MMA will get you killed in the street!

[Bluto]

No I'm saying a lot of fans who watch MMA, wear their Tapout shorts and Affliction T-shirts and take one MMA class and think they know how to fight or defend themselves.  Why do you think MMA has such a strong following?  You think it's because these guys come off such great conditioned athletes?  You think it's because these guys are so good looking?  Do you think it's because it's so exciting to watch two sweaty men roll around on the ground in blood and sweat?  No it's because in the back of the minds of most of the fans they think art imitates life when it comes to MMA.  They think that the BJ Pens of the world or the George St. Pierres of the world are the toughest, baddest fighters because they do MMA.  George St. Pierre probably wouldn't last a minute in a real fight with someone twice his size.   

in general i think people are pretty aware of the difference weight does.
thats why there's weight classes.

[Benny B]

Do you even remember the point of this thread?  I mean hell I wonder if you even read my first post.  People that watch MMA i.e. the stupid fans think they can apply MMA to the street.  Hell most of the MMA fighters walk around like billy bad ass thinking they can do what they do in the ring with rules and a soft matt to roll around on out in the street.  That's what I'm saying.  Everyone things MMA is so cool and so bad ass.  They don't realize that it's a SPORT with rules and weight classes.  How come you never see BJ Penn fight a guy like Ken Shamrock?  Hence why a lot of martial arts are useless in the street as they don't take into account someone being much bigger and stronger than you. 

Yep. No rules or weight classes in an alleyway outside of a club at 3am.


I'm sure many of you all saw the fight that broke out on TUF one season outside of the house. Dude tried to pull guard and got his head slammed into the concrete. In the street he likely would be slammed harder and his skull cracked. 


One thing you have to give mma fighters credit for MuscleMcManus is attributes training. They do spend a lot of time conditioning themselves and learning how to throw and take punches. This can only help in a street altercation, although I don't you want to be trading punches like a brawler in a real fight. A pair of brass knuckles or a set of keys could make that a big mistake.

youre saying the world is full of mma fans that tries to beat up people twice their size in the street?

never heard of that.

idiot

[MuscleMcMannus]

in general i think people are pretty aware of the difference weight does.
thats why there's weight classes.

EXACTLY!!!!!!! Dude you obviously do not spend much time with people in the martial arts or MMA community.  If you did you'd understand what I'm talking about.  I have friends that train in BJJ/grappling and some of the shit that comes out of their mouth in regards to real life fighting is just downright crazy.  I'd do this or I'd do that.  I'd try to put an arm bar on a guy holding a gun to my head!  LOL.  Yeah ok!

[Bluto]

EXACTLY!!!!!!! Dude you obviously do not spend much time with people in the martial arts or MMA community.  If you did you'd understand what I'm talking about.  I have friends that train in BJJ/grappling and some of the shit that comes out of their mouth in regards to real life fighting is just downright crazy.  I'd do this or I'd do that.  I'd try to put an arm bar on a guy holding a gun to my head!  LOL.  Yeah ok!

maybe it's an american teenage-thing.

im no teengar. and im not american. so i cant relate to that stuff. sorry.

but the videos you showed were equally as silly, in their own way.

[MuscleMcMannus]

Yep. No rules or weight classes in an alleyway outside of a club at 3am.


I'm sure many of you all saw the fight that broke out on TUF one season outside of the house. Dude tried to pull guard and got his head slammed into the concrete. In the street he likely would be slammed harder and his skull cracked. 


One thing you have to give mma fighters credit for MuscleMcManus is attributes training. They do spend a lot of time conditioning themselves and learning how to throw and take punches. This can only help in a street altercation, although I don't you want to be trading punches like a brawler in a real fight. A pair of brass knuckles or a set of keys could make that a big mistake.
idiot

You're rigth and don't take my other post where I said "because people watch them because they are great athletes......" as a slam.  Regardless of "athletic" ability they are some of the most conditioned people around.  I've seen the workouts Randy Couture put himself through.  

Ok take Kimbo Slice for example.  In ALL those stupid ass street fights when did ANYONE try to kick him in his knee or in his groin?  Kimbo Slice is a joke!   The dude probably can't lift his leg past his knee to kick.  

