In terms of sheer and utter stupidity, which religion (Islam, Christianity, Juda

[Dos Equis]

The first requirement for a religion is the worship of a deity or prophet. Please refer to a dictionary for the proper meaning of the word. Fundamental belief doesn't cut it.

As for the rest of what you've listed, is this what defines YOUR faith and religion?  The producing of television shows and magazines? If so, that's a lot of spirituality you got going for yourself Beach Bum.  That's what I meant when I said all you're doing is denigrating yourself.

What you've listed there could be describing any organized entity, as Ozmo kindly did for you, even the democratic or republican parties.  Would you call either of those a religion as well? I think some people simply find it easier to earmark all atheists into a single group as it makes it easier to fear and hate an entity... like islam, or satanism, or what have you, rather than a hodge podge of zillions of unidentifiable people.

 

Yes I know what the dictionary definition says, and if I wasn't sitting on the beach right now I'm sure I could find a definition of "religion" that doesn't include belief in a deity or prophet.  Sounds too narrow. 

I did not say the list defines my faith, but nice try. 

[Dos Equis]

I'm not going to waste my time trying to show that some group, like for example the NRA, shares these points.   What you outlined applies to many organizations BIG and small.  

Whether or not Atheists organizations are comical or not is simply a matter of opinion, the same matter of opinion that many share about religious myths.  I think it's silly that they would actually have an organization, but what ever, good for them.  

I don't care what they or anyone else believes.  If someone believes strongly enough in something, then good for them if they want to share their beliefs with like minded individuals.  But to call Atheism a religion is plain stupid.  It's the opposite of religion.

Dude I could care less if you think it's a stupid opinion.  I don't.  You think I'm going to change my view because you think it's stupid??  Also, a pretty smart guy posting in this thread agrees with me.   

You said the Mustang club, Elks, and book club fit all of the criteria I mentioned.  They don't. 

I don't expect you to list organizations that fit the criteria I mentioned, because I doubt many, if any, exist. 

[OneBigMan]

Without a doubt Islam is in a category all by itself because of the way people who believe in being muslim conduct themselves by wrongly name calling by using the word-infidel. It is difficult to respect people who are muslims in Islam for a number of other reasons including how they wrongly dislike Jews.

[Deedee]

Great post DeeDee. 

Especially the last sentence.  The whole "create something to fear and hate mentality" is a corner stone of doctrine driven religion.

Lol, well you were doing great.  I don't get why it irks some people that a tiny minority want to find a few others in a sea of Church going Christians to eat donuts and socialize on Sunday mornings.  I could think of better things to do... but oh well.  Those other organized groups just seem highly political in nature, although I checked out the convention menus and it seems worth going just for the food!

[OzmO]

Dude I could care less if you think it's a stupid opinion.  I don't.  You think I'm going to change my view because you think it's stupid??  Also, a pretty smart guy posting in this thread agrees with me.   

Since when was this thread about convincing you of anything?  Is that how you interpret other people's posts?  Are they all an attempt to convince you of something?

And because a someone who you think is pretty smart that agrees with you is supposed to make the idea that Atheism is a religion any less ridculous?  I think not.

You said the Mustang club, Elks, and book club fit all of the criteria I mentioned.  They don't.  

I also said there are millions of organizations in the world that fit all those points or fit some of them.  So because the a Mustang car club's website doesn't look like a lobby Atheism is a religion?    

I don't expect you to list organizations that fit the criteria I mentioned, because I doubt many, if any, exist.

Almost all do in part or in principle.  Lots of religions out there outside the church based ones.  All praise the the NRA.  Give thanks to the NRA's and give it al it's glory.......

[Deedee]

Yes I know what the dictionary definition says, and if I wasn't sitting on the beach right now I'm sure I could find a definition of "religion" that doesn't include belief in a deity or prophet.  Sounds too narrow. 

I did not say the list defines my faith, but nice try. 

But you've arbitrarily ascribed that list as your definition of faith for others.  Your pretzel logic isn't such a nice try.   

I already know the definition of religion, but please do inform yourself.

[OzmO]

Lol, well you were doing great.  I don't get why it irks some people that a tiny minority want to find a few others in a sea of Church going Christians to eat donuts and socialize on Sunday mornings.  I could think of better things to do... but oh well.  Those other organized groups just seem highly political in nature, although I checked out the convention menus and it seems worth going just for the food!

lol   hehehe.   Food is always a good attraction  

[OzmO]

But you've arbitrarily ascribed that list as your definition of faith for others.  Your pretzel logic isn't such a nice try.   

