Author Topic: You know this "religion of peace" thing...  (Read 8222 times)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2008, 10:16:30 AM »
Politics of Spain takes place in a framework of a parliamentary representative democratic constitutional monarchy, whereby the Monarch is the Head of State and the President of the Government is the head of government in a multi-party system. Executive power is vested in the government. Central legislative power is vested in the two chambers of parliament. The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Spain

Spanish Socialist Workers' Party
The Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, commonly abbreviated by its Spanish initials, PSOE (Partido Socialista Obrero Español), is the ruling party in Spain and the second oldest, exceeded only by the Partido Carlista, founded in 1833. It is a Centre-left, social-democratic, Democratic socialist and progressivism party.[1]

It has had strong ties with the Unión General de Trabajadores, a Spanish trade union. For decades, UGT membership was a requirement for PSOE membership. During the 1980s, though, UGT criticised the economic policies of the PSOE, even calling for a general strike on December 14, 1988. [1].

Since the Spanish legislative election, 2004 on March 14, 2004 it is the party of government. It forms part of the Party of European Socialists and is a member of the Socialist International.[1].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers%27_Party


Hugo Chavez

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2008, 10:19:19 AM »

Hugo Chavez

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2008, 10:21:42 AM »
The party in power is socialist, but that all could change at the next election.  The people have what they want so I don't see what's wrong with the way Spain is running their country. Or I should say how their system of government works. 

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #78 on: July 25, 2008, 10:27:22 AM »
The party in power is socialist, but that all could change at the next election.  The people have what they want so I don't see what's wrong with the way Spain is running their country. Or I should say how their system of government works. 

What does this mean? The US is capitalist, that could all change if the people want communism... The same for any country, please don't try to soften the blow... SPAIN = SOCIALIST.

Spain is socialist... why are we even fucking debating it? Fuck me... ::)
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Hugo Chavez

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2008, 10:30:58 AM »
What does this mean? The US is capitalist, that could all change if the people want communism... The same for any country, please don't try to soften the blow... SPAIN = SOCIALIST.

Spain is socialist... why are we even fucking debating it? Fuck me... ::)
well no, it's not the same for every country, you could have a socialist country were losing power by vote is not an option.  I didn't debate anything, I just thought I would grab some shit off wiki for you guys.  The party in power is socialist, that could change next election.  No debate from me on this.

Decker

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #80 on: July 25, 2008, 10:34:48 AM »
1 second research:

"In October 1982, the Spanish Socialist Workers Party (PSOE), led by Felipe González Márquez, swept both the Congress of Deputies and Senate, winning an absolute majority. González and the PSOE ruled for the next 13 years. During that period, Spain joined NATO and the European Community. Spain also developed social laws, as well as programmes in Education, Health and Work."

That's wonderful.

And George Bush is a compassionate conservative who is also a uniter by reaching across the aisle to opponents.

That's as accurate as calling Spain a Socialist country.

Socialism is the workers owning the means of production.  I see private business flourishing and monopolizing Spain's putative socialist scheme.

"As of 2006 there were over 3 million small and medium-sized businesses in Spain, representing over 99% of all businesses in the country. In fact, most companies in Spain opt for Sole Trader or Sole Proprietor status (called Empresario Individual or Autónomo in Spanish) and 93% of Spanish businesses have less than 10 employees. The Spanish government (on the national level on down to the local level) provides various grants and incentives for the creation and expansion of small businesses in Spain as well as provides support and services to business owners."
http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/business_in_spain/

By gum those are some startling free enterprise numbers for a socialist country.

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #81 on: July 25, 2008, 10:37:15 AM »
well no, it's not the same for every country, you could have a socialist country were losing power by vote is not an option.  I didn't debate anything, I just thought I would grab some shit off wiki for you guys.  The party in power is socialist, that could change next election.  No debate from me on this.

If the party changed it would remain socialist. Like in Britain. If the conservatives get power, social aspects will not change. NHS, welfare, education.

Spain too has socialism enshrined into it's health care, welfare and education systems. A change of party wouldn't change Spain to non-socialist simply because of the fact it's tied to the EU (which in itself is socialist).

Many laws by the EU e.g. healthcare across the board (i.e. you're covered across the EU member states) have forced, and will continue to force even the least socialist countries to abide by socialistic virtues, if they want a peace of the open market pie.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #82 on: July 25, 2008, 10:39:05 AM »
That's wonderful.

And George Bush is a compassionate conservative who is also a uniter by reaching across the aisle to opponents.

That's as accurate as calling Spain a Socialist country.

Socialism is the workers owning the means of production.  I see private business flourishing and monopolizing Spain's putative socialist scheme.

"As of 2006 there were over 3 million small and medium-sized businesses in Spain, representing over 99% of all businesses in the country. In fact, most companies in Spain opt for Sole Trader or Sole Proprietor status (called Empresario Individual or Autónomo in Spanish) and 93% of Spanish businesses have less than 10 employees. The Spanish government (on the national level on down to the local level) provides various grants and incentives for the creation and expansion of small businesses in Spain as well as provides support and services to business owners."
http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/business_in_spain/

By gum those are some startling free enterprise numbers for a socialist country.

