Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
October 16, 2017, 11:19:42 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Business of Being Born  (Read 6232 times)
BayGBM
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18613



« on: June 05, 2008, 11:16:35 PM »

This evening I watched a documentary called The Business of Being Born.  It was filled with some pretty surprising statistics and scenarios around births in the USA, statistics that are in sharp contrast to what’s happening in other industrialized countries.  As a guy (who cares about women and loves babies) I found it all fascinating.

One of the early arguments set forth in the film is that in the USA pregnancy/delivery has been framed as a medical “problem” that requires treatment in a hospital by an ob/gyn.  In other industrialized countries the use of trained, home birth mid-wives are much more common and the mortality rate for mothers/babies in those countries is much lower than in the USA.

In the 1970s, Cesarean births in the US went from 4% to 23%.  Since 1996 the C-section rate in the US has risen 46%.  The incidents of C-sections are going up and up and up!  Why the rise in C-sections?  It turns out that they are extremely “doctor friendly.”  That is to say, they focus on the doctor’s needs rather than the best interests of the mother & baby. 

They’ve done studies and found that the majority of C-sections occur just after 4pm and just after 10pm.  In other words the doctor can do it and still get home in time for dinner.  Or he can do it and not have to stay up all night tending to the expectant mother.  The typical C-section is done in 20 minutes.

The film talks about a lot of other issues (insurance companies, for example) that I think you’ll find interesting.  It calls into question a lot of the assumptions we have about childbirth—including the ideal position from which to give birth--lying on your back with your legs up in stirrups is not it.  So why is this position so common?  Again, it has to do with convenience for the doctor...  Undecided

I highly recommend this film.  It's available on DVD and via Netflix.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0995061/

Report to moderator   Logged
INSOMNIA
Competitors II
Getbig IV
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 2389


we're all mad here


« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2008, 01:26:58 AM »

Wow, thanks Bay. This is something not many people talk about...but its so true.

I was scared shitless they were gonna try to make me have a C-section. Many times they will try to scare the women into doing so. I have a hard time trusting doctors.
Report to moderator   Logged
BayGBM
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18613



« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 06:21:49 AM »

They talk about this (scaring the mother) in the film too.  Any and every suggestion doctors & nurses make leading up to and during delivery is framed as “this is best for the health of your baby” because they know it is a phrase that will ultimately shut you up and make you comply with whatever it is they want to do.  No reasonable woman--especially a first time mom--is going to challenge a comment like that from a physician. Doctors know this and they use it (that phrase) all the time to control you.

The film has commentary from expectant & recent moms, OB/GYN residents & experienced physicians from several hospitals, and some doctors from Europe, all of which paint a scary picture about the way women in the US have been manipulated into thinking that having a baby is a medical “problem” that can only be “treated” in a hospital.  Question: why has this happened?  Answer: $$$
 
More surprising facts from the film:

Whether in a hospital or at home, midwives attend between 70%-80% of births in Europe and Japan; in the USA midwives attend less than 8%. 

Midwives are essentially banned from hospitals in the USA.  In America midwives only participate in births that take place at home, a birthing center, or elsewhere--never in a hospital.

The USA has the second worst newborn mortality rate in the developed world.

In 1900 95% of births in the USA took place at home.

In 1938, half of all births took place at home.

By 1955, less than 1% of births took place at home.

View the trailer for the film here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DgLf8hHMgo


* business-of-being-born.jpg (54.76 KB, 325x365 - viewed 332 times.)
Report to moderator   Logged
Butterbean
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 19354


« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 06:49:25 AM »

 

They’ve done studies and found that the majority of C-sections occur just after 4pm and just after 10pm.  In other words the doctor can do it and still get home in time for dinner.  Or he can do it and not have to stay up all night tending to the expectant mother.  The typical C-section is done in 20 minutes.




Very interesting.  My friend who at the time was about to give birth to her first baby wanted me in the room w/her and her husband.  We were there all day and at about 9:30pm they decided to do a C-Section.  Interesting.

And is it true that if the woman has a C-Section that all births subsequent to that must be C-Sections?
Report to moderator   Logged

R
BayGBM
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18613



« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 07:27:18 AM »

Very interesting.  My friend who at the time was about to give birth to her first baby wanted me in the room w/her and her husband.  We were there all day and at about 9:30pm they decided to do a C-Section.  Interesting.

