Ending the cardio debate

[Method101]

way to post the shittiest looking cyclist ever.
I posted a 100m world record holder and he had very little muscle, you talk right out of your ass.

[The Coach]

way to post the shittiest looking cyclist ever.
I posted a 100m world record holder and he had very little muscle, you talk right out of your ass.

hahaha, who do you think the pic I put up was? LOL........I don't give a shit, you can put up a pic of Lance Armstrong if it makes you feel better!

[pumpster]

Vince Gironda said the same thing 35 years ago. He talked about the muscular physiques or sprinters verses long distance runners. Many of his workouts were based on short rest periods (15 to 30 second rest periods) for weight training to duplicate the process.  

Phil Campbell's book “Ready, Set, GO” outlines his "Sprint 8 workout" based on this same concept. http://www.readysetgofitness.com/

While John Berardi’s article is scientifically sound and very informative, there's nothing new or innovative about what he’s saying.

It's like the guys writing books on low carb diets 35 years after they came out.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Precisely, all this is rehash of decades ago when i first read it. As far as the sprinter analogy, it makes total sense for lifting. As far as cardio, it's apples and oranges as to which approach is "better", they both have pros and cons. The most important thing isn't a debate as to which is supposedly better rather it's which one (or both in combo) appeals most to use over the long-term.

[MRMD2003]

Genetics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Either you have them or you don't.

[Van_Bilderass]

hahaha, who do you think the pic I put up was? LOL........I don't give a shit, you can put up a pic of Lance Armstrong if it makes you feel better!

From what I've read the sprinters do plenty of relatively low intensity cardio too. It's not all sprinting. You think Ben Johnson only did an HIIT circuit each day? Obviously not. You could also add a picture of a pro bodybuilder who does 4 hours of low intensity cardio pre-contest to "prove" that low intensity cardio is superior too. Pictorial comparisons like this don't prove the superiority of either type of cardio in itself.

The problem with HIIT is that it's often too intense when combined with a strict diet and heavy weight training.

[MAXX]

Genetics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Either you have them or you don't.

often a good excuse for people who look like shit.

[Croatch]

Brutal Comb Down to hide class 2b receding hairline

[Method101]

hahaha, who do you think the pic I put up was? LOL........I don't give a shit, you can put up a pic of Lance Armstrong if it makes you feel better!

[Zaphod]

Hard to accept, but it seems so.

I have high, idiopathic (unexplianed) venticular pressure, that gets inordinately elevated when I load.

That'd cancel out all lifting, according to my drs.

I am inclined to believe them.

what about very low weights for super slow high reps. I'm talking VERY light (20 lb curls etc.) There was this old dude at my gym that used to work out that way and he looked pretrty decent.

[Brutal_1]

what about very low weights for super slow high reps. I'm talking VERY light (20 lb curls etc.) There was this old dude at my gym that used to work out that way and he looked pretrty decent.

probably anything involving the vasalva maneuver is not a good idea 

[candidizzle]

ugh

your frustrating,

anyways, im leaving now..ill be back later

it really sucks having to take an old timer with suppsedly "all this expeeience and knowledge" to school.   

ill leave you with one correction...    cardio does not lose its effeciency, coach. in fact, the more you do it the more effecient of a fat burner you become. 

theres one premise blown out of the water.

the rest come later.

[The Coach]

ugh

your frustrating,

anyways, im leaving now..ill be back later

it really sucks having to take an old timer with suppsedly "all this expeeience and knowledge" to school.   

ill leave you with one correction...    cardio does not lose its effeciency, coach. in fact, the more you do it the more effecient of a fat burner you become. 

theres one premise blown out of the water.

the rest come later.

I forgot 19 and knows it all.

[240 is Back]

I forgot 19 and knows it all.

Debate his point.  Own him that way.

There are 19 year olds who would own both you and I in a lot of subject areas, joe.  Dissing him for his age is unfair.

Tell us why he's wrong about cardio efficiency improving with more volume, not decreasing as he claims.  Cite your own experiences, or some clinical research, or both.  I like this topic and I'd like to see you both support your beliefs so we can all learn more.

[The Master]

Debate his point.  Own him that way.

There are 19 year olds who would own both you and I in a lot of subject areas, joe.  Dissing him for his age is unfair.

Tell us why he's wrong about cardio efficiency improving with more volume, not decreasing as he claims.  Cite your own experiences, or some clinical research, or both.  I like this topic and I'd like to see you both support your beliefs so we can all learn more.

Agreed, 240 brings the wisdom.

[Moosejay]

Interesting thread, at least for a cardio newb like me.


That sucks Moose, sorry to hear that. At least you're still breathing. I'm sure with a good diet (omega-3's), regular cardio, maybe meditation (for stress),... you'll outlive most of your peers.


Yes, Faust, I do everything positive that I can.