[Bluto]

You're rigth and don't take my other post where I said "because people watch them because they are great athletes......" as a slam.  Regardless of "athletic" ability they are some of the most conditioned people around.  I've seen the workouts Randy Couture put himself through. 

Ok take Kimbo Slice for example.  In ALL those stupid ass street fights when did ANYONE try to kick him in his knee or in his groin?  Kimbo Slice is a joke!   The dude probably can't lift his leg past his knee to kick. 

kimbo is the real deal. and kicking is pretty worthless on the street.

[MuscleMcMannus]

maybe it's an american teenage-thing.

im no teengar. and im not american. so i cant relate to that stuff. sorry.

but the videos you showed were equally as silly, in their own way.

Did you even watch this video?  Everything he says is spot on.  

[Bluto]

Did you even watch this video?  Everything he says is spot on. 

how do you know? how does HE know?

[Benny B]

Ok take Kimbo Slice for example.  In ALL those stupid ass street fights when did ANYONE try to kick him in his knee or in his groin?  Kimbo Slice is a joke!   The dude probably can't lift his leg past his knee to kick. 

Well, my posts in support Kimbo here would show that I don't agree with this. lol My posts about Kimbo are mostly in jest, as I know he is not a great mma fighter. However, he would knock MOST dudes out in a street fight, period. He is big, strong, and aggressive with quick hands.

You have to realize the average dude on the street does not know how to throw a kick. People consider a "fair" one-on-one fight as two dudes going at it with their fists. So yeah, your average well trained martial artist would consider kicking Kimbo in the groin if they had to fight him, but that is not the way most thugs and street fighters think.

[MuscleMcMannus]

kimbo is the real deal. and kicking is pretty worthless on the street.

haha this shows you know absolutely nothing about street fighting nor self defense.  A kick to the shin, the groin or the knee cap is VERY EFFECTIVE!  Now some roundhouse flying kick three feet off the ground yes is worthless.  But kicks below the waist are VERY EFFECTIVE!  It's called kuntao kicking.  

&feature=related

[Bluto]

haha this shows you know absolutely nothing about street fighting nor self defense.  A kick to the shin, the groin or the knee cap is VERY EFFECTIVE!  Now some roundhouse flying kick three feet off the ground yes is worthless.  But kicks below the waist are VERY EFFECTIVE!  It's called kuntao kicking. 

&feature=related

effective how? what do you think you will accomplish by kicking someone to the shin?

[MuscleMcMannus]

Well, my posts in support Kimbo here would show that I don't agree with this. lol My posts about Kimbo are mostly in jest, as I know he is not a great mma fighter. However, he would knock MOST dudes out in a street fight, period. He is big, strong, and aggressive with quick hands.

You have to realize the average dude on the street does not know how to throw a kick. People consider a "fair" one-on-one fight as two dudes going at it with their fists. So yeah, your average well trained martial artist would consider kicking Kimbo in the groin if they had to fight him, but that is not the way most thugs and street fighters think.

No that's not the way most "fighters" think.  If you truly understand self defense and street fighting you understand biting, eye gouging, kicks to the groin, the knees, the shins etc.  You ever stubbed your shin against a metal pole or the edge of a bed?  It hurts and it makes you hobble for a split second.  Plus my leg is much longer than someone throwing a punch.  

[Bluto]

No that's not the way most "fighters" think.  If you truly understand self defense and street fighting you understand biting, eye gouging, kicks to the groin, the knees, the shins etc.  You ever stubbed your shin against a metal pole or the edge of a bed?  It hurts and it makes you hobble for a split second.  Plus my leg is much longer than someone throwing a punch. 

all that stuff is bullshit. hurt dont mean shit.

[MuscleMcMannus]

effective how? what do you think you will accomplish by kicking someone to the shin?

