Bob Chic will petition to SEPARATE the 202s from the Open Class

[The RedMeatKid]

Not a good idea at all.  This is the danger of having an also-ran like chik in charge.  He brings with him the emotional baggage of having had a metsa-metsa career.  Those of us that are sensitive to the nuances of the human psyche know that chik is seething with anger on the inside.  As such, he should be prohibited from calling any shots.

[Chick]

Bob Bonham claimed that the Olympia is the best of the best.  if they let people in who've never won a pro contest, it's hard to call it that.

the olympia use to be the best of the best.  only winners of other major contests were invited.   not sure when that changed. 

kind of hard to have a track or a pool that is 40 lanes wide

Levrone won the NOC prior to his Olympia debut.  Wheeler won the Arnold and the Ironman prior to his Olympia debut.

Many of these guys have won multiple shows in a given year, what a great lineup and show it would be if there were 5-6 guys competing for the Olympia, huh?

Don't need a pool 40 lanes wide, just athletes that have won a meet along the way, right?...not a chance every Olympian has won prior to geting to the Olympics...

[timfogarty]

I have not checked this, but probably [most] every IFBB pro contest has allowed competitors who had not at that point won an IFBB pro contest.

in the early days, it was not limited to winners of IFBB pro contests.  Winners of NABBA Pro Universe were invited.   Winners of top amateur contests were invited, especially class winners of the IFBB Universe (World Amateur Championships)

For example, Boyer Coe and Tony Emmott were invited to the Olympia the year after they won the NABBA Pro Universe (1975 and 1977).   Neither had entered any IFBB Pro contest in between.   Danny Padilla's first Olympia was the year after winning his class at the World Amatuers.  Same with Roy Callendar, Roger Walker, Samir Bannout.   

Winning an IFBB pro event wasn't a requirement to get into the Olympia, but pretty much every contestant had won a major international pro or amateur event.

[timfogarty]

Don't need a pool 40 lanes wide, just athletes that have won a meet along the way, right?...not a chance every Olympian has won prior to geting to the Olympics...

First you try compare my argument that only winners of contests should go to the Olympia to only winners of heats of races should go on to the next round.   but they only have heats when they can't have everyone on the track at the same time.   plus it's not just the top three that make it to the next round.  the rest of the field is filled out by time.   that way if you're randomly put into a heat with the three best in the world, you still might make it into the next round if you have the fourth best time of the day.

now you're arguing about just getting into the Olympics.  Teams are set by country, so you have to be the best in your country to be sent.  But there are still minimum qualifying times that you must meet.  you might be the best in your third world country, but you still have to be able to be competitive at the international level to be allowed into the Olympics.

[Joe Roark]

in the early days, it was not limited to winners of IFBB pro contests.  Winners of NABBA Pro Universe were invited.   Winners of top amateur contests were invited, especially class winners of the IFBB Universe (World Amateur Championships)

For example, Boyer Coe and Tony Emmott were invited to the Olympia the year after they won the NABBA Pro Universe (1975 and 1977).   Neither had entered any IFBB Pro contest in between.   Danny Padilla's first Olympia was the year after winning his class at the World Amatuers.  Same with Roy Callendar, Roger Walker, Samir Bannout.   

Winning an IFBB pro event wasn't a requirement to get into the Olympia, but pretty much every contestant had won a major international pro or amateur event.

Good points.  Weider, like Lurie often did, invited bodybuilders from other associations to compete in their respective shows. Sometimes, one suspects both Weider and Lurie were more hopeful than certain that those other competitors would jump aboard, and it seemed to me in those days that to say so-and-so 'has been invited' was mis-read by some as 'has agreed to compete'.

Certainly in the early years it was necessary to draw from all available sources for competitors.

[timfogarty]

Certainly in the early years it was necessary to draw from all available sources for competitors.

Bodybuilding today ain't as popular as it use to be.   Maybe it's time to do that again.

[Joe Roark]

Bodybuilding today ain't as popular as it use to be.   Maybe it's time to do that again.

As you know, Tim, selecting the judges (from which federation) would be the main hindrance to a modern motley contest. With the friction between (perhaps even among) various magazines, and the resultant positive publicity for the winner and his sponsor, it is unlikely we will see this idea materialize.

Actually, depending on what exactly you are referring to, an argument can be made that bodybuilding is now more popular than ever.

