challenge to comparability is the practice of counting frail or premature infants who die before the normal due date as miscarriages (spontaneous abortions) or those who die during or immediately after childbirth as stillborn. Therefore, the quality of a country's documentation of perinatal mortality can matter greatly to the accuracy of its infant mortality statistics. This point is reinforced by the demographer Ansley Coale, who finds dubiously high ratios of reported stillbirths to infant deaths in Hong Kong and Japan in the first 24 hours after birth, a pattern that is consistent with the high recorded sex ratios at birth in those countries and suggests not only that many female infants who die in the first 24 hours are misreported as stillbirths rather than infant deaths but also that those countries do not follow WHO recommendations for the reporting of live births and infant deaths.[6]

Another seemingly paradoxical finding is that when countries with poor medical services introduce new medical centers and services, instead of declining the reported IMRs often increase for a time. The main cause of this is that improvement in access to medical care is often accompanied by improvement in the registration of births and deaths. Deaths that might have occurred in a remote or rural area and not been reported to the government might now be reported by the new medical personnel or facilities. Thus, even if the new health services reduce the actual IMR, the reported IMR may increase."

I am not saying that the film isn't correct about doctors pushing c-sections, but find it hard to believe that our infant mortality rate could be the 2nd worst in the industrial world.  This article makes a good argument that a lot of the infant mortality in the US stems from attempt to save premature babies - http://baby.families.com/blog/why-the-us-infant-mortality-rate-is-so-high.  In the US, premature babies are often delivered and doctors try to rescue them.  If they die in the attempt, they are considered an infant mortality.  In other countries, including industrialized countries, these premies often end up as stillborns and aren't included in infant mortality statistics.
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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2008, 03:02:27 PM »

I think OS and the Jagged One need to become birth surrogates just for the experience of carrying life around for 9 mos. You can hand the little one over to the bio parents right after the birth and immediately return to the gym and get back in shape!


My fiancee wants to have a baby now and the urge is very intense for her!  I don't know if I am equipped to return to that stage in life ( diapers, mid-night feedings, but she is ready now! I don't know what to do. Having 4 steps is not enough for her!

Help!!!

The Jagged One?  Oh mister, ...you know I'm gonna make you pay for that.

ps: ...and it's Ms. Jagged One to You!  Angry
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Laura Lee
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« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2008, 04:29:23 PM »

Well, ...forgive me for my ignorance! Whatever was I thinking? I forgot the world revolves around Laura Lee!
If Laura Lee is incapable of having a baby the natural way, that means that ALL pregnant women in America throughout the world should have C-Sections, and they and their kids would be better off for it. Thanks for setting the record straight.  Roll Eyes
You are truly ignorant Judi if you got that out of my post.  Where did I say All women should have c-sections.  I stated that that vaginal is NOT always the best way...as you suggested.  It is the most natural way, but not always the best.  Be thankful your mother didn't have complications and decide that vaginal was the only way she was going to deliver you because "it's the best way".

Going with your theory...I guess I should go around and tell people what it's like to be black because there are statistics out there they state certain things about black people so it would make me an expert.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2008, 04:50:07 PM »

You are truly ignorant Judi if you got that out of my post.  Where did I say All women should have c-sections.  I stated that that vaginal is NOT always the best way...as you suggested.  It is the most natural way, but not always the best.  Be thankful your mother didn't have complications and decide that vaginal was the only way she was going to deliver you because "it's the best way".

Are you done melting down yet? If so, ...go re-read what I've stated.

Quote
Going with your theory...I guess I should go around and tell people what it's like to be black because there are statistics out there they state certain things about black people so it would make me an expert.   Roll Eyes

No, ...going with my theory, you would conclude that provided a woman is not deficient (for want of a better word), at giving birth, a vaginal delivery is the best way. I didn't say the "only way", ...but the best way. In your particular case, due to your inability to do it the natural way, C-Section was the only option you had. My position on the subject is, and has always been made very clear. It has far less to do with stats than it does with physiology, but if you're unable to grasp even that much, ...I'd say that makes YOU the ignorant one.

