Natural or not

[flexingtonsteele]

I debated with myself whether to post this or not. I am not actually referring to anyone imparticular with this post although I'm sure that I am not going to make any new friends with this post. Personally I have no problems with someone using or even abusing steroids for the matter. To each his own as far as I'm concerned. The real problem that I do have is when someone who takes steroids claims to be natural. Now, I actually have no problem if Ronnie Coleman claims that he is natural. He was a cop so I can understand if he says that, but even Ronnie never went around making claims about getting to his size without drugs. He was a cop and he said he was clean and that was the end of it. I'm sure he never intended for anyone to believe him, but it needed to be said for obvious reason.

There are too many guys out there who believe just about anything that some of these guys say. It pisses me off when someone who obviously is on steroids goes around claiming that their kind of physique is attainable without drugs. When I was 18 I believed all the bullshit too. I spun my wheels for years believing that I could look like the pros without drugs. Don't get me wrong, a lot of people can look pretty damn good with training and strict dieting, but there is a limit! I am not saying that anyone should use. What I am saying is that no one should have smoke blown up their ass by being told that they can look at certain way without drugs. Can you imagine being told by your favorite bber who is on drugs, that he is drug free and if  you work hard like him  you could be big like him too? I had the same thing happen to me, but fortunately for me an old and wiser friend of mine went up to this guy and pretty much tore him an new one for lying to me. He did this on the side without my knowledge but later I found out. Talk about a let down. When you are young and impressionable you tend to hang on to every word that you are hearing from your idol.

There is a lot of debate about who is natural or not on the board now. Here is a general rule of thumb to get a very good idea as to whether or not someone is using any type of hormone either over the counter or not. Go into google and search for some pics of guys who were bodybuilders before steroids where invented and there you will find your answer. Now, someone of these guys were not as lean as todays guys, but some actually were. No where will you see anyone who is close to being as big as anyone of these guys today.

The only reason I am posting this is because I actually give a shit about some of you guys on here, OK very few.  I just hate to see guys have unrealistic expectations. Now, before anyone comes in here to dispute what I have said think about it first. I have been around a long time and I say as humbly as I can that I know my shit, at least enough to be able to comment on this stuff.

Very good post Jim, i myself have been delusional about whats natural or not. But after talking with you, its something that i cant lose sleep over, and ill use myself as the bar for what can be attained natural or not

[Ex Coelis]

I would argue that this is unnatural

[MP]

I would argue that this is unnatural

Holy crap. Hopefully they are both sterilized.

[affy]

great post man.  Im just curious.  Can you post a picture of a bodybuilder of today who you think is the absolute natural limit in terms of development.  Someone who you are 99.9% sure is natural. 

[knny187]

does natural mean "always" or "currently"?

[bodybuilder1234]

does natural mean "always" or "currently"?

wondering this myself

What if a guy gets on a cycle, quits then goes natural....is he considered natural?
Will his limit for muscle mass still remain despite previous steriod use?

[CalvinH]

I'm drug free but I do love teh booze

[Ex Coelis]

wondering this myself

What if a guy gets on a cycle, quits then goes natural....is he considered natural?
Will his limit for muscle mass still remain despite previous steriod use?

he can be 'clean' but he will never be 'natural'

[knny187]

he can be 'clean' but he will never be 'natural'

& my answer to that is....who cares?

people just need to do what makes them happy & only be concerned with what you feel or what makes you happy.

[Disgusted]

It would be almost impossible to define the term natural and the same to tell if someone is or ever has used. I have seen plenty of guy who look like crap and use. Now, it is much easier to be able to tell if someone is using.

[mazrim]

Speaking of comparisons. Are these stats for Sandow correct? Seem a bit far-fetched having nearly 19 in. arms with relatively low bodyfat judging by his pics.
Name: Eugene Sandow

Birth Name: Friedrich Wilhelm Mueller

Date of Birth: April 25th, 1867

Place of Birth: Konigsberg, capital of East Prussia.

Height: 5'9 1/4"

Weight: 202 lbs.

