Chiropractic Dangers

[bodybuildermdpitt]

I have a clinical question I am thinking of researching with a colleague of mine. It deals with neck readjustments and CVAs (strokes).  Have any of you guys had chronic neck readjustments from chiropractors? If so, what was the reason, and does it help? Also, did the chiropractor read any images for you, and try to diagnose you from his interpretation of the images? I am trying to start a study (obviously it is in its very early inception), as of now I am trying to get some basic brain storming ideas.

cheers,

bodybuildingmdpitt

 

[Brutal_1]

Is this another attempt of the AMA trying to discredit chiropractors?

[Moosejay]

I have a clinical question I am thinking of researching with a colleague of mine. It deals with neck readjustments and CVAs (strokes).  Have any of you guys had chronic neck readjustments from chiropractors? If so, what was the reason, and does it help? Also, did the chiropractor read any images for you, and try to diagnose you from his interpretation of the images? I am trying to start a study (obviously it is in its very early inception), as of now I am trying to get some basic brain storming ideas.

cheers,

bodybuildingmdpitt

 

I have adjusted over 135,000 patients in 18 years of being a chiropractor.

Never had one problem with one patient in  any way.

[bodybuildermdpitt]

Not at all... actually quite the opposite. However, I have an inkling that chiropractors that don't have chronic patients, don't read there own images, and work together with MDs (not for but together), actually may be quite effective. Many studies have been coming out that discredit neck readjustments, but these studies don't control for a lot of factors. I think there may be some benefit to these readjustments, I am just trying to figure out these controls so they can be statistically applied to future studies and help explain past studies. 

[240 is Back]

I have adjusted over 135,000 patients in 18 years of being a chiropractor.

Never had one problem with one patient in  any way.

I didn't get my happy ending, Doc.

[Moosejay]

Not at all... actually quite the opposite. However, I have an inkling that chiropractors that don't have chronic patients, don't read there own images, and work together with MDs (not for but together), actually may be quite effective. Many studies have been coming out that discredit neck readjustments, but these studies don't control for a lot of factors. I think there may be some benefit to these readjustments, I am just trying to figure out these controls so they can be statistically applied to future studies and help explain past studies. 

Statistically, a stroke MAY occur in one out of every 1 million neck adjustments.

And, people die EVERY DAY from/during surgery and/or medications.

Everything has +/-

[marcus]

I've had back problems for years and several months ago started seeing a chiropractor 1-2 times a week and it's definitely helped. I can't lift 'till it gets better but it's worth it. Here's the EMG results from my first day.

[Moosejay]

I didn't get my happy ending, Doc.

Sorry, bro, insurance doesn't pay for that in CT

[Moosejay]

I've had back problems for years and several months ago started seeing a chiropractor 1-2 times a week and it's definitely helped. I can't lift 'till it gets better but it's worth it. Here's the EMG results from my first day.

Hey, that's great!

Can't see the emg results, tho.

[bodybuildermdpitt]

Statistically, a stroke MAY occur in one out of every 1 million neck adjustments.

And, people die EVERY DAY from/during surgery and/or medications.

Everything has +/-

That is an extremely inaccurate statement. Strokes occur actually at quite an alarming rate especially for patients under the age of 45. In fact, many studies have shown statistically significant results.  I can PM you studies if you wish.

[Moosejay]

That is an extremely inaccurate statement. Strokes occur actually at quite an alarming rate especially for patients under the age of 45. In fact, many studies have shown statistically significant results.  I can PM you studies if you wish.

Nah. Thanks anyway.

I don't get caught up in all that jazz.

I am very conservative in practice, and just try to help as many people as I can.

Mike

[Brutal_1]

That is an extremely inaccurate statement. Strokes occur actually at quite an alarming rate especially for patients under the age of 45. In fact, many studies have shown statistically significant results.  I can PM you studies if you wish.

no, please, share it with us all

[Moosejay]

I've had back problems for years and several months ago started seeing a chiropractor 1-2 times a week and it's definitely helped. I can't lift 'till it gets better but it's worth it. Here's the EMG results from my first day.

Ahhh...the Myovision scan...I have one...great for patient education.

Yours doesn't look bad...usually want to match it with symptoms and progress in treatment.

You want the green bands to basically be balanced from side to side.

[marcus]

Ahhh...the Myovision scan...I have one...great for patient education.

Yours doesn't look bad...usually want to match it with symptoms and progress in treatment.

You want the green bands to basically be balanced from side to side.

It was the x-rays that were bad but I don't have copies of those. My neck angle is wrong, my spine has a curve between the shoulder blades, and my hips are at the wrong angle as well, on top of my spine being twisted. 

[Moosejay]

It was the x-rays that were bad but I don't have copies of those. My neck angle is wrong, my spine has a curve between the shoulder blades, and my hips are at the wrong angle as well, on top of my spine being twisted. 

Just make sure you have a good treatment goal...there is no need for lifetime treatment.

[JohnnyVegas]

I have adjusted over 135,000 patients in 18 years of being a chiropractor.