I already know the definition of religion, but please do inform yourself.

Yeah, let's just dismiss the standard definition religion and find one we like that supports our ridiculous notions.

[Dos Equis]

Since when was this thread about convincing you of anything?  Is that how you interpret other people's posts?  Are they all an attempt to convince you of something?

And because a someone who you think is pretty smart that agrees with you is supposed to make the idea that Atheism is a religion any less ridculous?  I think not.

I also said there are millions of organizations in the world that fit all those points or fit some of them.  So because the a Mustang car club's website doesn't look like a lobby Atheism is a religion?    

Almost all do in part or in principle.  Lots of religions out there outside the church based ones.  All praise the the NRA.  Give thanks to the NRA's and give it al it's glory.......

No, this thread is not about trying to convince me of anything.  You are the one who responded to my posts by calling my opinion stupid.  I honestly don't care if you agree with me or if you think my viewpoint is stupid.  Just so we're clear.    

Millions of groups fit all of the criteria I mentioned but you can't name a single one.  lol.  Yawn.  

The NRA doesn't qualify.  Now that's stupid. 

[Dos Equis]

But you've arbitrarily ascribed that list as your definition of faith for others.  Your pretzel logic isn't such a nice try.   

I already know the definition of religion, but please do inform yourself.

You need a new phrase.  "Pretzel logic" is a little old. 

Oh quit putting words in my mouth.   

I "inform" myself everyday.  I am learning today that the  State of Hawaii should regulate the wearing of speedos.  They ought to hand out licenses for those things.   

[OzmO]

No, this thread is not about trying to convince me of anything.  You are the one who responded to my posts by calling my opinion stupid.  I honestly don't care if you agree with me or if you think my viewpoint is stupid.  Just so we're clear.    

Millions of groups fit all of the criteria I mentioned but you can't name a single one.  lol.  Yawn.  

The NRA doesn't qualify.  Now that's stupid. 

I have.

NRA does.

So does a mustang car club in principle.

And why even take into account the definition of religion?   

Is it that Atheism's attack showing the flawed logic of Faith based religion so strong that the only way to marginalize it is to make atheism a religion also?

[OzmO]

Your criteria is also flawed.

Because there are religions that don't have TV shows or don't publish magazines.  So if they don't have TV shows then they are not a religion? 

[OzmO]

Just for the fun of it...........

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
re·li·gion      Audio Help   [ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.   a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.   a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.   the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.   the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.   the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.   something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.   religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.   Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9.   get religion, Informal.
a.   to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.   to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament) + -iōn- -ion; cf. rely]

—Related forms
re·li·gion·less, adjective
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
religion

To learn more about religion visit Britannica.com

© 2008 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
re·li·gion      Audio Help   (rĭ-lĭj'ən)  Pronunciation Key 
n. 
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


[Middle English religioun, from Old French religion, from Latin religiō, religiōn-, perhaps from religāre, to tie fast; see rely.]

(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
religion 
c.1200, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-Fr. religiun (11c.), from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods," in L.L. "monastic life" (5c.); according to Cicero, derived from relegare "go through again, read again," from re- "again" + legere "read" (see lecture). However, popular etymology among the later ancients (and many modern writers) connects it with religare "to bind fast" (see rely), via notion of "place an obligation on," or "bond between humans and gods." Another possible origin is religiens "careful," opposite of negligens. Meaning "particular system of faith" is recorded from c.1300.
"The equal toleration of all religions ... is the same thing as atheism." [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885]
Modern sense of "recognition of, obedience to, and worship of a higher, unseen power" is from 1535. Religious is first recorded c.1225. Transfered sense of "scrupulous, exact" is recorded from 1599.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This
religion

noun
1.    a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
2.    an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

[big L dawg]

this has turned into a wikapedia forum on what constitutes a organization.stick to the topic.who's religion has the most whacked out beliefs

[Dos Equis]

I have.

NRA does.

So does a mustang car club in principle.

And why even take into account the definition of religion?   

Is it that Atheism's attack showing the flawed logic of Faith based religion so strong that the only way to marginalize it is to make atheism a religion also?

The NRA and the "mustang car club" have mock churches that meet every week?  News to me.

I'm not trying to marginalize Atheism and haven't really thought or said anything about Atheism's "attack," so I don't know what you're talking about.  That is what we call a straw man.   

[Dos Equis]

Your criteria is also flawed.

Because there are religions that don't have TV shows or don't publish magazines.  So if they don't have TV shows then they are not a religion? 

No, I didn't say a religion has to have a TV show or publish magazines.  You can parse out any single thing I mentioned, but you're just taking what I said out of context. 