And is it true that if the woman has a C-Section that all births subsequent to that must be C-Sections?

I don't know, "check with your doctor" but one of the female OB/GYNs in the film did mention that the first C-section is usually very simple but the second, third, fourth, etc poses huge risks to the mother in terms of injury to her bladder, intestines, appendix, etc. and other complications.

Another doctor mentions that a C-section is major surgery with all the attendant risks (for example, infections that are harder to treat with antibiotics) but it is offered with the frequency and rhetoric as if they were cutting your fingernails.

All the doctors featured in this film agree that a vaginal birth is safer and less risky than a C-section.  Though I suppose there are doctors not featured in this film that might disagree.  Undecided

Report to moderator   Logged
Dos Equis
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 51805

I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)


« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 08:24:50 AM »

Very interesting.  My friend who at the time was about to give birth to her first baby wanted me in the room w/her and her husband.  We were there all day and at about 9:30pm they decided to do a C-Section.  Interesting.

And is it true that if the woman has a C-Section that all births subsequent to that must be C-Sections?

No.  Common misconception, fed in part by doctors.  My wife had three VBACs (vaginal birth after caesarean).  Not sure if they still call them that. 
Report to moderator   Logged
Hustle Man
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1351

What is the most common form of stupidity?


« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 10:39:57 AM »

Vaginal is natural C sects are for emergencies.

for you insecure guys, just asked the Doc to add a few extra stitches if he has to cut the perineum.
Report to moderator   Logged

W
Laura Lee
Competitors II
Getbig V
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 9960



« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 10:56:03 AM »

I had my kids via c-section due to my pelvic/hips never expanding.  I would never have been able to pass them naturally and would have lost them.   Women's pelvic regions tilt and expand durning pregnancy to cradle and then give room for the baby to pass through the birth canal, which is why most women's hips look so wide during their pregnancy.  Mine never moved.   Undecided
Report to moderator   Logged

Cheesy Weee
Hustle Man
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1351

What is the most common form of stupidity?


« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 11:30:27 AM »

I had my kids via c-section due to my pelvic/hips never expanding.  I would never have been able to pass them naturally and would have lost them.   Women's pelvic regions tilt and expand durning pregnancy to cradle and then give room for the baby to pass through the birth canal, which is why most women's hips look so wide during their pregnancy.  Mine never moved.   Undecided

That's why I said C-sects are for emergencies or abnormal situations. I bet Mike is happy about that Smiley
Report to moderator   Logged

W
Laura Lee
Competitors II
Getbig V
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 9960



« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2008, 08:17:57 AM »

That's why I said C-sects are for emergencies or abnormal situations. I bet Mike is happy about that Smiley
Yup   Grin
Report to moderator   Logged

Cheesy Weee
24KT
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 24470


Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244


WWW
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2008, 04:08:55 PM »

Vaginal births are better for both mothers and babies.

As the baby passes through the birth canal, it passes over the Grafenberg spot. This area is not just for pleasure during intimate moments with your partner, it also raises a woman's pain threshold during childbirth. In addition, the baby's passage through the birth canal aligns the spine and chakra points of the baby. Babies delivered vaginally are happier and more well adjusted over the long term and as a rule don't cry as much as those delivered through C-Section.

C- sections give raise to opportunistic infections in the mother, that can result in future sterility.
They also can weaken the uterine walls making subsequent vaginal births very difficult.
Recovery times from C-Sections far exceed those from vaginal deliveries.

Modern medicine has infact shifted a natural process of life into a medical procedure from which much profit can be derived.
Report to moderator   Logged

w
Hustle Man
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1351

What is the most common form of stupidity?


« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 10:10:16 PM »

Vaginal births are better for both mothers and babies.

As the baby passes through the birth canal, it passes over the Grafenberg spot. This area is not just for pleasure during intimate moments with your partner, it also raises a woman's pain threshold during childbirth. In addition, the baby's passage through the birth canal aligns the spine and chakra points of the baby. Babies delivered vaginally are happier and more well adjusted over the long term and as a rule don't cry as much as those delivered through C-Section.


