Author Topic: this getbigger (mesomorph) claims natural... (Read 100331 times)

SweetMuscles · « **Reply #575 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:09:52 PM »

Chaos my man,

Why do you think they do polygraphs and blood tests at the big natural shows?
Because people lie like crazy. The fact is that this isn't cut and dried. A lot of guys don't believe him and a few do. Believe me, there will be a ton reading this thread knowing that this is bullshit that he's natural and eats only junk and what has mom cooks and has never heard of pro-hormones (that alone rings alarm bells that he claims that shit after being on this site 4 years and immersed in gym life) but they just don't want the hassle of getting involved and getting the guys going 'you're just bitter/jealous'.

If he is truly natural and can have that muscularity at that bodyfat, not to mention strength, without cannibilizing way more muscle mass then we are seeing genetics better than Flex Wheeler's. Let's at least be clear on that and drop the 'I got a black man in my toolshed who is bigger and more ripped and I only feed him daffodil bulbs' bullshit.

slaveboy1980 · « **Reply #576 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:10:29 PM »

Quote from: SweetMuscles on July 06, 2008, 04:54:18 PM

Ok, seriously then. let's debate and not get personal and ultimately if we disagree we disagree.
I posted pics of dudes from the pre-steroid era as that is a time that people often use as an example as people can't lie about using as, obviously, it was an era before steroids.
We all agreed that he destroys these guys. I also appealed to science and explained some facts about human physiology , example:
Now, everyone on this thread seems to know black men who look as good as this guy or better and who are natural. Where are these guys? I know plenty of blacks and don't see any naturals that look as good as he is, or have his strength. Certainly not natural.
So let's keep it friendly and have a debate, please post pics to nattys who look like this guy . I even saw one guy saying he saw 15 year old naturals lifting more and looking better. It's hard to take that shit seriously.

who said only black guys? my good friend who is originally from albania has never used steroids, he is benching slightly less than meso but he is basically the same height as meso 180cm and weighs 90kg in good form. his cousin (his training partner) has identical stats. i have known several more guys with similar stats. remember we are not talking about 180cm and 100kg ripped...thats a totally different story. and im not gonna post his pics online, as some kind of proof. why? first of all, whats to say he wont be accused of using?....it proves nothing. and secondly i doubt he wants a bunch of homos wanking to his pics

..........thats why i said its basically no debate. because i KNOW its possible to achieve what meso has done naturally (not for everyone tho). some people dont wanna believe it, and nothing i say will convince them otherwise.

and its no myth that black guys (with ancestors from western africa) have the best genetics to build muscle.

mesmorph78 · « **Reply #577 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:11:41 PM »

no... i have taken what you have said into consideration..
i only ever go for my max... once a year.. to test myself.. every february...me and my bro and friends make a vid... we havent done one one this year as yet.. when we do i'll try what you said

slaveboy1980 · « **Reply #578 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:11:53 PM »

Quote from: mesmorph78 on July 06, 2008, 05:02:55 PM

five reps with 135.. or 225 would be pointless...
...i want not only strength but endurance as well..
i can rep 225 for maybe 40.. at least no point doing it for 5...
honestly i think 405 is my max for now...
feels different on my body ..
but i'll soon be smashing it...
i nearly did a double last time i tried..
...

by all means do you thing. but what you wrote is bs. with smarter training you would be moving even more impressive numbers.

chaos · « **Reply #579 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:14:15 PM »

Quote from: SweetMuscles on July 06, 2008, 05:09:52 PM

Chaos my man,

Why do you think they do polygraphs and blood tests at the big natural shows?
Because people lie like crazy. The fact is that this isn't cut and dried. A lot of guys don't believe him and a few do. Believe me, there will be a ton reading this thread knowing that this is bullshit that he's natural and eats only junk and what has mom cooks and has never heard of pro-hormones (that alone rings alarm bells that he claims that shit after being on this site 4 years and immersed in gym life) but they just don't want the hassle of getting involved and getting the guys going 'you're just bitter/jealous'.

If he is truly natural and can have that muscularity at that bodyfat, not to mention strength, without cannibilizing way more muscle mass then we are seeing genetics better than Flex Wheeler's. Let's at least be clear on that and drop the 'I got a black man in my toolshed who is bigger and more ripped and I only feed him daffodil bulbs' bullshit.

