Author Topic: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??  (Read 5998 times)

DK II

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How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« on: August 05, 2008, 06:16:28 AM »
In germany it's rather tough, a little depending on the university you attend.
The Master Courses are 2 year courses.

In Japan, it's VERY hard to enter a university (entry tests 入学試験) but rather easy to graduate. Once you're in, it all goes pretty smooth.
A few years ago you wouldn't even need to write some thesis to get a doctors degree, just attend the courses. On the other hand a doctors degree is rather nothing in Japan as well.

Getting a Ph.D. in germany is very tough, you need 3-5 years of fulltime work for that, best if you work at an university for that.

How's your country?

Good educational system?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 06:40:34 AM »
In germany it's rather tough, a little depending on the university you attend.
The Master Courses are 2 year courses.

In Japan, it's VERY hard to enter a university (entry tests 入学試験) but rather easy to graduate. Once you're in, it all goes pretty smooth.
A few years ago you wouldn't even need to write some thesis to get a doctors degree, just attend the courses. On the other hand a doctors degree is rather nothing in Japan as well.

Getting a Ph.D. in germany is very tough, you need 3-5 years of fulltime work for that, best if you work at an university for that.

How's your country?

Good educational system?
I would say our system is two parts.  Suck ass for the primary education and as soon as you have to pay out the ass, it gets outstanding!  Go figure :D

DK II

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2008, 06:44:56 AM »
I would say our system is two parts.  Suck ass for the primary education and as soon as you have to pay out the ass, it gets outstanding!  Go figure :D

Sorry, but it would help if you name the country as well.

primary education in germany sucks big time. Kids almost learn nothing at school nowadays. It's a lot about how much the parents do with their kids at home or how much the kids are willing to learn by themselves. If you only rely on school, you are fit for a job at McDonald's (exaggeration)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2008, 06:59:12 AM »
Sorry, but it would help if you name the country as well.

primary education in germany sucks big time. Kids almost learn nothing at school nowadays. It's a lot about how much the parents do with their kids at home or how much the kids are willing to learn by themselves. If you only rely on school, you are fit for a job at McDonald's (exaggeration)
oops, sorry, I have it drilled into me that we're the center of the universe and all that matters ;D  USA

DK II

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2008, 07:03:20 AM »
oops, sorry, I have it drilled into me that we're the center of the universe and all that matters ;D  USA

Yes, actually i thought so, but wanted to make sure.  ;D ;D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2008, 07:05:16 AM »
Yes, actually i thought so, but wanted to make sure.  ;D ;D
That we're the center of the Universe?  Of Course!

JK ;D

Hereford

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2008, 08:50:23 AM »
In the US it also depends on what course of study you are going for. I found that getting into grad school in my field was a lot more political than I thought it would be. Once you get in though, you're golden, unless you are just a total dumbass.

Deicide

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 09:44:44 AM »
In germany it's rather tough, a little depending on the university you attend.
The Master Courses are 2 year courses.

In Japan, it's VERY hard to enter a university (entry tests 入学試験) but rather easy to graduate. Once you're in, it all goes pretty smooth.
A few years ago you wouldn't even need to write some thesis to get a doctors degree, just attend the courses. On the other hand a doctors degree is rather nothing in Japan as well.

Getting a Ph.D. in germany is very tough, you need 3-5 years of fulltime work for that, best if you work at an university for that.

How's your country?

Good educational system?

German uni sucks; American uni is strangely much better and anyone who knows me should be astounded I say this, but it IS true.
I hate the State.

BayGBM

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 09:53:33 AM »
In short, the cost of getting a Master’s degree is $$$.  The cost of getting a Ph.D. is time.

Increasingly, universities have come to rely on the Master’s level degree as a cash cow.  This has always been true for MBA or JD degrees but the idea of the Master’s level degree as a money making tool has caught on and spread to virtually every discipline.  Every Associate Dean across the country (USA) has realized that they can justify their position and raise money for the school by creating a Master’s degree program even when that degree has no obvious application or demand in the marketplace.  The result is one sees offerings for Master’s degrees in history, chemistry, sociology, American studies, Hispanic studies, or other ethnic studies.  Have you ever seen a job advertisement that required these (often newly created) master's degrees?  For all practical purposes such degrees are useless (unless one is applying for a job at a university which would be folly since higher education is, with few exceptions, already a saturated market).