I have heard this straight from the Mommy's mouth but she also said she was sexually aroused during the childbirth. I found it strange at the time but I have a better understanding of the process now.
Report to moderator   Logged

W
Laura Lee
Competitors II
Getbig V
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 9960



« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2008, 09:01:54 AM »

Vaginal births are better for both mothers and babies.

As the baby passes through the birth canal, it passes over the Grafenberg spot. This area is not just for pleasure during intimate moments with your partner, it also raises a woman's pain threshold during childbirth. In addition, the baby's passage through the birth canal aligns the spine and chakra points of the baby. Babies delivered vaginally are happier and more well adjusted over the long term and as a rule don't cry as much as those delivered through C-Section.

C- sections give raise to opportunistic infections in the mother, that can result in future sterility.
They also can weaken the uterine walls making subsequent vaginal births very difficult.
Recovery times from C-Sections far exceed those from vaginal deliveries.

Modern medicine has infact shifted a natural process of life into a medical procedure from which much profit can be derived.
Vaginal births are definitely more natural, but not always better.  As I said in my case, my children would never have passed and would have both died, not to mention probably killed me too.  Many woman have died due to not being able to have a c-section (I'm talking in the past...before it became a science).  And as someone has stated in this thread...women are capable of delivering a child vaginally after a c-section.  Many have done so.  They are things that should be discussed with your doctor in detail when pregnant. 

As far as vaginally babies being happier, that's so ridiculous (IMO).  Both my kids were the happiest babies ever.  Always laughing, always well behaved.  Both were walking and talking early.  My son has always been in advanced classes and my daughter graduated a year early.   IMO it seams more traumatic to squeezed slowly through a small hole (hearing the mom screaming, lol) than it is to be pulled out a larger one, lol. 

I'll agree the recovery time is definitely greater, but it really doesn't take anything away from the baby.  You have a couple of weeks of not being able to drive or lift things over 10 pounds.  But, I think those small sacrifices are worth what I brought home.  Smiley

Report to moderator   Logged

Cheesy Weee
24KT
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 24470


Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244


WWW
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2008, 02:39:29 PM »

Vaginal births are definitely more natural, but not always better.  As I said in my case, my children would never have passed and would have both died, not to mention probably killed me too.  Many woman have died due to not being able to have a c-section (I'm talking in the past...before it became a science).  And as someone has stated in this thread...women are capable of delivering a child vaginally after a c-section.  Many have done so.  They are things that should be discussed with your doctor in detail when pregnant. 

Laura,

Vaginal births are always better!  In your case, your body didn't function the way it was supposed to, so a C-section was required, however, had your body functioned the way it was supposed to, a vaginal birth would have been better for your kids.


Quote
As far as vaginally babies being happier, that's so ridiculous (IMO).  Both my kids were the happiest babies ever.  Always laughing, always well behaved.  Both were walking and talking early.  My son has always been in advanced classes and my daughter graduated a year early.   IMO it seams more traumatic to squeezed slowly through a small hole (hearing the mom screaming, lol) than it is to be pulled out a larger one, lol. 

It may be ridiculous in your opinion, but it is a fact in the greater body of knowledge.

A good deal of the "trauma" involved in vaginal hospital births have to do with the environment itself.
When you couple that with the drugs they use, which prolongs labour, it is bound to be traumatic. Now the child is delivered in an unnatural position, which is not conducive to labour, brought out of his/her warm home into a freezing cold environment, with bright lights, and some SOB grabs him by the ankles, turns him upside down and slaps him on the ass real hard? You'd be traumatized too.
 
Quote
I'll agree the recovery time is definitely greater, but it really doesn't take anything away from the baby.  You have a couple of weeks of not being able to drive or lift things over 10 pounds.  But, I think those small sacrifices are worth what I brought home.  Smiley

Duh, ...of course it is when you look at the alternative in your particular individual case, ...however, the greater point of this thread that BayGBM was getting at, and which the film depicts is that the majority of C-Sections done in America are done for the convenience of the doctor and profit to the system, rather than for what is best for women and their children.

