Author Topic: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?  (Read 22364 times)

candidizzle

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2008, 04:12:46 PM »
5-8 is the best compromise between size and strength gains. 8-12 is the best for overall size. 1-4 is the best for strength.

slaveboy1980

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2008, 04:18:50 PM »
5-8 is the best compromise between size and strength gains. 8-12 is the best for overall size. 1-4 is the best for strength.

life is full of compromises. 5-8 is what you should do most of the time. add a couple of sets of 8-12 (-15 for legs) and your good to go. then do a couple of periods of lower rep training (for example 3s) per year...(3-4 weeks at a time), to increase strength further. which lets you use heavier weights when you go back to the somewhat higher reps.

in other words:
if your a powerlifter get strong in the 1-5 rep range. (lower the reps the closer to competition you get)
if your a bodybuilder get strong in the 5-8(12) rep range.

candidizzle

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2008, 04:20:25 PM »
ill personally never go into the 1-4 rep range... thats not me and not how i train and not why i train..... and getting too strong just makes lifting a pain in the ass;;; i already have to do so much loading and unloading of plates that shit gets annoying

wes

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2008, 07:04:00 AM »
I would only use the 5 x 5 approach on the big major power moves and include some isolation exercises with higher reps (6-12).

wes

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2008, 07:06:02 AM »
5-8 is the best compromise between size and strength gains. 8-12 is the best for overall size. 1-4 is the best for strength.
Lower reps with heavy weight = power.

Diet regardless of rep scheme = size.

candidizzle

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2008, 10:12:19 AM »
Lower reps with heavy weight = power.

Diet regardless of rep scheme = size.
do you mean to say rep range has no effect on hypertrophy only diet does ?

wes

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2008, 11:19:02 AM »
It all depends on a persons genetics.

Heavier weight will build a thicker denser looking muscle but calories,calorie expenditure,and maco amounts give you size as long as muscle tissue is broken down with decent weight...............8-12 reps,with a spot-on diet and you will gain size.

You don`t necessarily have to do 1-6 reps for mass.

candidizzle

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2008, 12:34:54 PM »
calories,calorie expenditure,and maco amounts give you size as long as muscle tissue is broken down with decent weight
why would i want to break down muscle tissue ?

wes

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2008, 01:52:26 PM »
So it can repair and grow.

candidizzle

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2008, 01:56:29 PM »
 i don think i want to break my muscles down

id prefer to keep them intact and full and just activate growth through reaching failure and switching on the satellite cells..


The Master

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2008, 01:57:49 PM »
All you intellectuals suck. Debussey don't understand anything of what you = writing. What is a satelite cell?

Shut up and lift.

Cap

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2008, 03:57:56 PM »
Whole reason I asked was because of a shoulder injury I got on a low rep scheme (5)...
Then be careful with it but I have one too and generally a weak shoulder is also a sign of muscular imbalances.
Squishy face retard

l_c0llins

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2008, 04:32:37 PM »
I`ve used the 5 reps to great effect.  In fact 3-5 reps is almost all I ever use.

I only change the number of sets & rest periods between them to differentiate a mass program from a power program from a strength program.

But you`re saying:
Quote
Whole reason I asked was because of a shoulder injury I got on a low rep scheme (5)...
How could that be due to anything other than poor form or
muscular imbalances.
?
Are you getting any external rotation exercises in with your shoulder program? What kind of programs have you been on for the last 12 months?


pumpster

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2008, 06:39:42 PM »
The injury suffered by this thread's author's a perfect example of the heightened injury potential actually, regardless of whether some here like low reps and haven't suffered the same thing. Not to say it will happen to everyone, but the probability for injury goes up with higher weights and lower reps, it's pretty much common sense. That's why top BBs don't go with low reps in general using very heavy weight, they know better than to let ego get in the way. They go with fairly heavy weight relative to their strength in the 6-12 range for the most part with some changeups once in a while for contrast.