First, welcome back from Timeout.

Second, I have no horse in this race, I could give a shit less either way. BUT, he claims natural, it's his body, only he knows. You claim he's not natural, your proof? Old ass pictures of guys that had very little understanding of building bodies. The only way to prove it is what? have Meso meet you somewhere and you guys can go in and do a drug test, maybe he'll let you hold it for him.

Seriously, you're getting way too worked up over something you will NEVER be able to prove/disprove.

SweetMuscles · « **Reply #580 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:20:47 PM »

Quote from: chaos on July 06, 2008, 05:14:15 PM

First, welcome back from Timeout.

Second, I have no horse in this race, I could give a shit less either way. BUT, he claims natural, it's his body, only he knows. You claim he's not natural, your proof? Old ass pictures of guys that had very little understanding of building bodies. The only way to prove it is what? have Meso meet you somewhere and you guys can go in and do a drug test, maybe he'll let you hold it for him.

Seriously, you're getting way too worked up over something you will NEVER be able to prove/disprove.

I'm not worked up. I'm debating on a forum. Those 'old ass' pictures are a damn site more than anyone else has come up with. At least I made some effort rather than just keep saying 'he's natural' over and over. I posted pictures and produced rational, scientific reasons why he isn't. In terms of actual debating, I have owned everyone on this thread.

candidizzle · « **Reply #581 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:22:52 PM »

hey whats up everybody. my name is alfred manjables.

heres a picture of me.

i am lifetime natural and i LOVE eating nacho cheese chalupa's from taco bell. i dont have much of an appetite, so normalli have some coffee in the morning, then at dinner i eat at the BELL !

my training is two times per week with those pink dumbells you find at the end of the weight rack. i use them to shadow box for 10 minutes.

chaos · « **Reply #582 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:23:53 PM »

Quote from: SweetMuscles on July 06, 2008, 05:20:47 PM

I'm not worked up. I'm debating on a forum. Those 'old ass' pictures are a damn site more than anyone else has come up with. At least I made some effort rather than just keep saying 'he's natural' over and over. I posted pictures and produced rational, scientific reasons why he isn't. In terms of actual debating, I have owned everyone on this thread.

**sighhhhhh* OK........this guy is all natural.

If you disagree, then you are disagreeing just to argue, just like I claimed you would, right?

SweetMuscles · « **Reply #583 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:28:27 PM »

And I must correct you on something else as it was a deeply ignorant comment.
The pre-steroid era guys did not have 'very little understanding of building bodies' that is bullshit dude.
They had a superb understanding of building natural physiques. Most top naturals train using programmes virtually identical to the ones used then.

They understood better than virtually any of the junkies of today how to train drug free.

Their principles were pretty much what training has turned back to:

Whole food instead of an over-reliance on powders and the like. Lots of steak and eggs. Tons of green veggies and wholegrain carbs. They focused a lot on strength and in compound exercises. They had plenty of rest thrown in there.
They knew everything about training without drugs that seriously alter the human body on a number of different levels all relevant to weight training.

thelamefalsehood · « **Reply #584 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:34:05 PM »

Quote from: SweetMuscles on July 06, 2008, 04:54:18 PM

Ok, seriously then. let's debate and not get personal and ultimately if we disagree we disagree.
I posted pics of dudes from the pre-steroid era as that is a time that people often use as an example as people can't lie about using as, obviously, it was an era before steroids.
We all agreed that he destroys these guys. I also appealed to science and explained some facts about human physiology , example:
Now, everyone on this thread seems to know black men who look as good as this guy or better and who are natural. Where are these guys? I know plenty of blacks and don't see any naturals that look as good as he is, or have his strength. Certainly not natural.
So let's keep it friendly and have a debate, please post pics to nattys who look like this guy . I even saw one guy saying he saw 15 year old naturals lifting more and looking better. It's hard to take that shit seriously.