C-Sections deprive the baby of their passage through the birth canal. There are energy meridians throughout the body and certain chakra points that align along the spine. Western science has long poo-pooed these areas which are common knowledge in Eastern philosophies, areas that modern Western science is just catching on to. During gestation, the fetus is curled up without much opportunity to flex it's muscles so to speak, just as it cannot use it's lungs during gestation, so too are it's chakra energy centres dormant. The passage through the birth canal brings the spine into alignment, and activates these chakra points. When lifted out of the womb, this does not occur.
Report to moderator   Logged

w
BayGBM
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18613



« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2008, 08:14:20 PM »

Laura,

Vaginal births are always better!  In your case, your body didn't function the way it was supposed to, so a C-section was required, however, had your body functioned the way it was supposed to, a vaginal birth would have been better for your kids.


It may be ridiculous in your opinion, but it is a fact in the greater body of knowledge.

A good deal of the "trauma" involved in vaginal hospital births have to do with the environment itself.
When you couple that with the drugs they use, which prolongs labour, it is bound to be traumatic. Now the child is delivered in an unnatural position, which is not conducive to labour, brought out of his/her warm home into a freezing cold environment, with bright lights, and some SOB grabs him by the ankles, turns him upside down and slaps him on the ass real hard? You'd be traumatized too.
 
Duh, ...of course it is when you look at the alternative in your particular individual case, ...however, the greater point of this thread that BayGBM was getting at, and which the film depicts is that the majority of C-Sections done in America are done for the convenience of the doctor and profit to the system, rather than for what is best for women and their children.

C-Sections deprive the baby of their passage through the birth canal. There are energy meridians throughout the body and certain chakra points that align along the spine. Western science has long poo-pooed these areas which are common knowledge in Eastern philosophies, areas that modern Western science is just catching on to. During gestation, the fetus is curled up without much opportunity to flex it's muscles so to speak, just as it cannot use it's lungs during gestation, so too are it's chakra energy centres dormant. The passage through the birth canal brings the spine into alignment, and activates these chakra points. When lifted out of the womb, this does not occur.

I was under the impression before and after the film that the drugs used accelerate rather than prolong labor.  For example Pitocin is almost always given to women in hospitals to cause/accelerate contractions to "get it over with."  Labor in a natural delivery can drag on for hours--literally, and hospitals don't like that.  They want you in and then out--quickly!  It's convenient for the doctors, nurses, and hospitals to have pregnant mom's move through like an assembly line and a labor that drags on for hours is basically unwelcome in their smooth running system.  So they drug you up with Pitocin, etc. 

If you look at the movie trailer again they even make reference to Pitocin several times they call it "Pit".  Look for it at time interval :38 seconds thru 49 seconds.  Embarrassed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DgLf8hHMgo
Report to moderator   Logged
drkaje
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18200


Quiet, Err. I'm transmitting rage.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2008, 08:24:55 PM »

C-sections save a lot of headaches. Anytime something goes wrong it's the doctor's fault for not doing a c-section soon enough.
Report to moderator   Logged

BayGBM
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18613



« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2008, 09:29:35 PM »

C-sections save a lot of headaches. Anytime something goes wrong it's the doctor's fault for not doing a c-section soon enough.

That is what doctors (are trained to) think and that is why they have become so common.  One of the film's primary arguments is that decisions are being made based on legal and monetary reasons rather than what is medically in the best interest of the mother and newborn.
Report to moderator   Logged
24KT
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 24470


Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244


WWW
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2008, 11:12:03 PM »

I was under the impression before and after the film that the drugs used accelerate rather than prolong labor.  For example Pitocin is almost always given to women in hospitals to cause/accelerate contractions to "get it over with."  Labor in a natural delivery can drag on for hours--literally, and hospitals don't like that.  They want you in and then out--quickly!  It's convenient for the doctors, nurses, and hospitals to have pregnant mom's move through like an assembly line and a labor that drags on for hours is basically unwelcome in their smooth running system.  So they drug you up with Pitocin, etc. 

If you look at the movie trailer again they even make reference to Pitocin several times they call it "Pit".  Look for it at time interval :38 seconds thru 49 seconds.  Embarrassed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DgLf8hHMgo


The drugs do prolong the labour.