Never had one problem with one patient in  any way.

Moosejay;

135Kpatients/18 years = 7,500/year= /50weeks= 150week=/5days=30 patients per day=/8hours=3.75 patients per hour-everyday, 50 weeks per year for 18 years.......Me thinks MJ exaggerating.

[chaos]

Moosejay;

135Kpatients/18 years = 7,500/year= /50weeks= 150week=/5days=30 patients per day=/8hours=3.75 patients per hour-everyday, 50 weeks per year for 18 years.......Me thinks MJ exaggerating.

MooseJaw doesn't sleep, he's a neck snapping machine.

[Moosejay]

MooseJaw doesn't sleep, he's a neck snapping machine.

My overall average is 143 patient visits per week. I have devoted the early portion of my life to work. No exaggeration....there are guys that see 500 per week.

[chaos]

My overall average is 143 patient visits per week. I have devoted the early portion of my life to work. No exaggeration....there are guys that see 500 per week.

Can you post some kind of proof of your 135k patients? I'd love to see it.

[Krankenstein]

Not at all... actually quite the opposite. However, I have an inkling that chiropractors that don't have chronic patients, don't read there own images, and work together with MDs (not for but together), actually may be quite effective.

What do you mean dont read their own images??  As far as DC's working together with MD's....that will happen once MD's come around to accepting our practice.  As an example of a patient JUST THE PAST WEEK who has had ringing in her ears for the last SIX MONTHS:

Patient (to her MD) : I would like to try chiropractic care

MD: I suppose, but I cant see how it will help

Patient: Why do you not think it will help

MD: There is no proof it helps.  I think that you would be better off continuing with the Soma and possibly increasing your intake of ibuprofen.

Lets see...hmmm....as of today she has SIGNIFICANT less ringing in her ears.  I am not saying that chiropractic is the be-all, end-all.....but why is it so bad to give it a try as a conservative, non-invasive approach??

Can you post some kind of proof of your 135k patients? I'd love to see it.

Hmmm....let see....for me...8yrs in practice....average about 300 - 350 patient visits per week.  Proof?  Not ONE case of stroke against me.  Being that this is a VERY litigious (sp?) society....can you possibly think that if someone DID have a stroke I wouldnt be up to my ass in a lawsuit?

[chaos]

Hmmm....let see....for me...8yrs in practice....average about 300 - 350 patient visits per week.  Proof?  Not ONE case of stroke against me.  Being that this is a VERY litigious (sp?) society....can you possibly think that if someone DID have a stroke I wouldnt be up to my ass in a lawsuit?

So in 8 years you are claiming to have seen 124,000+ patients?

MooseJaw has been at it 18 years and he's only seen 135K patients, he also claims to work 80-90 hours a week. How do you manage to double his patients which he claims is about 143 per week? Do you work 160-180 hours a week?

[LATS]

  i have a best friend of mine who is a chiro and he does 3-4 patients a hour many days..

[chaos]

  i have a best friend of mine who is a chiro and he does 3-4 patients a hour many days..

4 patients, 10 hours, 40 per day, 200 per week, 10,400 per year, 8 years, 83,200 patients..........your "friend" is a slacker, MooseJaw and DF4L have him beat significantly, he needs to pick up the pace.

[McFarland]

Now wait a minute, he's claiming 135,000 unique patients or fucking patient visits?  I don't think there are 135,000 people in the whole state of CT, are there?   

 

[bodybuildermdpitt]

What do you mean dont read their own images??  As far as DC's working together with MD's....that will happen once MD's come around to accepting our practice.  As an example of a patient JUST THE PAST WEEK who has had ringing in her ears for the last SIX MONTHS:

Patient (to her MD) : I would like to try chiropractic care

MD: I suppose, but I cant see how it will help

Patient: Why do you not think it will help

MD: There is no proof it helps.  I think that you would be better off continuing with the Soma and possibly increasing your intake of ibuprofen.

Lets see...hmmm....as of today she has SIGNIFICANT less ringing in her ears.  I am not saying that chiropractic is the be-all, end-all.....but why is it so bad to give it a try as a conservative, non-invasive approach??

Hmmm....let see....for me...8yrs in practice....average about 300 - 350 patient visits per week.  Proof?  Not ONE case of stroke against me.  Being that this is a VERY litigious (sp?) society....can you possibly think that if someone DID have a stroke I wouldnt be up to my ass in a lawsuit?

Good thing I have call tonight, I guess posting makes the night go by faster. I will address all the issues you have brought up. Chiropractics should not under any circumstance diagnose any ailment through their interpretation of scans (CT or even X-ray). Quite frankly, you don't have the training to do it accurately. To be taken seriously you need to have your scans read by MSK radiologists. Many, many studies have shown that, unfortunately, you guys do not have uniform diagnoses on simple MSK complaints. Secondly, you have to address this issue of laxity of the ligaments secondary to chronic manipulations. Although this may surprise you, manipulations have a place in medicine, and should be done through physiatrists. Physiatry is a science, and unfortunately the other is modern day "quackery."