I said something like that earlier, but because I since you are slightly retarded, I'll explain more. What I meant was I played football in highscool with guys who weighed as much or more than meso, say from 195 to 215, none as low in bodyfat, but still close. I said the guys I knew could rep out with 225, which equals 10-15 reps to me. I knew these guys for the 4 years in school, from ages 15 to 18. Of course none were that big and strong at 15, I thought you would figure that.The most built and strongest was at the latter years of highschool after a few years of lifting under their belt. Hell, when I was in highschool at age 18 as a Senior, I benched 285 for a single on FBP. Not a record, but good for a kid who just ate and took the original EAS Phosphagen Creatine. You must really have shit genetics or have juiced before you discovered what you were capable of naturally. Its pretty sad the way you come down on Meso when everyone else agrees he's clean, even most of the guys who juice think he is clean man

SweetMuscles · « **Reply #585 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:35:23 PM »

Quote from: thelamefalsehood on July 06, 2008, 05:34:05 PM

I said something like that earlier, but because I since you are slightly retarded,

chaos · « **Reply #586 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:36:44 PM »

Quote from: SweetMuscles on July 06, 2008, 05:28:27 PM

And I must correct you on something else as it was a deeply ignorant comment.
The pre-steroid era guys did not have 'very little understanding of building bodies' that is bullshit dude.
They had a superb understanding of building natural physiques. Most top naturals train using programmes virtually identical to the ones used then.

They understood better than virtually any of the junkies of today how to train drug free.

Their principles were pretty much what training has turned back to:

Whole food instead of an over-reliance on powders and the like. Lots of steak and eggs. Tons of green veggies and wholegrain carbs. They focused a lot on strength and in compound exercises. They had plenty of rest thrown in there.
They knew everything about training without drugs that seriously alter the human body on a number of different levels all relevant to weight training.

Maybe you could pull one of the training regimines those old ass guys followed and show us how it coincides with todays "natural" trainers?

Another question......do you believe Chris Faildo is 100% lifetime natural, as he has passed every drug test ever given to him, even ones by the Army National Guard for 22 years.

Quote from: chris faildo on July 06, 2008, 05:26:46 PM

Fatpanda, thanks for starting this- I am not only natural but a LIFETIME drug free IFBB Pro. How's that! I've been doing this for 27 years busting my ass not only in the gym but everything that has to do with trying to be the best Natural Bodybuilder in the World. I have never used any type of Steriods, Growth, insulin, clen, diuretic or any drug to help me reach my goals. I will challenge anyone who think i'm lying by taking urine or blood test ANYTIME. I have pasted every polygraph and urine test for all of the Team Universe shows and also at the World Championships. I am retired from the Army National Guard with 22 years of service and have pasted all of there drug test too. Come on guys- why would I make this shit up? Try spending a day, week, month, year with me before accusing me of something that I have never done. Better yet, order my DVD"Hurricane Warning" at www.cfaildo.com shot by Mitsuru Okabe and watch the interview part. You will understand more about who Chris Faildo really is. For those of you who still don't believe me- thanks for the compliment, you are the ones that keeps my fire burning everyday at 42 years of age......202lbs. coming soon!

It appears to me he is as muscular and full and even more ripped than Meso, and he has passed every drug test.

candidizzle · « **Reply #587 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:37:33 PM »

guys, this is a picture of my relative capriese

he is a lifetime natural and hardly trains

his diet consists of skittlez and cherry cola

i dont know whats so hard to beliueve about this guy beign natural

slaveboy1980 · « **Reply #588 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:38:21 PM »

Quote from: SweetMuscles on July 06, 2008, 05:09:52 PM

Chaos my man,

Why do you think they do polygraphs and blood tests at the big natural shows?
Because people lie like crazy. The fact is that this isn't cut and dried. A lot of guys don't believe him and a few do. Believe me, there will be a ton reading this thread knowing that this is bullshit that he's natural and eats only junk and what has mom cooks and has never heard of pro-hormones (that alone rings alarm bells that he claims that shit after being on this site 4 years and immersed in gym life) but they just don't want the hassle of getting involved and getting the guys going 'you're just bitter/jealous'.