Dude if I'm some guy at a fucking bar and you walk up to me and get in my face and there's only 5-6 inches between us if I nail you in your goddamn shin with the side of my shoe or my boot you're gonna fucking hobble like a girl for a split second.  You've obviously have never been kicked in your shin.  Same thing if I knee you in the side of your thigh.  At these distances you cannot fathom throwing a punch.  But you can most definitely throw a head butt, a knee to the thigh or groin, or to the shin or knee cap.  

[MuscleMcMannus]

all that stuff is bullshit. hurt dont mean shit.

Dude you're missing my point.  You obviously didn' watch the video.  Do you understand what chaning the focus means?  Do you understand the concept of body mechanics?  Do you understand that if I hit you in your fucking nuts your head comes forward or if I blast you in your face your groin comes forward.......i.e. the high lo concept. 

[Bluto]

stop dreaming and start fighting.

in czech we fight every month on the street in football season

[*ChuteBoxe*]

stop dreaming and start fighting.

in czech we fight every month on the street in football season

Wow,
all that proved is that Czech = tomato cans of hooligans.  A bunch of pasty beanpoles playin grab ass shirtless, pretty funny actually.

[Bluto]

Wow,
all that proved is that Czech = tomato cans of hooligans.  A bunch of pasty beanpoles playin grab ass shirtless, pretty funny actually.

shirtless is for recognition. helps when youre several hundred fighting for real on the street.

[MuscleMcMannus]

shirtless is for recognition. helps when youre several hundred fighting for real on the street.

In real street fight you wouldn't get to go home to your wife and kids......you'd either go to the hospital or the morgue.  How well you defend yourself would dictate where you end up. 

[UGMT]

This thread is getting a little absurd.. bottom line is training MMA will almost certainly give you an advantage if you are assaulted on the street. Similar to what americanbulldog said at the very least it gives you experience against a live resisting opponent. If you don't want to believe this or don't agree thats fine. If you are stupid enough to pull guard or something when there are potentially multiple attackers, maybe you should get your head stomped I don't know. And if you want to think that this Van Jitsu guy or whatever is the be all end all of "street" defense that's fine too. Bottom line is there are a million plus variables for situations that could arise on the "street" and some techniques will work better than others at different times. I think that is fair, no? I mean you guys are starting to sound like the BJJ vs TMA guys on sherdog with this crap.

[americanbulldog]

There is no such thing as no rules.  If there were no rules people would die or in the least be maimed for life.  You can recover from a snapped arm or a broken leg.  You can't recover from someone shoving their thumb through your eyeball or ripping your ear off.  Since you are a practitioner of BJJ I'd like to ask you a question.  When you are rolling around with someone on the mat what's to prevent someone from hammering you in your groin and biting a chunk out of your arm or leg?  Shihan John Petrone of Defense Institute in Colordo Springs was named Jiu Jitsu man of the year at one point.  He's actually grappled with some of the Gracies.  I'd like for you to ask your instructor about him.  Here's his myspace page.  Email him and ask him.  Tell him what you think.  He'll give you a very intelligent, fair and honest answer.  

http://www.myspace.com/vajcsco

Carlos Valente was in Hawaii first, he convinced Relson to move to Hawaii.  Relson, Rorian and Royce went "dojo storming" in Hawaii to build up their initial student base.  They fought anyone, under the rules of the instructor in question.  I was a wing chun instructor at the time, myself, along with 32 others were taken down, slapped silly and eventually submitted by Relson, Rorian, Royce.  We tried poking them in the eyes, kicking them in the groin, one of my friend's tried "clawing" their necks.  Same result occured with EVERYONE.  And we don't have mats in chinatown, it was done on the concrete.  29 people signed up for "Gracie Jiujitsu" three decided to try and find solutions within the the wing chun system.  I have practiced wing chun/JKD concepts prolly fifty or sixty times since, and that was 1993.  At Relson's original academy at UH, it was right next to Master Kham's muay thai school, constant fights between schools, I trained at both places, so stayed out of the fray.  Many a people came down to UH, and challenged Relson, most were beat on by purples and blues.  Trust me when I say this, getting that groin shot in aint as easy as you think when you are getting punched/kicked and trying to defend the takedown.  Once the other guy is on the ground, and he has given up top, it is GAME OVER.  I have seen many a folk eat a leg kick to deliver a straight cross and KO someone. 

