Ron Paul makes a major move...

[MRDUMPLING]

True...I should have said "The" Fair Tax.  It is very different wording in a legal sense.  

-The one point I put out was the IRS...the plan I am speaking of does NOT want to get rid of the IRS.

-The problem with the payroll tax is that businesses have to equal what every employee pays in federal taxes(this kills small businesses) it's not that it is a flat tax.  The business owner is then of course taxed again for profits, etc.  

-The black market is here to stay...it won't increase or decrease no matter what our government decides to do.  


I must be one of those low IQ people(LOL), while I don't have a formal education I do my best to read and keep up with world events.  I don't totally understand the math shown, but also I've always responded to someone teaching math rather than reading it.  Flame away at that...  

[CQ]

Why do focus so much on his suit and delivery when in your own words you said you agree with his policies? I wish you spent as much time discussing the policies you agreed with instead of wasting both our time with pure nonsense. Notice I didnt say, talk about him being president, I said talk about his policies.

So lets see, so far you agree with his policies but doubt his mind set because he didnt wear the suit you thought he should wear and he didn't speak as fluently as say someone like Obama. ok...the truth is vanity is more imporatant to you than substance.

It's not he wasn't up to Obama [who is top notch in that area] it was that he sucked majestically in that area. Big difference.

Check their expenses, many pres candidates hire speech coaches, and other coaches to help with perception. It matters, everyone knows it. Despite the facts plainly in evidence and true for years - Paul chose to disregard societal norms and expectations. Majority of the general public will NOT look past perceived creepiness, the minuscule number of votes he got confirms that.

Great ideas, if people won't vote for him - useless. Why did he not do what every other single viable candidate does - take effort with presentation, brush up social skills etc? He stood no chance, partly by not taking some effort to conform to society's norms. That makes me doubt his mindset, not his looks.

[Decker]

...-The problem with the payroll tax is that businesses have to equal what every employee pays in federal taxes(this kills small businesses) it's not that it is a flat tax.  The business owner is then of course taxed again for profits, etc.

I'm not sure what you are getting at.  The employer and employee pay 1/2 and 1/2 of the payroll tax.  The SS portion is a flat tax b/c it is 12.4% for all people but it favors the rich b/c the tax is capped at $105,000.  The 2.9% Medicare portion of FICA is not capped but it is still a flat tax.  

....I must be one of those low IQ people(LOL), while I don't have a formal education I do my best to read and keep up with world events.  I don't totally understand the math shown, but also I've always responded to someone teaching math rather than reading it.  Flame away at that...  

I didn't author the web site and I'm sorry if you're offended by it.  I don't care to do things that way for the most part.  Poor taste aside, I don't see any substantive errors at that site.

[MRDUMPLING]

I'm not sure what you are getting at.  The employer and employee pay 1/2 and 1/2 of the payroll tax.  The SS portion is a flat tax b/c it is 12.4% for all people but it favors the rich b/c the tax is capped at $105,000.  The 2.9% Medicare portion of FICA is not capped but it is still a flat tax.  
I didn't author the web site and I'm sorry if you're offended by it.  I don't care to do things that way for the most part.  Poor taste aside, I don't see any substantive errors at that site.

That isn't entirely accurate...whatever the employee pays the employer MATCHES.  I've seen this myself as I work for a small business.  That's what makes me angry about the situation.  Even half of the payroll tax is too much.

-The litigation for both SS and Medicare is a "contribution".  I find that to be a bit odd. 

I was by no means offended,(I can take more than that) and I know you did not author it, my point was it's just detrimental to an arguement if you are trying to convince people otherwise. 

-Why does it favor the rich with it being capped at $150,000?  Knowing that it is a "contribution", not only that, but if the rich plan for retirement during their working years, why should they pay for somebody else's? 

[Bindare_Dundat]

It's not he wasn't up to Obama [who is top notch in that area] it was that he sucked majestically in that area. Big difference.

Check their expenses, many pres candidates hire speech coaches, and other coaches to help with perception. It matters, everyone knows it. Despite the facts plainly in evidence and true for years - Paul chose to disregard societal norms and expectations. Majority of the general public will NOT look past perceived creepiness, the minuscule number of votes he got confirms that.

Great ideas, if people won't vote for him - useless. Why did he not do what every other single viable candidate does - take effort with presentation, brush up social skills etc? He stood no chance, partly by not taking some effort to conform to society's norms. That makes me doubt his mindset, not his looks.

I'm talking about YOU right now. If YOU like ROn's policies, (which you said you do) why have you wasted effort and time constantly bringing up his dressing style and orating skill? Unless one means more to you than the other. Now do you understand what Im trying to say?