Wow, nice analogy! And bravo for somehow bringing Bush into the debate!

Spain is socialist, ruled by a socialist party. Serious, be man enough in defeat to admit you're wrong! ;D
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Decker

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #83 on: July 25, 2008, 10:41:54 AM »
Jeez, even Wikipedia doesn't call Spain a socialist country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_countries


Decker

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #84 on: July 25, 2008, 10:42:40 AM »
Wow, nice analogy! And bravo for somehow bringing Bush into the debate!

Spain is socialist, ruled by a socialist party. Serious, be man enough in defeat to admit you're wrong! ;D
Zero proof from you.

And the analogy works.

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #85 on: July 25, 2008, 10:45:17 AM »
Jeez, even Wikipedia doesn't call Spain a socialist country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_countries

The fact that Britain and Canada don't even get a mention destroys your argument.
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Decker

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #86 on: July 25, 2008, 10:54:26 AM »
The fact that Britain and Canada don't even get a mention destroys your argument.
We aren't talking about Britain and Canada.

But if we were, neither are socialist countries. 

Again you offer conclusions with no support.

I've given you facts and statistics that do not support your contention that Spain is a socialist country.

You've given me very little.

Canada is a parliamentary capitalistic democracy.  GB is a parliamentary capitalistic country as well.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2008, 11:01:21 AM »

Hugo Chavez

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2008, 11:07:00 AM »
Keep deleting my posts. Only furthering to prove my point, Hugo.  :D


I did my job in this case assclown.

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2008, 11:09:33 AM »
We aren't talking about Britain and Canada.

But if we were, neither are socialist countries. 

Again you offer conclusions with no support.

I've given you facts and statistics that do not support your contention that Spain is a socialist country.

You've given me very little.

Canada is a parliamentary capitalistic democracy.  GB is a parliamentary capitalistic country as well.

I live in GB, from everything I experience, daily, it's socialist.

Spain = Socialist.

I'm ofskis so I'll see how this turns out tomorrow :-*
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Decker

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2008, 11:18:00 AM »
I live in GB, from everything I experience, daily, it's socialist.

Spain = Socialist.

I'm ofskis so I'll see how this turns out tomorrow :-*
That's anecdotal evidence.

The vast majority of private enterprises in what you call a socialist country doom your point from the outset.  In socialism, the worker or citizen owns the means of production.  Examples would be if the gov. owned steel companies or any other businesses.  UHC could be considered a socialist endeavor if the insurers are not private companies but the gov. itself.

"As of 2006 there were over 3 million small and medium-sized businesses in Spain, representing over 99% of all businesses in the country."

That is not socialism, that is private capitalistic enterprise.

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #91 on: July 26, 2008, 03:01:42 AM »
We aren't talking about Britain and Canada.

But if we were, neither are socialist countries. 

Again you offer conclusions with no support.

I've given you facts and statistics that do not support your contention that Spain is a socialist country.

You've given me very little.

Canada is a parliamentary capitalistic democracy.  GB is a parliamentary capitalistic country as well.

That's anecdotal evidence.

The vast majority of private enterprises in what you call a socialist country doom your point from the outset.  In socialism, the worker or citizen owns the means of production.  Examples would be if the gov. owned steel companies or any other businesses.  UHC could be considered a socialist endeavor if the insurers are not private companies but the gov. itself.

"As of 2006 there were over 3 million small and medium-sized businesses in Spain, representing over 99% of all businesses in the country."

That is not socialism, that is private capitalistic enterprise.

Which modern country is 100% anything? For example, which country was ever truly 100% communist?

Yeah yeah, the common man in Britain will say the UK isn't socialist ::) not...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)

Political Ideology: Democratic socialism, Social democracy, Third Way

Well done guys, you're idiots.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Decker

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #92 on: July 26, 2008, 09:07:04 PM »
Which modern country is 100% anything? For example, which country was ever truly 100% communist?

Yeah yeah, the common man in Britain will say the UK isn't socialist ::) not...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)

Political Ideology: Democratic socialism, Social democracy, Third Way

Well done guys, you're idiots.
I've given a textbook definition of what 'socialism' is--the people owning the means of production--and I pointed out that Spain is 90+% private enterprise.

How can you argue that it's socialist when the stats show you to be dead wrong?

Why are you preoccupied with your titular 'proof'.  I always wanted to the use that word. 

That's not proof.

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #93 on: July 27, 2008, 02:27:27 AM »
I've given a textbook definition of what 'socialism' is--the people owning the means of production--and I pointed out that Spain is 90+% private enterprise.

How can you argue that it's socialist when the stats show you to be dead wrong?

Why are you preoccupied with your titular 'proof'.  I always wanted to the use that word. 

That's not proof.

Was Russia or China ever really communist?

The ruling parties in Britain and Spain are socialist. These countries have many socialistic attributes, other than capitalism. No country falls into any specific government style 100%.

You're just a know it all whiny bitch my friend :D
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2008, 04:18:12 AM »
Bumping this up.