[MuscleMcMannus]

Like everyone, I just gotta throw my .02 in on this topic.

First of all, I think most real-life altercations you can't get out of happen in bars, nightclubs, parking lots, sporting arenas, living rooms (when strangers are gathered at someone's house or apartment), driveways outside of said apartments or houses if owner can get them out, actual streets, and if you're unfortunate enough, classrooms or prison environments.

In most of those cases, you are in closed quarters, are trading words closely before the s--- hits the fan, have stuff all around you and other people to either also mix it up or break it up.

In many of these cases, logistics do not allow a takedown or any kind of kicking other than their shin or knee, hampering one's use of bjj, or martial arts or thai kicking.  Also, unless one is fighting a truly ruthless individual (of which there certainly are such people, though not a high percentage, thankfully - unless your fight is in a prison environment -), there will be no biting, use of weapon, eye gouging, fish-hooking, or ear-ripping.  Throats, knees, and groins, I'm afraid, could be fair game, however.  Along with a square temple shot or straight shot to the chin, they are the places that will finish you most quickly, imo.

I thus always advocate traditional western boxing, i.e. the art and science of fast, accurate, economic, devestating punching and punching combinations (along with moving, covering up, slipping and parrying) to defend oneself in real-life altercations.  It's what best serves the average logistics, it's moderately easy to learn on a base level, and it is the quickest way to defend yourself, imo.  Add the muay thai clinch and use of your knees with it, and I honestly think that's the best recipe to defend oneself in most real-life situations.       

           

       

I agree, boxing is very useful overall compared to most martial "arts".  However, it absolutely is useless when someone tries to choke you out, grabs you from behind, puts you in a head lock, or when someone is twice your size.  Dirty fighting is even better than boxing, especially in close quarters.  Someone gets me in a muay thai clinch I'll fucking shove my thumbs throug his eyeballs. 

[MuscleMcMannus]

LOL...  You would be in that percentage of guys I would never wanna fight then! 

Nah bro I'm just saying that's the difference between defending yourself and "fighting" another guy.  I think in all seriousness it's hard for people to differentiate between the two.  And it's very dangerous for people to take a martial arts class thinking that what they are learning is applicable when some dude twice your size grabs you by the shirt and tells you he's gonna kill you.  Especially women.  All these women I see taking these Tae Kwon Do classes and karate classes for self defense. 

Here read Shihan Petrone's philosophy on women's self defense.  He's had women actually use his techniques to save their lives. 

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=100644960&blogID=394826626

[onlyme]

Carlos Valente was in Hawaii first, he convinced Relson to move to Hawaii.  Relson, Rorian and Royce went "dojo storming" in Hawaii to build up their initial student base.  They fought anyone, under the rules of the instructor in question.  I was a wing chun instructor at the time, myself, along with 32 others were taken down, slapped silly and eventually submitted by Relson, Rorian, Royce.  We tried poking them in the eyes, kicking them in the groin, one of my friend's tried "clawing" their necks.  Same result occured with EVERYONE.  And we don't have mats in chinatown, it was done on the concrete.  29 people signed up for "Gracie Jiujitsu" three decided to try and find solutions within the the wing chun system.  I have practiced wing chun/JKD concepts prolly fifty or sixty times since, and that was 1993.  At Relson's original academy at UH, it was right next to Master Kham's muay thai school, constant fights between schools, I trained at both places, so stayed out of the fray.  Many a people came down to UH, and challenged Relson, most were beat on by purples and blues.  Trust me when I say this, getting that groin shot in aint as easy as you think when you are getting punched/kicked and trying to defend the takedown.  Once the other guy is on the ground, and he has given up top, it is GAME OVER.  I have seen many a folk eat a leg kick to deliver a straight cross and KO someone. 

Relson taught out of his house before UH when he lived right behind Kalani High.  I also helped Relson and got him a segment on Hawaiian Moving Company which really got his business going.

[onlyme]

Kev, who was the Gracie my friend Craig Kukuk was a partner with.