[MRDUMPLING]

I'm not sure what you are getting at.  The employer and employee pay 1/2 and 1/2 of the payroll tax.  The SS portion is a flat tax b/c it is 12.4% for all people but it favors the rich b/c the tax is capped at $105,000.  The 2.9% Medicare portion of FICA is not capped but it is still a flat tax.  
I didn't author the web site and I'm sorry if you're offended by it.  I don't care to do things that way for the most part.  Poor taste aside, I don't see any substantive errors at that site.

[Dos Equis]

you know, the ones you posted yourself last December, or did you forget already?

I just listed his positions on issues and stated whether I agree with them or not.  I guess you could consider that a "message."  He and I are tax kindred, so I guess I could cite him, but there are plenty of other anti-tax militants.

In any event, I doubt our system changes in this lifetime.   

[Dos Equis]

It is why he stood no chance from the onset.

A truly savvy man ignores *should* and looks at reality.

Not to be overdramatic, but I *should* be able to go out in a tiny dress at 3am in the worst part of Washington DC for a 2 hr walk unarmed by myself. I *should* be able to that, reality tells me I would be a fool.

Paul could have gotten some speech coaching, body language help, nice suits etc, and come across way better. It is common sense to be President one must appear normal at minimum, the fact he did not try to in turn makes me doubt his mindset.

I agree. 

[24KT]

I'm talking about YOU right now. If YOU like ROn's policies, (which you said you do) why have you wasted effort and time constantly bringing up his dressing style and orating skill? Unless one means more to you than the other. Now do you understand what Im trying to say?

Maybe it's not so much that one means more to her than the others ...as much as it is one impacts the other.
It's like a condiment. Too much salt on your food makes it hard to savour. All you can think about is the salt.

I know exactly where she's coming from, because I get that same feeling from him as well, ...especially in that last link that MB_22 posted.

[Decker]

That isn't entirely accurate...whatever the employee pays the employer MATCHES.  I've seen this myself as I work for a small business.  That's what makes me angry about the situation.  Even half of the payroll tax is too much.

-The litigation for both SS and Medicare is a "contribution".  I find that to be a bit odd. 

I was by no means offended,(I can take more than that) and I know you did not author it, my point was it's just detrimental to an arguement if you are trying to convince people otherwise. 

-Why does it favor the rich with it being capped at $150,000?  Knowing that it is a "contribution", not only that, but if the rich plan for retirement during their working years, why should they pay for somebody else's? 

My recitation of the FICA rates is entirely accurate.  I admire Soc. Sec. b/c it has helped millions of people with a hand up, myself included..

The SS portion of FICA that's capped at 105,000 favors those that earn over 105,000 b/c those amounts are not subject to the 12% tax.  People earning less than 105,000 pay Soc. Sec tax on all their earnings. 

The reason why people, including the rich, should pay into Soc. Sec. is b/c it is a form of Social Insurance.  We fewer people in abject poverty and/or living on the street b/c of SS.  We have many old people that don't have to choose btn food and medicine.  We don't have widows and orphans living on the street b/c of SS.

All in all, I'd say SS benefits society in a way no other private or public program could.

[stormshadow]

I admire Soc. Sec. b/c it has helped millions of people with a hand up, myself included..

Most deadbeats do like free money.

[24KT]

Most deadbeats do like free money.

If you're paying for it, ...how is it free?

[stormshadow]

If you're paying for it, ...how is it free?

Because he used the word "helped"

Anytime I am "helped" that means value was given to me in excess of my own production.

[Bindare_Dundat]

Because he used the word "helped"

Anytime I am "helped" that means value was given to me in excess of my own production.

 You're talking to people who still fall for the slick, car salesman routine.

 Sound good, look better, buy crap.. again.

[Decker]

Most deadbeats do like free money.

What does that have to do with SS?

It seems that you are excessively selfish or miserly and without a care for your fellow man.

That's not rugged individualism.  That's just sad.

[Decker]

Because he used the word "helped"

Anytime I am "helped" that means value was given to me in excess of my own production.

Please.

You'd be nowhere other than living on a subway grate if it weren't for the help society has given you.

You ain't an island.

[Bindare_Dundat]

Perhaps if more able bodied people were allowed to keep more of their hard in dollars through less taxation, they wouldnt need to rely on government social programs as much as they do today? The more people there are that opt to get out of social programs and fend for themselves as they wish, frees up more money to those who truley can't help themselves.

The only thing that worries me about that, is how many people are responsible enough to save the extra money for emergency type situations, if they didn't have to pay income tax for example? But that initaial suffering may very well be the cost we have to pay for giving away our individual responsiblities to the government.

[Decker]

Perhaps if more able bodied people were allowed to keep more of their hard in dollars through less taxation, they wouldnt need to rely on government social programs as much as they do today? The more people there are that opt to get out of social programs and fend for themselves as they wish, frees up more money to those who truley can't help themselves.