[Moosejay]

what about very low weights for super slow high reps. I'm talking VERY light (20 lb curls etc.) There was this old dude at my gym that used to work out that way and he looked pretrty decent.

Yes. If and when I get back to weights, this is my likely approach and progression.

I never lifted very heavy, relatively speaking, anyhow....concentrated on mind-muscle link, which served me well, development wise.

[Moosejay]

probably anything involving the vasalva maneuver is not a good idea 

For now, at least, this is likely true.

[The Coach]

Debate his point.  Own him that way.

There are 19 year olds who would own both you and I in a lot of subject areas, joe.  Dissing him for his age is unfair.

Tell us why he's wrong about cardio efficiency improving with more volume, not decreasing as he claims.  Cite your own experiences, or some clinical research, or both.  I like this topic and I'd like to see you both support your beliefs so we can all learn more.

I have been, why do you think I brought this to the G&O to settle the debate? Haven't you been following?

[240 is Back]

I have been, why do you think I brought this to the G&O to settle the debate? Haven't you been following?

I'm reading the threads, and noticed it was about to disintegrate into a "you're young and you don't know what you're talking about" vs. "you're old and don't know what you're talking about" level.

[flexingtonsteele]

I'm reading the threads, and noticed it was about to disintegrate into a "you're young and you don't know what you're talking about" vs. "you're old and don't know what you're talking about" level.

He's talking about this http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=220625.0

I agree with coach actually, I think HIIT cardio is great, but I dont think he reads my post, or he's just so into himself that he has to be right and everything else is wrong.

All I was saying was, neither one is better than the other IMHO. Both have their places. For the average joe trying to lose fat or a bb on a mod-high carb diet, I'd recommend HIIT.

BUT! for a bodybuilder on a keto diet ( which is so popular nowadays) IMO its no question that long duration low intensity cardio is better.

But Coach seems to think that a person who isnt going to eat carbs for 4 months is going to benefit doing exercise that mainly looks for glycogen for energy. But what do I know. I only have a BS in Kinesiology and Health, personal trained clients with success doing both methods and have gone to numerous seminars from staley to lowry to thibadeau and many others. Fuck what do i know.

[Emmortal]

He's talking about this http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=220625.0

I agree with coach actually, I think HIIT cardio is great, but I dont think he reads my post, or he's just so into himself that he has to be right and everything else is wrong.

All I was saying was, neither one is better than the other IMHO. Both have their places. For the average joe trying to lose fat or a bb on a mod-high carb diet, I'd recommend HIIT.

BUT! for a bodybuilder on a keto diet ( which is so popular nowadays) IMO its no question that long duration low intensity cardio is better.

But Coach seems to think that a person who isnt going to eat carbs for 4 months is going to benefit doing exercise that mainly looks for glycogen for energy. But what do I know. I only have a BS in Kinesiology and Health, personal trained clients with success doing both methods and have gone to numerous seminars from staley to lowry to thibadeau and many others. Fuck what do i know.

I think even BB'rs not on Keto diets, slower cardio is always better.  BB'rs nutritional requirements are far different from average people and athletes in general.  Spending carbs for fuel on HIIT isn't exactly the most efficient way of energy utilization when those needs are better served elsewhere.  That's why BB'rs tried and true preferred method of fat burning is slow cardio in a depleted glycogen state i.e. first thing in the morning on empty stomach or immediately after a work out.

HIIT definitely has it's place, but as Flex states, it's situationally dependent on which one you should use and what goals you have as an individual.

[flexingtonsteele]

I think even BB'rs not on Keto diets, slower cardio is always better.  BB'rs nutritional requirements are far different from average people and athletes in general.  Spending carbs for fuel on HIIT isn't exactly the most efficient way of energy utilization when those needs are better served elsewhere.  That's why BB'rs tried and true preferred method of fat burning is slow cardio in a depleted glycogen state i.e. first thing in the morning on empty stomach or immediately after a work out.

HIIT definitely has it's place, but as Flex states, it's situationally dependent on which one you should use and what goals you have as an individual.

yea very true. I think bodybuilders not on a keto diet......Like the mod-high carb diets do well with a mixture of HIIT and low intensity cardio like if they are doing four sessions a week, three low intensity sessions and one HIIT sessions works very well. I know Layme Norton does this with his guys, and a few others prep guys do as well, and it really seems to work wonders.

[candidizzle]

good to see coach's lack of response was his admittal that he was wrong

 

at the moment i am not too energetic and dont feel like writing up a synapsis here for joe... so ill wait to see if he posts anythign relevant that actually needs to  be rubutted...

[flexingtonsteele]

good to see coach's lack of response was his admittal that he was wrong

 

What do you mean? Coach is never wrong. Just re read. Actually Coach doesnt even respond to your rebuttle he just keeps going on to prove his point, its an amazing way or arguing. U should try it out.   http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=220625.0 ...........the coach IS NEVER WRONG!

[G o a t b o y]

.