And people accuse Black people of playing the race card  Roll Eyes 
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« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2008, 05:22:03 PM »



Meanwhile, I think we can all agree we are pleased that C-sections are available in cases like Laura's as well as other life-threatening situations.  Bay's information is very interesting though to be sure.


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Laura Lee
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« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2008, 05:36:01 PM »

Are you done melting down yet? If so, ...go re-read what I've stated.

No, ...going with my theory, you would conclude that provided a woman is not deficient (for want of a better word), at giving birth, a vaginal delivery is the best way. I didn't say the "only way", ...but the best way. In your particular case, due to your inability to do it the natural way, C-Section was the only option you had. My position on the subject is, and has always been made very clear. It has far less to do with stats than it does with physiology, but if you're unable to grasp even that much, ...I'd say that makes YOU the ignorant one.

And people accuse Black people of playing the race card  Roll Eyes 
I'm hardly melting down Judi.  But I suppose someone of your stature would consider it as such.  Roll Eyes

Regarding your statement.  I never said that you said "the only way".  And I stated that "vaginal isn't always the best way.  Vaginal is the natural way, yes, but for some...not the best."   

Your comment regarding physiology is pretty weak considering it was you who just made a comment in another thread about how "unatural to want to squeeze something the size of a watermelon out of an opening that can barely handle a ping-pong ball". 

Btw... I wasn't playing a race card.  Roll Eyes  Sorry you didn't understand what I was doing.  I was talking as if I were something I'm not (black) and have no right to spill out opinions about being as if I were. 

...ok see that even confused me.  I shouldn't have to explain what I was doing, I believe it was quite clear. 

Anyway, all I'm saying is don't be so generalized.  Natural births aren't a "one size fits all" deal.  It may not be best for all.  Idealy if everyone COULD deliver naturally and we had an option to not, then one could say "it is the best", but not all women can deliver babies naturally and it is BEST for them to go with a c-section.  For the sake of the unborn baby and the mother.

End of converstation   Grin
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« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2008, 05:42:23 PM »


Your comment regarding physiology is pretty weak considering it was you who just made a comment in another thread about how "unatural to want to squeeze something the size of a watermelon out of an opening that can barely handle a ping-pong ball". 

I guess you've never heard of a concept called sarcasm.
oh well, ...I'll just chalk it up as yet another area in which you reveal your ignorance. no biggie.  Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2008, 05:50:32 PM »

ladies please...geez
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Laura Lee
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« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2008, 05:50:43 PM »

I guess you've never heard of a concept called sarcasm.
oh well, ...I'll just chalk it up as yet another area in which you reveal your ignorance. no biggie.  Smiley
Yawn.  I'm sure that's what it was.  "Judi the sarcastic wit."  That's how we all know you  Roll Eyes  Oh wait...no it's not.  Wink

I believe the concept you were looking for is called "back peddling or making excuses".  No worries.  We understand.   Grin
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« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2008, 05:53:10 PM »

Ladies,

Couldn't this be solved by mud wrestling?
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Laura Lee
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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2008, 05:56:49 PM »

Ladies,

Couldn't this be solved by mud wrestling?
Hmmmm, I'd prefer jello.  You know, something sweet we could lick off  Cheesy

LH will jump in this in 3 2 1 ... 
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2008, 06:00:11 PM »

Hmmmm, I'd prefer jello.  You know, something sweet we could lick off  Cheesy

LH will jump in this in 3 2 1 ... 
Im first!
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« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2008, 06:00:43 PM »

My daughters delivery was neither C-section or natural.

Was dumped in my lap at 3 yrs old when I married her dad who had sole custody. This took 2 seconds, no medical bills and was totally painfree!