[big L dawg]

does everyone here have ADHD

[Dos Equis]

Just for the fun of it...........

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
re·li·gion      Audio Help   [ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.   a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.   a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.   the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.   the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.   the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.   something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.   religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.   Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9.   get religion, Informal.
a.   to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.   to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament) + -iōn- -ion; cf. rely]

—Related forms
re·li·gion·less, adjective
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
religion

To learn more about religion visit Britannica.com

© 2008 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
re·li·gion      Audio Help   (rĭ-lĭj'ən)  Pronunciation Key 
n. 
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


[Middle English religioun, from Old French religion, from Latin religiō, religiōn-, perhaps from religāre, to tie fast; see rely.]

(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
religion 
c.1200, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-Fr. religiun (11c.), from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods," in L.L. "monastic life" (5c.); according to Cicero, derived from relegare "go through again, read again," from re- "again" + legere "read" (see lecture). However, popular etymology among the later ancients (and many modern writers) connects it with religare "to bind fast" (see rely), via notion of "place an obligation on," or "bond between humans and gods." Another possible origin is religiens "careful," opposite of negligens. Meaning "particular system of faith" is recorded from c.1300.
"The equal toleration of all religions ... is the same thing as atheism." [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885]
Modern sense of "recognition of, obedience to, and worship of a higher, unseen power" is from 1535. Religious is first recorded c.1225. Transfered sense of "scrupulous, exact" is recorded from 1599.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This
religion

noun
1.    a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
2.    an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

Who are you, xxxLinda (three posts in a row)?  

Some of the definitions you posted include:

2.   a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.   the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
. . .
6.   something one believes in and follows devotedly

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Now, if you can't see how Atheism, based on all of things they are involved in that I have previously mentioned in this thread, falls into one of the preceding definitions, then I don't know what else to say.  

What these definitions show is the common use of the word "religion" refers to a belief in a supernatural power, but that it can mean any set of beliefs that "one believes in and follows devotedly."  

[Dos Equis]

does everyone here have ADHD

Guilty!  lol.  At least on this board.   

[Deedee]

Who are you, xxxLinda (three posts in a row)?   

Some of the definitions you posted include:

2.   a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.   the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
. . .
6.   something one believes in and follows devotedly

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Now, if you can't see how Atheism, based on all of things they are involved in that I have previously mentioned in this thread, falls into one of the preceding definitions, then I don't know what else to say. 

What these definitions show is the common use of the word "religion" refers to a belief in a supernatural power, but that it can mean any set of beliefs that "one believes in and follows devotedly." 

Sometimes, it's best to say nothing.

2.   a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.   the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

Both of these definitions point to "set of beliefs and practices" using examples that illustrate organized faith groups, i.e. Christian and Buddhist.

Atheists share no particular faith beliefs or practices among them.  There is no book of rules, no particular dress code, no prayer rituals, no houses of worship, traditions, holidays, etc... nothing that sets them apart as a group from others.  One atheist might be an ardent existentialist, another a humanist.  Some might feel some measure of spirituality with the earth, while others have no spirituality whatsoever.  Your examples of "some" people participating in politicized meetings, producing magazines or getting together for donuts doesn't measure up to the definition. Disbelief in something doesn't require faith in something else.

6.   something one believes in and follows devotedly

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

This is an example of the word religion utilized in the metaphorical sense.  "One" might view one's work as a religion.  Someone else might view Sunday golf, or weekly baseball game as "a religion" and never miss it. Someone might fight for human rights with a fervor approaching the religious.  Again, this doesn't apply to all atheists, all the time, as it's a reference applied in the personal sense.  The millions of atheists all over the world are not tied together by some enthusiastic embrace of any one activity or interest.  If this poetic, or metaphorical meaning is what you had in mind in calling atheism a religion, then that's a joke.

btw... I recently heard pretzel logic applied to Pelosi's views on offshore drilling... it may be old, but thought it applied in your roundabout application of what constitutes faith and religion.  I didn't put words into your mouth at all.

[OzmO]

Who are you, xxxLinda (three posts in a row)?  

Some of the definitions you posted include:

2.   a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.   the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
. . .
6.   something one believes in and follows devotedly

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Now, if you can't see how Atheism, based on all of things they are involved in that I have previously mentioned in this thread, falls into one of the preceding definitions, then I don't know what else to say.  

What these definitions show is the common use of the word "religion" refers to a belief in a supernatural power, but that it can mean any set of beliefs that "one believes in and follows devotedly."  

lol.    Isn't xxxLinda Retired?