If he is truly natural and can have that muscularity at that bodyfat, not to mention strength, without cannibilizing way more muscle mass then we are seeing genetics better than Flex Wheeler's. Let's at least be clear on that and drop the 'I got a black man in my toolshed who is bigger and more ripped and I only feed him daffodil bulbs' bullshit.

speculation:

first of all, whats to say that meso cant have even better genetics than flex. i bet there are alot of people who dont give a rats ass about competitive bb who have amazing genetics. i dont think that pro genetics are so rare as some people want to believe.

i believe flex wheelers 'natural' genetics are in some ways overrated. i know that will seem like a shocking statement for many people. but let me explain: if flex hadnt used drugs he would probably never been more than 190lbs. (speculation).....flex without drugs is a skinny bitch with tiny joints (tiny joins is good for bodybuilding..so in that sense he has good genetics)

flex also had amazing drug genetics ...in other words he reacted like a mofo to the drugs he injected (also dont forget he was a very heavy user)

so yes, its very possible meso has naturally BETTER genetics in some ways than flex wheeler. but when you say genetics you have to explain what you include in genetics....would meso look as good as flex did ..if both used drugs? no one knows...probably not..as flex reacted incredibly well to aas...and dont forget that you have to include body structure into the word genetics.

there are many dimensions to genetics :

person A may be bigger than person B as a natural. but when both juice, B reacts alot better than A

person C may be very small naturally but has very tiny joins, great structure and full muscle bellies......but he is so tiny that person D who is naturally big but with only average structure will look alot better than C. but when C starts to juice, he will look incredible with all that aas induced muscle (which he wouldnt have been close to getting without the juice)....and now C blows away D

etc etc.

thelamefalsehood · « **Reply #589 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:42:29 PM »

Quote from: candidizzle on July 06, 2008, 05:37:33 PM

guys, this is a picture of my relative capriese

he is a lifetime natural and hardly trains

his diet consists of skittlez and cherry cola

i dont know whats so hard to beliueve about this guy beign natural

Why don't you just come out and say you think Meso juices and quit pussy footing around it bro?

candidizzle · « **Reply #590 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:45:41 PM »

Quote from: thelamefalsehood on July 06, 2008, 05:42:29 PM

Why don't you just come out and say you think Meso juices and quit pussy footing around it bro?

lol !

i already did that like page 2 didnt i ?

if i didnt

here =
meso takes steroids

at least thats what i think

no way a natural looks like that,

now, if he claimed to have a perfect diet be super dedictaed and to live and breathe bodybuilding since he was early teens??? AND if he didnt try to pull that bullshit "i dont even know what prohormones are"..then i might give him the benefit of the doubt

but a liar is a liar

slaveboy1980 · « **Reply #591 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:47:12 PM »

Quote from: candidizzle on July 06, 2008, 05:45:41 PM

lol !

i already did that like page 2 didnt i ?

if i didnt

here =
meso takes steroids

at least thats what i think

no way a natural looks like that,

now, if he claimed to have a perfect diet be super dedictaed and to live and breathe bodybuilding since he was early teens??? AND if he didnt try to pull that bullshit "i dont even know what prohormones are"..then i might give him the benefit of the doubt

but a liar is a liar

like you know anything about natural bodybuilding. juicing at 19.

SweetMuscles · « **Reply #592 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:48:09 PM »

Quote from: slaveboy1980 on July 06, 2008, 05:38:21 PM

speculation:

first of all, whats to say that meso cant have even better genetics than flex.

I have never ruled that out. In fact, for him to build that physique then he would have to when you consider that:

he only eats junk and what mom cooks
he looks better than confirmed naturals from pre-steroid era
he looks better than any natural competing - compare him to Layne Norton or Chris Faildo (chaos, there is no comparison, Faildo does not have the density and muscularity to compete with meso, just look at the arms. Faildo supplements like crazy - great friends with natural 'Skip la Cour'

- still can't get close. He is tiny)

But if he has better genetics at least we've moved from the 'he's average for a black guy' ' I know kids of 15 who are stronger and way bigger, that's nothing for a black man'

candidizzle · « **Reply #593 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:50:06 PM »

Quote from: slaveboy1980 on July 06, 2008, 05:47:12 PM

like you know anything about natural bodybuilding. juicing at 19.

i know.

arnold scharwzenneger didnt know shit about body building. lee priest doesnt know anything about bodybuilding. flex wheeler, shawn ray, dorian yates, markus rhul, dennis wolf, victor martinez..none of them know shit about bodybuilding.

no ifbb professional bodybuilder knows ANYTHIGN about bodybuilding.

fucking drug addicts who dont know shit

they dont know anything !

chaos · « **Reply #594 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:52:04 PM »