The only thing that worries me about that, is how many people are responsible enough to save the extra money for emergency type situations, if they didn't have to pay income tax for example? But that initaial suffering may very well be the cost we have to pay for giving away our individual responsiblities to the government.

Less taxes would be a good thing. 

The vested business interests that are enriched by government subsidy, tax deferment or abatement and/or government R&D want the tax structure and gov gravy train the way it is.  The social programs that help indigents, widows, orphans, the disabled and the elderly are good.  That group is not comprised of 'able bodied' people and only the elderly have any voting power.

Taxes are the price of civilization. 

My own view is that gov should provide services and the private sector should provide services.  Whenever the private sector intermingles with government--contracts or such, invariably we see exploitation and the taxpayor getting screwed.  Just look at the billions 'lost' in Iraq.

[Benny B]

I like Ron Paul, but just to keep his candidacy in perspective, he got about million votes.  Jesse Jackson had about 6 million in one of his campaigns.  I wonder how many Al Sharpton got in 2004? 

Poor Bindare...

[Bindare_Dundat]

Poor Bindare...

Where you been Benny, getting ready for the march? 

[CQ]

The only thing that worries me about that, is how many people are responsible enough to save the extra money for emergency type situations, if they didn't have to pay income tax for example?

We have no income tax as I've said, and while [guessing] 70/80%  use our very high net wages to live a great life, and prepare for old age.....we still have a small segment that don't. There will always be twits unfortunately.

[stormshadow]

The social programs that help indigents, widows, orphans, the disabled and the elderly are good. 

Where do you draw the line Decker?

How about Single mom Whores with 4 kids they cannot support on their own, are these programs also good for them?

How about those that don't hurry to get another job, because they make out quite well with unemployment and WIC for their children.

How about those that cheat the system (and there are MANY of them) and get a doctor to say they are disabled and can't work, so they collect SSI.

And what about individuals like me that do nothing but PAY MANY TIMES THEIR FAIR SHARE IN TAXES, but take nothing out.

I've never once collected unemployment, food stamps, WIC, SSI, SS, the list goes on.

I don't even get the government subsidies for children because I am single with no kids.

Do you not see how I (the responsible) am punished, while the dead wood in society is rewarded?

On top of all this, and despite very tough financial times for myself, I still donate to charity. 

[Decker]

Where do you draw the line Decker?

Fraud.

...I've never once collected unemployment, food stamps, WIC, SSI, SS, the list goes on.

I don't even get the government subsidies for children because I am single with no kids.

You could not have earned one thin dime if it were not for the tax dollars of people that came before you.  Did you build your own roads and phone and satellite system.  Did you ever take out a student loan?  Do you pay for the federal R&D that supports our business infrastructure?  Do you print your own money?....

So you think the government, of the People and by the People, should let some of the people crash and burn b/c there some taxpayers out there too cheap to kick in some tax dollars that alleviate much suffering?

Do you not see how I (the responsible) am punished, while the dead wood in society is rewarded?

On top of all this, and despite very tough financial times for myself, I still donate to charity. 

Yours is the cry of the financial conservative elite--I'm taxed too much.  The Larry Kudlows of the world.

You know, you are right.

If those people that choose to be leeches are to die, then they best do it and decrease the surplus population.

Interfering with their just rewards for living irresponsibly is the worst sort of big government!

We can't afford to make idle people responsible.  I have been forced to support them through taxation, and God knows they cost more than they're worth. Those who are badly off must have only themselves to blame.

What else can I say when I live in a world full of fools babbling "More Social Programs" at one another? What're handouts but an opportunity for a free ride at another's expense? There's nothing free in that to me. If I could work my will, every idiot who goes about with "More Social Programs" on his lips should be boiled with his own pudding and buried with a steak of holly through his heart. 

For these leeches on society, are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

[24KT]

Stormshadow will be screaming for social programs when those "worthless" people decide to get off their butts and go to work: ie: committing B&E's, armed robberies & car jackings to support themselves. I mean, ...it's like thay can get a job... those are all being shipped to Mexico. He has no concept of how "social programs" and societal safety nets protect his ass. They exist for the protection of those who work, ...not for the benefit of those too lazy to.

[stormshadow]

Stormshadow will be screaming for social programs when those "worthless" people decide to get off their butts and go to work: ie: committing B&E's, armed robberies & car jackings to support themselves. I mean, ...it's like thay can get a job... those are all being shipped to Mexico. He has no concept of how "social programs" and societal safety nets protect his ass. They exist for the protection of those who work, ...not for the benefit of those too lazy to.

So you are saying that I should be happy to pay someone so they don't rob me?

Stick to pimping your fuel pills bitch.