Hugo, is the Labour Party of the UK socialist?
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2008, 04:22:30 AM »

JBGRAY

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2008, 04:58:31 AM »
Modern liberalism is at its very core nihilistic.  It is unsustainable.  All one has to do is look at the birthrates of the native peoples of Europe.  All, except for Albania, have below BRR(Birth Replacement Rates).  Japan is beginning to suffer from this also as their population is rapidly aging in greater numbers.  Crushing taxes, the more radical feminist movements, inflation, offshoring of jobs, soaring costs of anything child-related, unchecked and increased immigration from primarily Islamic nations, disintegration of the nuclear family, embracing and indoctrinating of alternative (and oft bizarre) lifestyles, discriminatory hiring and promotion practices against the native populations, abortion, appeasement of every whim of minority cultural and racial groups, and the gradual reduction and eliminating of Judeo-Christian values from every institution all help to contribute in some way or another to the European peoples and its' nations.

As the population ages, there aren't enough younger people to make up for the taxes and care needed for the elderly.  Thus, the imporation of massive amounts migrants from primarily Islamic nations begins.  Various European nations have called for the need for even more immigrants because their populations are aging so quickly.

Muslims have a very different attitude when it comes to social practices.....they believe in the traditional family structure.  They aggressively expand their religion and culture to other regions of the world, sometimes violently.  They are fiercely proud of their traditions and cultures, often holding their values to be superior to all others.  Europe seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum......ashamed of its history, nationalism all but non-existent, ultra-tolerance of even the most bizarre practices, well below BRR, and greatly reduced in power. 

And what will happen when Islam becomes the majority in Europe(and it will)?  Do you think the new regimes in power would tolerate much if anything of the self-destructive liberals?  These Europeans will become a persecuted minority in their own native lands.  The Enemy is not at the Gate.....it is already within the city with millions of good intentioned enablers to help them along the path of conquest.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2008, 05:13:04 AM »
Modern liberalism is at its very core nihilistic.  It is unsustainable.  All one has to do is look at the birthrates of the native peoples of Europe.  All, except for Albania, have below BRR(Birth Replacement Rates).  Japan is beginning to suffer from this also as their population is rapidly aging in greater numbers.  Crushing taxes, the more radical feminist movements, inflation, offshoring of jobs, soaring costs of anything child-related, unchecked and increased immigration from primarily Islamic nations, disintegration of the nuclear family, embracing and indoctrinating of alternative (and oft bizarre) lifestyles, discriminatory hiring and promotion practices against the native populations, abortion, appeasement of every whim of minority cultural and racial groups, and the gradual reduction and eliminating of Judeo-Christian values from every institution all help to contribute in some way or another to the European peoples and its' nations.

As the population ages, there aren't enough younger people to make up for the taxes and care needed for the elderly.  Thus, the imporation of massive amounts migrants from primarily Islamic nations begins.  Various European nations have called for the need for even more immigrants because their populations are aging so quickly.

Muslims have a very different attitude when it comes to social practices.....they believe in the traditional family structure.  They aggressively expand their religion and culture to other regions of the world, sometimes violently.  They are fiercely proud of their traditions and cultures, often holding their values to be superior to all others.  Europe seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum......ashamed of its history, nationalism all but non-existent, ultra-tolerance of even the most bizarre practices, well below BRR, and greatly reduced in power. 

And what will happen when Islam becomes the majority in Europe(and it will)?  Do you think the new regimes in power would tolerate much if anything of the self-destructive liberals?  These Europeans will become a persecuted minority in their own native lands.  The Enemy is not at the Gate.....it is already within the city with millions of good intentioned enablers to help them along the path of conquest.
well Capitalism itself is subject to some of the major ills you point out are facing liberals, are you anti-capitalist or do you have a special needs program in mind for those items in question to aid the corporations?

Nordic Superman

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2008, 05:20:03 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)

OK from your link:

Political Ideology: Democratic socialism, Social democracy, Third Way
Political Position: Centre-Left
International Affiliation: Socialist International
European Affiliation: Party of European Socialists
European Parliament Group: Party of European Socialists
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JBGRAY

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Re: You know this "religion of peace" thing...
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2008, 05:21:34 AM »
well Capitalism itself is subject to some of the major ills you point out are facing liberals, are you anti-capitalist or do you have a special needs program in mind for those items in question to aid the corporations?

I am not an anti-capitalist, but an advocate of regulated capitalism.  Government and private enterprise must be precisely balanced, but that balance is difficult if not possible to maintain.  Right-wingers routinely express the need for smaller government, and the Invisible Hand of the free market to guide its course.  There is no such thing as a pure free market.  Government is not the only entity that manipulates and controls various free market nuances.  Many private companies and individuals do so as well.  I would never want to live in the US where there wasn't an FDA, USDA, or SEC.

Globalism does greatly impede this.  The US can't exist within a globalist society until it gets knocked down a few pegs to equalize with the other nations of the world.  I'd like to see manufacturing stay here, jobs stay here, and put hefty tariffs on incoming foreign goods.  This won't happen since most of our modern politicians are globalists.