This degree can take one or two years, but there is very little financial aid for the Master’s degree seeker.  I advise my undergraduate protégés to do a 5 year BA/MA degree if one is offered in their school/department.  This gets it over quickly and avoids the risk of taking a break between degrees (which often leads to trouble).  In addition, any financial aid you get as an undergraduate student can often be taken with you if you extend your course of study at the same school to include a 5 year BA/MA/MS option.

While scholarship and grant funding for a master’s level degree is scarce there is almost always funding for the person who wants to get a Ph.D.  But here, too, one needs to exercise caution.  In many fields the Ph.D. market is saturated.  Landing a job may not be foremost in your mind when you begin a Ph.D program but the realities of the employment market will hit you if you manage to finish the degree.  And this brings me to the real hurdle: half of all people who begin a doctoral degree never finish.  Most people who hear this statistic dismiss it and think to themselves “that won’t be me.”  They are often wrong.

Similarly, a Ph.D. program is often toxic to relationships.  Everyone who was married/with a partner when they began the doctorate in my department had broken up by the time they finished (if they finished).  This was often the case in other departments as well.


Every Spring friends (or friends with a college age child) will complain to me that s/he didn’t get into the college/degree program they applied to.  They want to know why?  Were they discriminated against?  Is it due to affirmative action, etc.?  Diversity is the name of the game when it comes to admissions but that word means a lot more than most people think it does.  Let’s say, for example, your child, John, lives in California and applies to Stanford University.  His high school friend, Jane, (who may or may not be a minority) was admitted to Stanford, but John didn’t get in.  Why?

In addition to race and gender, we also look for geographic diversity.  If we wanted to, we could fill the entire incoming class at Stanford with students from California—but we don’t want to do that.  We want students from every state in the union as well as students from abroad.  The truth is, once Jane was admitted, we may have met our California quota (for lack of a better term) and it is highly unlikely that we were going to admit any more students from California.  Jane submitted her application five days before John so she was reviewed first.  She got in and he was rejected or placed on the waiting list.

This same sort of things happens in graduate admissions.  It’s the luck of the draw and there is little you can do about it.  There are a few things you can do to boost your chances of admission but that is a subject for another day…


Hereford

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 11:27:22 AM »
In short, the cost of getting a Master’s degree is $$$.  The cost of getting a Ph.D. is time.

In addition to race and gender, we also look for geographic diversity.  If we wanted to, we could fill the entire incoming class at Stanford with students from California—but we don’t want to do that.  We want students from every state in the union as well as students from abroad.  The truth is, once Jane was admitted, we may have met our California quota (for lack of a better term) and it is highly unlikely that we were going to admit any more students from California.  Jane submitted her application five days before John so she was reviewed first.  She got in and he was rejected or placed on the waiting list.

This same sort of things happens in graduate admissions.  It’s the luck of the draw and there is little you can do about it.  There are a few things you can do to boost your chances of admission but that is a subject for another day…



Bay, 

The best thing you can do is to go in as an out-of-state student to whatever college you are trying to get in at. Most major colleges have a quiet policy of taking at least 30% of students from out of state. Why? Because out of staters pay something like 4X or more tuition for the same education.

When I applied for my MS program, I applied as out of state (even though I had been to the same university as in-state for undergrad). My buddy applied as in-state. I got in, he didn't. Even though we were very similar academically and background wise. I then reclaimed my in-state status, and all was good.

As far as tricks to gain admission go (for undergrad).... If you are trying to get into a college of field that is popular (thus, difficult to get into), apply to the school and declare a major in a similar program in the same college, then immediatly transfer over when you get in. It is waaaay easiser to transfer into a degree program than to get in from scratch.

DK II

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 11:37:39 AM »
German uni sucks; American uni is strangely much better and anyone who knows me should be astounded I say this, but it IS true.