Less arguing about your birth methods, as I beat everyone in best method Cheesy
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Laura Lee
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« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2008, 06:06:22 PM »

My daughters delivery was neither C-section or natural.

Was dumped in my lap at 3 yrs old when I married her dad who had sole custody. This took 2 seconds, no medical bills and was totally painfree!

Less arguing about your birth methods, as I beat everyone in best method Cheesy
NOW THAT IS THE BEST WAY!!!  lol
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« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2008, 06:08:50 PM »

Hmmmm, I'd prefer jello.  You know, something sweet we could lick off  Cheesy

LH will jump in this in 3 2 1 ... 

With all the ants in Fl you'd risk jello?!

A wrestling match probably wouldn't help matters much anyways. I was just trying to lighten the mood.

Best way might be other people's kids... they go home after a while. Smiley
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Laura Lee
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« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2008, 06:14:10 PM »

With all the ants in Fl you'd risk jello?!

A wrestling match probably wouldn't help matters much anyways. I was just trying to lighten the mood.

Best way might be other people's kids... they go home after a while. Smiley
Actually, the bugs aren't bad down here (in my area anyway) as they spray a lot.

But we could always do it inside anyway.   Grin
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« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2008, 06:23:10 PM »

I didn't like Miami that much but thought south beach was pretty cool.

Damn mosquitos nearly ate me alive last month. Cigar smoke wouldn't even keep them away!!
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« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2008, 07:19:58 PM »

My daughters delivery was neither C-section or natural.

Was dumped in my lap at 3 yrs old when I married her dad who had sole custody. This took 2 seconds, no medical bills and was totally painfree!

Less arguing about your birth methods, as I beat everyone in best method Cheesy

Ok, that settles it... CQ wins!  Grin
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« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2008, 07:23:07 PM »

I didn't like Miami that much but thought south beach was pretty cool.

Damn mosquitos nearly ate me alive last month. Cigar smoke wouldn't even keep them away!!

They're like little kamikaze pilots around here, ...and if your Aunt Flo is visiting... LOOK OUT!
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Laura Lee
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« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2008, 03:50:02 AM »

I didn't like Miami that much but thought south beach was pretty cool.

Damn mosquitos nearly ate me alive last month. Cigar smoke wouldn't even keep them away!!
I've been down here 3 years now and have only gotten 2 or 3 bites by a mosquito.  I guess it's all about where you're at down here.  I'm not in Miami, I'm about an hour and a half north of Miami.  My dad lives on the other side of Florida (Punta Gorda) and when I visited him a few months ago I got eaten alive by the "no see-ums" or sand fleas.  Those bastards suck!   Angry
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« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2008, 06:10:26 AM »

I've been down here 3 years now and have only gotten 2 or 3 bites by a mosquito.  I guess it's all about where you're at down here.  I'm not in Miami, I'm about an hour and a half north of Miami.  My dad lives on the other side of Florida (Punta Gorda) and when I visited him a few months ago I got eaten alive by the "no see-ums" or sand fleas.  Those bastards suck!   Angry

When I lived in Jacksonville Fla. (10 years) I used to ingest raw Garlic daily that kept the sqitoes, sand fleas and no-see-ums at bay.

Try that if you will but mind you, you will also keep the humans at arms length too.
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« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2008, 06:15:38 AM »

I've been down here 3 years now and have only gotten 2 or 3 bites by a mosquito.  I guess it's all about where you're at down here.  I'm not in Miami, I'm about an hour and a half north of Miami.  My dad lives on the other side of Florida (Punta Gorda) and when I visited him a few months ago I got eaten alive by the "no see-ums" or sand fleas.  Those bastards suck!   Angry

Sadly, I've got what people in the Carrib. call "sweet blood" and mosqitos love me. I'm hoping Miami beach will be better.

HM,

And I typed this real slow. End things with her now, a child deserves two parents who actually wanted kids. Being nagged convinced to have children doesn't make sense and your lives will end up sucking in the long run.
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