On a cost-benefit basis it's debatable whether lower reps will make any significant difference in terms of development. Those espousing low reps might've made the same or better gains on other programs. On the other hand the cost in terms of increased risk of injury is beyond debate.

Poor form is only possibly cause of injury. Even with perfect form the potential for injury's always higher with heavy weights for most people, period. The connective tissues and joints are overloaded with resistance they're not totally in control of when the reps are low. There's also precious little mind-muscle connection with very heavy weight.

Shoulder imbalances are only one cause of injury, there are plenty of people who are candidates for injury including Bob Chick who had no imbalance at all. Many just don't have the physique to handle low reps and very heavy poundages. It's pretty much common sense that huge poundages put tremendous strain on the joints and connective tissues.

I really believe that some here like the low reps due to ego. That's great for powerlifting, but notice that most of the strong BBs don't go with low reps on a regular basis for the reasons i've outlined both heightened risk of injury and also the fact that it's not as good in general for development. And once they're injured the don't have to be told twice on avoiding low reps. ;)

Varying the reps for shock value's cute but isn't essential either, both because there are many ways to add shock value outside of doing this, and because the truth is everyone has a sweet spot in terms of a rep range that works best for each muscle. That's not to say changing it up once in a while's not a good idea but bottom line those sweet spots generally don't change, which is why you'll notice that the ranges in routines of guys like Scott, Oliva and Schwarzenegger didn't change that much over the decades. They had maybe two ranges for each muscle, one off-season the other pre-contest.

MisterMagoo

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2008, 09:54:38 PM »
I really believe that some here like the low reps due to ego.

as opposed to lifting for bigger muscles, which ISN"T about ego? ???

Bluto

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2008, 02:30:13 AM »
kinda depends on if we're talking failure or not going to failure here. say you're stopping short of failure and still got 2-3 reps in you then 5 reps isnt that low. but if you're going to failure on your last set and is struggling reaching 5 reps and maybe just get 4 in say shoulder presses, then there might be a risk for injury there.
Z

slaveboy1980

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2008, 04:42:32 AM »
All you intellectuals suck. Debussey don't understand anything of what you = writing. What is a satelite cell?

Shut up and lift.

pol pot

slaveboy1980

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2008, 04:52:43 AM »
kinda depends on if we're talking failure or not going to failure here. say you're stopping short of failure and still got 2-3 reps in you then 5 reps isnt that low. but if you're going to failure on your last set and is struggling reaching 5 reps and maybe just get 4 in say shoulder presses, then there might be a risk for injury there.


thats one aspect that alot of idiots on here forget when talking about 'low reps'. they think doing 5s = going to failure with heavy weight. (which increases risk of injury alot more compared to avoiding failure) in general i think its best to avoid failure, and stay 1-2 reps away from it. altho failure will happen from time to time when you try to push the poundages.

slaveboy1980

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2008, 05:11:14 AM »
The injury suffered by this thread's author's a perfect example of the heightened injury potential actually, regardless of whether some here like low reps and haven't suffered the same thing. Not to say it will happen to everyone, but the probability for injury goes up with higher weights and lower reps, it's pretty much common sense. That's why top BBs don't go with low reps in general using very heavy weight, they know better than to let ego get in the way. They go with fairly heavy weight relative to their strength in the 6-12 range for the most part with some changeups once in a while for contrast.

On a cost-benefit basis it's debatable whether lower reps will make any significant difference in terms of development. Those espousing low reps might've made the same or better gains on other programs. On the other hand the cost in terms of increased risk of injury is beyond debate.

Poor form is only possibly cause of injury. Even with perfect form the potential for injury's always higher with heavy weights for most people, period. The connective tissues and joints are overloaded with resistance they're not totally in control of when the reps are low. There's also precious little mind-muscle connection with very heavy weight.

Shoulder imbalances are only one cause of injury, there are plenty of people who are candidates for injury including Bob Chick who had no imbalance at all. Many just don't have the physique to handle low reps and very heavy poundages. It's pretty much common sense that huge poundages put tremendous strain on the joints and connective tissues.