[Chick]

First you try compare my argument that only winners of contests should go to the Olympia to only winners of heats of races should go on to the next round.   but they only have heats when they can't have everyone on the track at the same time.   plus it's not just the top three that make it to the next round.  the rest of the field is filled out by time.   that way if you're randomly put into a heat with the three best in the world, you still might make it into the next round if you have the fourth best time of the day.

now you're arguing about just getting into the Olympics.  Teams are set by country, so you have to be the best in your country to be sent.  But there are still minimum qualifying times that you must meet.  you might be the best in your third world country, but you still have to be able to be competitive at the international level to be allowed into the Olympics.

Your analogy is falling apart fast, because it makes no sense.

"They have heats because they cant have everyone on the track at the same time"....fine...we have contests because we cant have 200 athletes on the stage at the same time....

"the rest of the field is filled out by the best times"....fine....and the rest of our field is filled out by th next highest placings

YOU'RE ACTUALLY MAKING MY CASE FOR ME...

Lets see...under your suggestion, so far we would have Phil, Dexter, Kai, Silvio, Toney...I guess Jay gets in even though he hasn't competed in 08. Kai is out....WOW, what an OLympia...5 guys to pick rom...guess we can all go home after an hour.

[timfogarty]

Lets see...under your suggestion, so far we would have Phil, Dexter, Kai, Silvio, Toney...I guess Jay gets in even though he hasn't competed in 08. Kai is out....WOW, what an OLympia...5 guys to pick rom...guess we can all go home after an hour.

fine.  have the winners from the previous 12 months, then a point system for the remaining spots.   Last year they could only bother ranking the top 15.   Why clutter the stage with people who won't even place?

[timfogarty]

Actually, depending on what exactly you are referring to, an argument can be made that bodybuilding is now more popular than ever.

tickets sold at shows like the Ironman, Colorado Pro, Keystone Pro, Tamp Bay, Houston, New York Pro.

compare the single seating for the NY Pro in a 1200 seat college auditorium to multiple seating (pre, women, finals) for the NOC at the 4000 seat Beacon Theatre.

[Lift Studios]

Why not refer back to Larry Pepe's well thought out proposal back in 2006?

All of these points were addressed and he broke down the weight classes, prize money, etc.

[Chick]

tickets sold at shows like the Ironman, Colorado Pro, Keystone Pro, Tamp Bay, Houston, New York Pro.

compare the single seating for the NY Pro in a 1200 seat college auditorium to multiple seating (pre, women, finals) for the NOC at the 4000 seat Beacon Theatre.

Yeah....dont forget to compare the comps as well. Full house doesn't mean more tickets were sold.

[dr.chimps]

Why clutter the stage with people who won't even place?

Excellent!

[Chick]

Excellent!

1992 Mr. Olympia Standings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Place Name 
1 Dorian Yates 
2 Kevin Levrone 
3 Lee Labrada 
4 Shawn Ray 
5 Mohammed Benaziza 
6 Vince Taylor 
7 Sonny Schmidt 
8 Porter Cottrell 
9 Ron Love 
10 Thierry Pastel 
11 Steve Brisbois 
12 Lou Ferrigno 
13 Alq' Gurley 
14 Henderson Thorne 
15 Francis Benfatto 
16 Samir Bannout 
16 Ronnie Coleman  
16 Miroslav Diskiewicz 
16 Jose Guzman 
16 Johani Herranen 
16 Patrick Nicholls 
16 Milos Sarcev 




Yeah...like THIS guy!

[dr.chimps]

1992 Mr. Olympia Standings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Place Name 
1 Dorian Yates 
2 Kevin Levrone 
3 Lee Labrada 
4 Shawn Ray 
5 Mohammed Benaziza 
6 Vince Taylor 
7 Sonny Schmidt 
8 Porter Cottrell 
9 Ron Love 
10 Thierry Pastel 
11 Steve Brisbois 
12 Lou Ferrigno 
13 Alq' Gurley 
14 Henderson Thorne 
15 Francis Benfatto 
16 Samir Bannout 
16 Ronnie Coleman  
16 Miroslav Diskiewicz 
16 Jose Guzman 
16 Johani Herranen 
16 Patrick Nicholls 
16 Milos Sarcev 

Yeah...like THIS guy!

Polemic! I think Tim means guys who will never, ever place, Chick.

/you know who they are!

[Chick]

Polemic! I think Tim means guys who will never, ever place, Chick.

/you know who they are!

LOL...trust me, no one had Coleman as a top champ, let alone going on to be the greatest of all time.

Just goes to show what can be achieved

[Zach Trowbridge]

LOL...trust me, no one had Coleman as a top champ, let alone going on to be the greatest of all time.