And those parts of the definition of religion apply to thouands if not million of other things many other things........ just one example of each:

#2:  The medical profession.

#3:  The I.O.C.

#6:  Playing the violin


That's why there is more to the definition of religion than what you conveniently picked out.  Namely:  worship and God.  That's specifically why definitions need to be specific  

Otherwise everything  that's the color brown is feces for the same reason Atheism is a religion.

[Dos Equis]

Sometimes, it's best to say nothing.

Both of these definitions point to "set of beliefs and practices" using examples that illustrate organized faith groups, i.e. Christian and Buddhist.

Atheists share no particular faith beliefs or practices among them.  There is no book of rules, no particular dress code, no prayer rituals, no houses of worship, traditions, holidays, etc... nothing that sets them apart as a group from others.  One atheist might be an ardent existentialist, another a humanist.  Some might feel some measure of spirituality with the earth, while others have no spirituality whatsoever.  Your examples of "some" people participating in politicized meetings, producing magazines or getting together for donuts doesn't measure up to the definition. Disbelief in something doesn't require faith in something else.

This is an example of the word religion utilized in the metaphorical sense.  "One" might view one's work as a religion.  Someone else might view Sunday golf, or weekly baseball game as "a religion" and never miss it. Someone might fight for human rights with a fervor approaching the religious.  Again, this doesn't apply to all atheists, all the time, as it's a reference applied in the personal sense.  The millions of atheists all over the world are not tied together by some enthusiastic embrace of any one activity or interest.  If this poetic, or metaphorical meaning is what you had in mind in calling atheism a religion, then that's a joke.

btw... I recently heard pretzel logic applied to Pelosi's views on offshore drilling... it may be old, but thought it applied in your roundabout application of what constitutes faith and religion.  I didn't put words into your mouth at all.

It was probably better for you to say nothing. 

The facts simply don't agree with you.  If atheists were just people who didn't believe in God, rather than a group of people (at least some of them) who organized in the manner I've already shown, then you might have a point.  But in reality, some of them meet every week in what is essentially a mock church, form organizations, hold conventions, publish magazines, meet annually, if not more, to talk about . . . the fact they don't believe in a nonexistent being.  That's just laughable.

I watched part of their annual convention last year (?).  It was a complete joke.  About 90 percent or more of the portion I watched involved people mocking religion, God, etc.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I just find it ridiculous that people spend so much time talking about something they don't believe in. 

And yes you put words in my mouth.  You've done that throughout this thread. 

You've used "pretzel logic" on more than one occasion on the board.  Time to retire that one.     

[Dos Equis]

lol.    Isn't xxxLinda Retired?

And those parts of the definition of religion apply to thouands if not million of other things many other things........ just one example of each:

#2:  The medical profession.

#3:  The I.O.C.

#6:  Playing the violin


That's why there is more to the definition of religion than what you conveniently picked out.  Namely:  worship and God.  That's specifically why definitions need to be specific  

Otherwise everything  that's the color brown is feces for the same reason Atheism is a religion.

You forgot football.  Definitely a religion for me.   

I didn't "conveniently" pick out anything.  I highlighted the definitions you posted to show how it applies to what I've been saying. 

If religion was only about God, then I guess you think the definitions you posted are wrong?

Bad analogy.  I'm not going to touch that one.    

[OzmO]

You forgot football.  Definitely a religion for me.   

I didn't "conveniently" pick out anything.  I highlighted the definitions you posted to show how it applies to what I've been saying. 

If religion was only about God, then I guess you think the definitions you posted are wrong?

Bad analogy.  I'm not going to touch that one.    

When did i say religion was only about God?

I'm not saying what the definition of religion is.  The dictionaries are.  And Atheism doesn't fall into that definition.

But on a much important note yet mostly irrelevant to the regular season.  The Niner's did look good this weekend. 

[Dos Equis]

When did i say religion was only about God?

I'm not saying what the definition of religion is.  The dictionaries are.  And Atheism doesn't fall into that definition.

But on a much important note yet mostly irrelevant to the regular season.  The Niner's did look good this weekend. 

Right here:

That's why there is more to the definition of religion than what you conveniently picked out.  Namely:  worship and God.   That's specifically why definitions need to be specific 

The Niners looked good.  On the other hand, I can't believe Nolan went into camp with those three QBs.  He could have at least brought in Culpepper or Leftwich as a QB3.  He's starting J.T. O'Sullivan?     If we don't get solid QB play this year then Nolan needs to go, even though I like the other personnel decisions he has made.