Neck: 18"

Chest: 48"

Biceps: 18 1/2"

Forearms: 16 1/2"

Wrists: 7 1/2"

Waist: 30"

Hips: 42"

Quads: 26"

Knee: 14"

Calves: 18"

Ankle: 8 1/2"

[chris2489]

Naturals

1926


Born May 7, 1879


1932 He stood 5 feet 5 inches and weighted 155 lbs. Chest 43", waist 31", upper arm 15 1/2". He could do deep knee bends with 300 lbs

[chris2489]

1908


Born in 1902


1920's

[chris2489]

1924


1902


Born in 1879

[bigdarksnake]

Hey Disgusted, who are you talking about? Could it be me? I take it as a compliment if it is. Thanks, Faildo

Bait n catch.........



self pwnage

[pellius]

If you are a regular user, train hard and follow a good diet and still don't look like much I think you are justified in lying. The humiliation is just too much.

When people say that Chris is small that may be so in regard to height and weight compared to other bodybuilders, or just the average fat American, but his muscular development is extraordinary. Truly dazzling in person. Wasn't Zane about the same proportion wise (assuming adding the 10lbs per inch of height rule)?

[JohnnyVegas]

i dont give a fuck if anyone is natural or not

however,

i think the supplement industry exploits the naivety of people when they start training

by selling a myth  - which is wrong

No shit, having Arnold holding up a Weider can of protien powder, or Gaspari holding up the "Mega Mass 3000", as if that could ever make you into a Gaspari-a guy who juiced year round.


Weider has been sued NUMEROUS times by the FDA for false advertising and fraud. Arnold actually had to testify at one of these lawsuits, back in the 70's......

[just_a_pilgrim]

It would be almost impossible to define the term natural and the same to tell if someone is or ever has used. I have seen plenty of guy who look like crap and use. Now, it is much easier to be able to tell if someone is using.

I don't have a problem. Using steroids is illegal. Why admit to doing something illegal when there is no gain to be had by it?

We can talk about Morals all day. If someone is young or dumb enough to believe that a person who is juiced is natural because they say their natural, then they also are dumb enough to believe that if they say they used drugs then all it takes is drugs.

[no one]

I was not reffering to you or anyone imparticular. I said that in my post, but maybe you didn't see that part.  It's in the first sentence. It's not alway all about Chris.      Unless you are feeling singled out for some odd reason.

Just wanted to add this: you are acutally pretty small and that is not a put down, so if you are using, it doesn't really show.

ouch!

pwned.

[Cleanest Natural]

I would argue that this is unnatural

Are these real humans ??

[Overload]

Great post Jim.

[HeyNow]

 Boy, I wish all I had to worry about was if dudes in supplement ads were natural when they really might be using juice.  Who the hell cares, it's called marketing.  Get a life, you people who actually put time thinking about this natural not natural are absolutely pathetic.  Bitter losers.  Lose the chip off your shoulders you might enjoy life when you quit worrying what everyone else is doing.  GET A LIFE

[Moosejay]

Speaking of comparisons. Are these stats for Sandow correct? Seem a bit far-fetched having nearly 19 in. arms with relatively low bodyfat judging by his pics.
Name: Eugene Sandow

Birth Name: Friedrich Wilhelm Mueller

Date of Birth: April 25th, 1867

Place of Birth: Konigsberg, capital of East Prussia.

Height: 5'9 1/4"

Weight: 202 lbs.

Neck: 18"

Chest: 48"

Biceps: 18 1/2"

Forearms: 16 1/2"

Wrists: 7 1/2"

Waist: 30"

Hips: 42"

Quads: 26"

Knee: 14"

Calves: 18"

Ankle: 8 1/2"

As an amateur Sandow officando, I will tell you that in his time everything was exaggerated.

He was, as you will know, fart of the famed 'Ziegfield Follies'.

[Moosejay]

Naturals

1926


Born May 7, 1879


1932 He stood 5 feet 5 inches and weighted 155 lbs. Chest 43", waist 31", upper arm 15 1/2". He could do deep knee bends with 300 lbs

All veryt credible #'s...name?

[musclehedz]

Hey Disgusted, who are you talking about? Could it be me? I take it as a compliment if it is. Thanks, Faildo

Stop making a fool out of yourself. We are not mentally challenged.