Most women who's babies pop out in minutes vs hours are those who had completely natural childbirths.
They didn't go though the rigamaroll of a hospitalized birth. Those who do make it to the hospital in time,
are too far along to receive any kind of drugs and the babies just pop right outta there.

Drugged up, on your back, with legs in stirrups is unnatural. Squatting in an unchlorinated hottub in the dark

In China, a woman delivers, ...and is back in the rice fields that afternoon.  Grin
Report to moderator   Logged

w
drkaje
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 18200


Quiet, Err. I'm transmitting rage.


WWW
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2008, 06:28:48 AM »

That is what doctors (are trained to) think and that is why they have become so common.  One of the film's primary arguments is that decisions are being made based on legal and monetary reasons rather than what is medically in the best interest of the mother and newborn.

Trained to think in a sensible way is a good thing. The one time a doctor doesn't do a C-section early enough all hell breaks loose. You have no idea what happens to them after and ultimately, being sued restricts a doctor's ability to help others. Better safe than sorry, as the old saying goes. In about 5 years the shortage of OBGYNs will start to really impact the middle class and no one will understand why, LOL! Lawyers have made it so OBs are responsible for a child until it turns 18. If you were an OBGYN and about to retire tomorrow and wanted to deliver one last baby (for old times sake or the money) the law makes it so paying for tail coverage (malpractice) on that delivery until the kid is 18 or you might get screwed. Blame lawyers but a lot of OBs are only doing pre-natal care now and explain to women that they'll have to find another doctor to deliver the baby. I really can't imagine how abandoned some women would feel in that situation but I do understand that from a medico-legal standpoint the doctor is responsible for that baby a long time and anything can be blamed on a delivery.

I doubt the laws will change so more and more OB slots will be taken by immigrants.
Report to moderator   Logged

Laura Lee
Competitors II
Getbig V
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 9960



« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2008, 06:40:52 AM »

Judi...how many babies have you had?
Report to moderator   Logged

Cheesy Weee
24KT
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 24470


Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244


WWW
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2008, 08:41:06 PM »

Judi...how many babies have you had?

I've had about the same amount of vaginal births as you.

I also have a baby everytime I read some of the ridiculous BS on here!

...plus I stayed in a Holiday Inn Select once.  Grin
Report to moderator   Logged

w
Original Sin
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Female
Posts: 1547


You fucking disappoint me!


« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2008, 09:53:24 PM »

I've had about the same amount of vaginal births as you.

I also have a baby everytime I read some of the ridiculous BS on here!

...plus I stayed in a Holiday Inn Select once.  Grin

LOL
BAD JUDI
LOL
Report to moderator   Logged

Just Bad Bad Blood!
24KT
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Female
Posts: 24470


Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244


WWW
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2008, 12:01:21 AM »

LOL
BAD JUDI
LOL

 Tongue
Report to moderator   Logged

w
Laura Lee
Competitors II
Getbig V
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 9960



« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2008, 06:53:47 AM »

I've had about the same amount of vaginal births as you.

I also have a baby everytime I read some of the ridiculous BS on here!

...plus I stayed in a Holiday Inn Select once.  Grin
Well I can say I tried the vaginal birth darling and if it weren't for the c-section...I nor my children wouldn't be to talk about it.  Some people live through experience while others live through someone else's numbers (statistics).

And your quote of "I also have a baby everytime I read some of the ridiculous BS on here!" is ridiculous, especially when you haven't had one to compare too.  Maybe you should change it to "I also have a shit everytime I read some of the ridiculous BS on here!"  That seems a bit more logical.
Report to moderator   Logged

Cheesy Weee
Hustle Man
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1351

What is the most common form of stupidity?


« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2008, 07:50:19 AM »

I think OS and the Jagged One need to become birth surrogates just for the experience of carrying life around for 9 mos. You can hand the little one over to the bio parents right after the birth and immediately return to the gym and get back in shape!


My fiancee wants to have a baby now and the urge is very intense for her!  I don't know if I am equipped to return to that stage in life ( diapers, mid-night feedings, but she is ready now! I don't know what to do. Having 4 steps is not enough for her!

Help!!!
Report to moderator   Logged

W
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Theme created by Egad Community. Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!