I agree, german unis suck.

It's more about what you do BESIDES university courses than IN university courses. Well that goes for my political sciences studies, in japanese history the classes were much much better. Very few people as well.

Hereford

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 11:45:08 AM »
DK,

In Deutchland, Aren't kids sort of set in a career direction when they are quite young? I heard a while back that careers are determined as far back as when people are in the equilavent of high school...


Is this true?


DK II

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 12:00:23 PM »
DK,

In Deutchland, Aren't kids sort of set in a career direction when they are quite young? I heard a while back that careers are determined as far back as when people are in the equilavent of high school...


Is this true?



Well, even before that if you want.

After Grundschule (at 10 years of age, 12 in Berlin and Brandenburg) (Volksschule in Austria), there are four options for secondary schooling:

    * Hauptschule (the least academic, much like a modernized Volksschule [elementary school]) until grade 9.
    * Realschule (in Saxony Mittelschule [middle school]) until grade 10.
    * Gymnasium (Grammar School) until grade 12 or 13 (with Abitur as exit exam, qualifying for university).
    * Gesamtschule (comprehensive school) with all the options of the three "tracks" above.


So after 4 years of elementary schooling, kids are divided for the other schools. Almost illiterate idiots (and most foreigners from the middle east and russia) go to the Hauptschule and become professional unemployeds after school, living on welfare.

dumb kids go to the Realschule and become car mechanics and so on.

the others (still a lot of them very dumb) go to Grammar school and do their abitur. They become bank clerks, traders, merchants and so on.

The rest (quite a bit of them still rather dumb) go to university.




So basically what you become in later life is decided at 10 years old.

wavelength

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 12:11:30 PM »
In Austria, it strongly depends on the major. Some fields of study are pretty tough, some are fairly easy. Same goes for PhD. In some studies it's pretty much just writing the dissertation, in others it's a lot tougher.

Basic education is similar to Germany, although you can also choose to attend vocational school after 4 years of Gymnasium.

Hereford

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2008, 12:36:06 PM »
Well, even before that if you want.

After Grundschule (at 10 years of age, 12 in Berlin and Brandenburg) (Volksschule in Austria), there are four options for secondary schooling:

    * Hauptschule (the least academic, much like a modernized Volksschule [elementary school]) until grade 9.
    * Realschule (in Saxony Mittelschule [middle school]) until grade 10.
    * Gymnasium (Grammar School) until grade 12 or 13 (with Abitur as exit exam, qualifying for university).
    * Gesamtschule (comprehensive school) with all the options of the three "tracks" above.


So after 4 years of elementary schooling, kids are divided for the other schools. Almost illiterate idiots (and most foreigners from the middle east and russia) go to the Hauptschule and become professional unemployeds after school, living on welfare.

dumb kids go to the Realschule and become car mechanics and so on.

the others (still a lot of them very dumb) go to Grammar school and do their abitur. They become bank clerks, traders, merchants and so on.

The rest (quite a bit of them still rather dumb) go to university.




So basically what you become in later life is decided at 10 years old.

With a few tweaks, that might been a good idea for the US school system.

With this 'No child left behind" BS... Public schools are basically dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Through 'social promotion', and other politically correct foolishness, kids that are voluntary retards graduate HS at the same level (on paper) as the exceptionally intelligent.

If this system were in the US, 95% of traditional US minorities (meaning mexicans and blacks) would be going to the Hauptschule. This would raise the ire of the radical liberal left rabble, and the cries of 'racism' would abound.

Although I don't believe that at 10 years old you know what someone is capable of, at some point you have to play the numbers as long as an exceptional student can earn their way into a higher level of schooling.

DK II

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2008, 12:43:40 PM »
With a few tweaks, that might been a good idea for the US school system.

With this 'No child left behind" BS... Public schools are basically dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Through 'social promotion', and other politically correct foolishness, kids that are voluntary retards graduate HS at the same level (on paper) as the exceptionally intelligent.

If this system were in the US, 95% of traditional US minorities (meaning mexicans and blacks) would be going to the Hauptschule. This would raise the ire of the radical liberal left rabble, and the cries of 'racism' would abound.