Quote from: SweetMuscles on July 06, 2008, 05:48:09 PM

I have never ruled that out. In fact, for him to build that physique then he would have to when you consider that:

he only eats junk and what mom cooks
he looks better than confirmed naturals from pre-steroid era
he looks better than any natural competing - compare him to Layne Norton or Chris Faildo (chaos, there is no comparison, Faildo does not have the density and muscularity to compete with meso, just look at the arms. Faildo supplements like crazy - great friends with natural 'Skip la Cour' - still can't get close. He is tiny)

But if he has better genetics at least we've moved from the 'he's average for a black guy' ' I know kids of 15 who are stronger and way bigger, that's nothing for a black man'

Regardless, unless you can get him admit he has used or is using something, it's a pointless debate. Nobody know the truth about what anyone is taking besides the person in question.

candidizzle · « **Reply #595 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:53:18 PM »

Quote from: chaos on July 06, 2008, 05:52:04 PM

Regardless, unless you can get him admit he has used or is using something, it's a pointless debate. Nobody know the truth about what anyone is taking besides the person in question.

i agree, thats why i post pictures of pro bodybuilders and say they are natural and dont train...

thelamefalsehood · « **Reply #596 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:55:01 PM »

Quote from: candidizzle on July 06, 2008, 05:45:41 PM

lol !

i already did that like page 2 didnt i ?

if i didnt

here =
meso takes steroids

at least thats what i think

no way a natural looks like that,

now, if he claimed to have a perfect diet be super dedictaed and to live and breathe bodybuilding since he was early teens??? AND if he didnt try to pull that bullshit "i dont even know what prohormones are"..then i might give him the benefit of the doubt

but a liar is a liar

I guess I missed that. You never know what you could be capable of naturally, you never gave yourself a chance so you will neevr know, not a knock on you, but just what I think. Everyone makes his claims seem so unreachable which is pure nonsense. He eats Jamaican food, which is extremely nutritious and contains all the elements anyone needs to grow. You don't have to live and die be a protein shake or carbohydrate timing to look good. I worked out for 10 years naturally before I ever touched the sauce, and could bench 375 at that time. Meso's got me by 30 pounds, which is totally believable. The guy is deicated, has better than average genetics and you can tell he genuinely loves working out which is the biggest key of all for any natural, to be consistent.

warrior_code · « **Reply #597 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:56:02 PM »

Meso, something tells me if you started training in the 100 meter sprint when you were around 10, you could have been a world class sprinter. Also for what it is worth, you are as strong as many of the discus throwers the world will be watching this summer in the Olympics. At least in a upper body sense.

slaveboy1980 · « **Reply #598 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:56:52 PM »

Quote from: SweetMuscles on July 06, 2008, 05:48:09 PM

I have never ruled that out. In fact, for him to build that physique then he would have to when you consider that:

he only eats junk and what mom cooks
he looks better than confirmed naturals from pre-steroid era
he looks better than any natural competing - compare him to Layne Norton or Chris Faildo (chaos, there is no comparison, Faildo does not have the density and muscularity to compete with meso, just look at the arms. Faildo supplements like crazy - great friends with natural 'Skip la Cour' ) - still can't get close. He is tiny.

im just saying that i often see that kind of argumentation (not just in this thread)....'if so and so did this and that he would have had to have better genetics than flex or cormier etc'. genetics is a tricky word, because its almost impossible to completely compare the genetics of two people and at the same time isolate it from other factors such as nutrition, how hard you work etc etc. it all becomes very murky. (and speculative)
and dont forget that different people include different factors into the word 'genetics' which makes discussions even more murky.

but in this case like i said before: i KNOW that mesos level of development is achievable for some naturals.

is mesos genetics better than 90% of the population? 93? 96? 99,9? doesnt sound like much difference but when you multiply that with millions..you will find that even if he has better genetics than 99% of the population 1% will still equal alot of people with comparable genetics.

chaos · « **Reply #599 on:** July 06, 2008, 05:57:21 PM »

Quote from: candidizzle on July 06, 2008, 05:53:18 PM

i agree, thats why i post pictures of pro bodybuilders and say they are natural and dont train...

That's why I posted that pic of Joel Stubbs back and said the same

It can't be proven and I suspect even if Meso passed a drug test SweetMuscles would throw out how easy it is to pass the drug test......Sweetmuscle has his mind made up and there is no changing it.