Just goes to show what can be achieved

Fair enough, but do you think he wouldn't have done what he did if he didn't compete in the 1996 Olympia?  I'm pretty sure he would have been fine.

[dr.chimps]

LOL...trust me, no one had Coleman as a top champ, let alone going on to be the greatest of all time.

Just goes to show what can be achieved

Ok. Fair cop. But, while lacking in initial size, Ronnie did have some good - real good shape - unlike, say (extreme example!) Ken Jones, who just looks lost up on stage.

[Chick]

Ok. Fair cop. But, while lacking in initial size, Ronnie did have some good - real good shape - unlike, say (extreme example!) Ken Jones, who just looks lost up on stage.

POint being...Ken Jones has never qualified for the OLympia. Guys earning the opportunity to compete in the O, by placing in the top 3 of qualifying shows, belong there just as much as the guy that won...who can be the other guy on a different day.

Tim's point/ idea...is lame.

[timfogarty]

1992 Mr. Olympia Standings

16 Samir Bannout 
16 Ronnie Coleman  
16 Miroslav Diskiewicz 
16 Jose Guzman 
16 Johani Herranen 
16 Patrick Nicholls 
16 Milos Sarcev 

Yeah...like THIS guy!

It seems to me that you're supporting my position.  If the Olympia is suppose to be the best of the best of that year, it really doesn't matter what you might do six years later.   obviously Ronnie wasn't ready to compete with the big boys yet.   in his only two pro contests up to that point he placed 11th at the Chicago Pro, and 14th at the NOC.   the only reason he was in the Olympia was because he won his class in the World Amateurs the year before.

[timfogarty]

Guys earning the opportunity to compete in the O, by placing in the top 3 of qualifying shows, belong there just as much as the guy that won.

OK, what about the top 5 as with the Ironman and the Arnold?   and if 5, why not the top 10?  Why not just make it an Open?

[Chick]

It seems to me that you're supporting my position.  If the Olympia is suppose to be the best of the best of that year, it really doesn't matter what you might do six years later.   obviously Ronnie wasn't ready to compete with the big boys yet.   in his only two pro contests up to that point he placed 11th at the Chicago Pro, and 14th at the NOC.   the only reason he was in the Olympia was because he won his class in the World Amateurs the year before.

POint is (which you wouldn't know, as you've never been on a stage , let alone the Olympia stage)....is that competing against the best in the OLympia is invaluable when it comes to experience...

That said...A athlete can lose to a guyat a given show, not because the other guy was better, but because the athlete was off, or ill, or mistimed his prep...

There is nothing wrong with the current system of qualifying.

[Chick]

OK, what about the top 5 as with the Ironman and the Arnold?   and if 5, why not the top 10?  Why not just make it an Open?

Why have playoffs in Football and baseball? You either win your division with the best regular season record, or you don't...right?

[timfogarty]

That said...A athlete can lose to a guyat a given show, not because the other guy was better, but because the athlete was off, or ill, or mistimed his prep...

or is on some judge's shit list

There is nothing wrong with the current system of qualifying.

having too many people who have yet to prove that they are among the best of the best dilutes the brand, slows down the contest.

giving out too many invites at the early contests such as the Ironman and the Arnold takes away from the excitement of the later contests.

wouldn't the Europa be more dramatic if more top tier athletes were fighting to qualify for the olympia? 

wouldn't it be exciting to have a point system for wildcard spots for those who don't win a contest that year?

And shouldn't everyone who steps on stage at the Olympia be ranked in the final results instead of having an 8 way tie for last?

[Chick]

or is on some judge's shit list

having too many people who have yet to prove that they are among the best of the best dilutes the brand, slows down the contest.

giving out too many invites at the early contests such as the Ironman and the Arnold takes away from the excitement of the later contests.

wouldn't the Europa be more dramatic if more top tier athletes were fighting to qualify for the olympia? 

wouldn't it be exciting to have a point system for wildcard spots for those who don't win a contest that year?

And shouldn't everyone who steps on stage at the Olympia be ranked in the final results instead of having an 8 way tie for last?

This is pro bodybuilding...it isn't as easy as just competing 6-7 times in a year...nor would it be healthy. In a perfect world, yes...the top guys would be competing over and over for big money every month....unfortunately, we have to deal in reality.

BTW....in your senario...how many guys do you think would prepare for competitions if the top 3 guys were competing in every one, and only the winner qualified?

Ridiculous