Although I don't believe that at 10 years old you know what someone is capable of, at some point you have to play the numbers as long as an exceptional student can earn their way into a higher level of schooling.

Quote
Many Hauptschulen now have problems with drugs and violence, much more than Gymnasien or even Realschulen.

Hauptschule students have come to be increasingly stigmatized in German culture over the last years, the opinion of the general public often being that Hauptschulen only harbor the bottom end of society. The graduation certificate is the Hauptschulabschluss, which like the assignment to other types high schools is less valuable than the Realschulabschluss or university-bound Abitur. However in some regions such as North Rhine-Westphalia students which do well in Hauptschule receive the Realschulabschluss. Students holding a Realschulabschluss are allowed to participate in classes at the Gymnasium. They can get their Abitur there. Stereotypes of dysfunctional family backgrounds, absent and/or unemployed parents and domestic violence and alcohol abuse are often cited when describing what is believed to be the typical social origin of these students. Teachers often complain about ongoing difficulties in trying to properly educate them and parents refusing to take responsibility. Moreover, and based on these problems, it has become very hard for Hauptschule graduates to find qualified work or begin an apprenticeship, even in professions which traditionally welcomed them and have now shifted their focus to better qualified applicants, e.g. mechanics, construction or sales. In some areas, an overwhelming majority of each graduating class is therefore forced to accept low-paying unskilled labor or live on welfare indefinitely; many choose to stay in school for another year to obtain their Realschule diploma, which slightly, but not fundamentally, improves their career prospects.
[/size]

This is from the wiki article on Hauptschulen.

The problem with Hauptschulen really is that, once you are there, there are so many DUMB people that it nearly impossible to get out of it.

DK II

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2008, 12:48:18 PM »
Hauptschulen in germany (german)




Hereford

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2008, 01:02:16 PM »
Looks like just about any inner-city American public school.

ToxicAvenger

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2008, 04:50:59 PM »
In germany it's rather tough, a little depending on the university you attend.
The Master Courses are 2 year courses.

In Japan, it's VERY hard to enter a university (entry tests 入学試験) but rather easy to graduate. Once you're in, it all goes pretty smooth.
A few years ago you wouldn't even need to write some thesis to get a doctors degree, just attend the courses. On the other hand a doctors degree is rather nothing in Japan as well.

Getting a Ph.D. in germany is very tough, you need 3-5 years of fulltime work for that, best if you work at an university for that.

How's your country?

Good educational system?

in pakistan n india u can buy one for $5k :-\
carpe` vaginum!

240 is Back

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2008, 09:09:08 PM »
I got my MBA, best move I ever made.

it was a lot of hours and money, but not terribly mentally challenging.  I worked full time and played full time in a band while doing it, didn't study much, and still finished magna cum laude.

_bruce_

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2008, 12:36:16 PM »
Vienna/Austria:
University is too tough... at least for me... or better was.
Getting my cheapo bachelor and finito.
.

Hereford

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2008, 05:31:51 PM »
Public American universities amount to adult day care. If you get in, it's hard to really get kicked out, as long as you can pay.

DK II

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2008, 01:51:42 AM »
Public American universities amount to adult day care. If you get in, it's hard to really get kicked out, as long as you can pay.

lol, same in germany.

only difference is, we decided to let students pay just about 2 years ago.

now everyone's complaining about 1000 euro fees per year.  ::)

Deicide

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2008, 03:49:13 AM »
lol, same in germany.

only difference is, we decided to let students pay just about 2 years ago.

now everyone's complaining about 1000 euro fees per year.  ::)


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I hate the State.

DK II

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Re: How easy is it to get a M.A. or Ph.D. in your country??
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2008, 06:51:09 AM »

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Isn't it?

I once nearly got into a fight with one of these typical communist dumbass students who was protesting against study fees by telling him:

"Just smoke less weed and stop binch drinking on the weekends and you have 1000 euros easily every year".

he got totally mad on "how university destroys people's lives by taking fees" -- "Education, not for sale" was their motto.  ::)