I really believe that some here like the low reps due to ego. That's great for powerlifting, but notice that most of the strong BBs don't go with low reps on a regular basis for the reasons i've outlined both heightened risk of injury and also the fact that it's not as good in general for development. And once they're injured the don't have to be told twice on avoiding low reps. ;)

Varying the reps for shock value's cute but isn't essential either, both because there are many ways to add shock value outside of doing this, and because the truth is everyone has a sweet spot in terms of a rep range that works best for each muscle. That's not to say changing it up once in a while's not a good idea but bottom line those sweet spots generally don't change, which is why you'll notice that the ranges in routines of guys like Scott, Oliva and Schwarzenegger didn't change that much over the decades. They had maybe two ranges for each muscle, one off-season the other pre-contest.

i wont comment 'low' reps vs 'high' reps as i already expressed my opinion on that.

you forget that most pros did work heavy with pretty low reps when they were up and coming and growing. you cant build your argumentation on pros who have basically already achieved all the mass they need. when a pro says he is refining his muscle with higher reps and that he doesnt go heavy any more its because he has become a pussy (built the mass already) and/or injury preventention (as you said)

finally: both oliva and schwarzenegger did do alot of low repetition training in the beginning of their training careers.  as they years went by for these two, the percentage of time spent doing low rep work decreased. (arnold always said you have to keep some heavy work in there tho, which is correct)


MisterMagoo

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2008, 08:36:56 AM »
you cant build your argumentation on pros who have basically already achieved all the mass they need. when a pro says he is refining his muscle with higher reps and that he doesnt go heavy any more its because he has become a pussy (built the mass already) and/or injury preventention (as you said)

this is what always drove me nuts about the "such and such pro used HIT" argument.

when you read interviews with the bodybuilders, they almost all, nigh universally, talk about how when they were younger they lifted ultra heavy, but now they lift "smart".

candidizzle

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2008, 08:40:08 AM »
thats one aspect that alot of idiots on here forget when talking about 'low reps'. they think doing 5s = going to failure with heavy weight. (which increases risk of injury alot more compared to avoiding failure) in general i think its best to avoid failure, and stay 1-2 reps away from it. altho failure will happen from time to time when you try to push the poundages.
you know alot of experts will tell you stopping two reps sort of complete failure is a completete waste of time

slaveboy1980

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2008, 08:44:25 AM »
you know alot of experts will tell you stopping two reps sort of complete failure is a completete waste of time

lol

jpm101

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2008, 08:48:41 AM »
Have to agree with SlaveBoy1980 for the most part. Also that Sergio and Arnold (believe he set some records in his home country) both got their start as Olympic lifters. Sergios older brother, back in Cuba, was well into lifting. And according to Sergio, much bigger and stronger than he...that would be something to see).  And with most Pro's, the mass was already there. It was the refinement and detail work that caused their most attention. And of course the chemical boost that added to their already large muscle mass.

From those that I have seen workout, some of the top guy's and Pro's never really go to the point of failure, at any time. Always appear to have a couple of reps left in the tank. Not that they are coasting though, but not exactly busting their nuts on every exercise either.

May surprise a lot of folks but muscle mass can be built with higher reps (up to and inclucing 20) as well as with lower reps. As said before, 3 can do for you what 20 can not and vice versa. Experiment on your own to find the millon dollar workout for you alone. Good Luck.
F

candidizzle

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Overload

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Re: Can hypertrophy physiologically be achieved on a 5 rep scheme?
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2008, 12:01:16 PM »
i think we need all 3 rep ranges for maximum benefits for weight training. the last few years i have used all rep ranges and grown very well, i also have gained a lot of strength  this way.

Example.

Heavy bench day...chest(for bodybuilders)

Flat bench - warm ups, triple, double, triple
Incline DB - 3 sets of 6-10 reps
cable flyes - 3 sets of 12-15 reps

This routine has helped myself and many other people make steady strength gains while adding a good amount of size...assuming you are eating enough and resting.


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