Sore Elbows

[gymrat01]

Everytime I train my triceps my right elbow start hurting so bad that it is very hard to continue the workout. You how it feels when you throw a football for a while then your elbow hurts, its like that but worse. Would anyone know what this might be?

[webcake]

Could be elbow tendonitis (tennis/golfers elbow).

Ive had it on and off too. I take glucosamine and if it is paticularly bad i have a special strap thing that goes on my forearm that helps it and will sometimes use a anti-inflamatory cream.

Perhaps avoid direct tricep work for a week or two, and then start again. And be careful when doing skull crushers. For me, they aways seem to aggrivate my elbow the most (hence the reason why i don't do them that much anymore).

Review the exercises and your form, take a break and see how it goes.

[gymrat01]

Thanks for the advice, im gonna get some glucosamine, and prob get a sleeve that goes around my elbow. skull crushers seem to be the worst also, i might have to find an exercise to take its place, maybe lying triceps extentions. thasnks again

[smaul]

avoid any exercises that seem to aggravate it specifically.  I don't have bad elbow but some days feel like skullcrushers hurt the elbows, then I stop.  

Do take glucosamine and if it is a tennis elbow get one of these tight braces that goes around the top of your forearm to relieve the pain a bit.  If it's chronic try taking an anti inflammatory like aspirin for a few days.  If it doesn't go away see a doctor!

edit: wow, you pretty much said everything I did while I was typing it!

[Montague]

Is the pain on the inner, outer or middle of the elbow?
Inner is golfer’s elbow – technical term is medial epicondylitis if you want to do a search.

I first noticed mine when doing skull-crushers. The pain started small and in only one elbow, but soon intensified and spread to both. Eventually, my elbows bothered me doing many other movements as well – particularly extension work.

I’m still dogged by my elbows today, but they’re MUCH better than they were a year ago.

To go with the good advice already offered here:
1.) Take a week or two off from training.
2.) Ice the affected area(s) twice a day.
3.) Oral OTC anti-inflammatories are good, but try to find a topical version like Ibunex.
4.) Neoprene sleeves are good, but as mentioned above, forearm bands are a little better at reducing the friction during exercise.
5.) When you start back, warm up thoroughly (especially the elbows) and avoid ALL movements that place DIRECT stress/pain on the elbows for a while. If and when you can do extension work, be smart and don’t go too heavy or deep in the bottom portion ROM.

Overhead extension work can be hard on elbows, but is important for fully developing that long head of the triceps. Larry Scott was a big proponent of kneeling cable triceps extensions, and when you’re ready you may consider giving them a shot
(see pics at bottom)

They allow for a good, deep stretch without stressing the elbows quite as much.

One final thing to remember is that tendon inflammation is often caused by repetition/overuse – not necessarily weight.
That’s why people can wipe out their elbows swinging a tennis racket. And how much does that weigh?

Even after you’re better, consider reducing the volume of extension work you do, particularly if you’re prone to developing tendinitis. And it sounds like you are.

[The Coach]

Ice, anti-inflammatories, and limit flexion (unless you don't want to continue training, then rest)

[Bluto]

if it just hurts on tricep movements and nothing else then maybe tricep movements are what cause it in the first place

[Vince B]

The elbows can be injured doing activities, sports, and training. If you throw things like javelins, baseballs and footballs then you can damage the elbows. Tennis and other sports stress the elbows, too.

Training can injure the elbows. Don't do heavy pullovers. Be careful with exercises where you lower the weight behind your neck. Lying supine triceps exercises are also dangerous if done in certain ways. Larry Scott used an easy curl bar and lowered the weight in a circular motion. From above to the tummy and then forward in a circle to the face and then up. That prevents elbow soreness to a large extent.

Triceps pressdowns usually don't injure the elbows. However, they also aren't very effective once you use heavy weights. Too many other muscles are recruited to finish the movement. There is not much resistance at the extended position which is where it is needed. Do this movement to warm up. A good strategy if you have tender elbows is to do about 40 reps for the first set then add a plate and do say 30 reps. When you get to 10-15 reps your elbows should be okay. Avoid sets with less than 10 reps for triceps.

Don't ever put your elbows on pads as demonstrated in the photos above. That will damage the sheath that goes over the elbows and you will have pain ever afterwards if you persist in this folly. Keep your elbows over the end of the pads. Don't place your elbows on surfaces such as beds, either! You will regret it.

The MedX triceps machine stresses the triceps in the extended position. The lying triceps extension is probably the best all round triceps exercise because you have your arms in a stretched position which benefits triceps training. Do lots of sets of 15 reps with your maximum resistance. At least 5 maximum sets after a thorough warmup.

[The Coach]

Oh yeah almost forgot..........NO ISOLATION MOVEMENTS.

[Vince B]

In January 09 I will have been bodybuilding for 50 years. It is still refreshing to hear the opinion of a true expert.

For some reason the triceps can be trained even if the elbows are sore. Even with isolation exercises! The requirement is that the resistance for the first few sets must be very light. I do something like 50 reps with 3 plates in the lying extension. Then I add a plate and do as many as I can. I finally reach whatever my target resistance is and do 5 or 6 sets. It might be okay to do even more maximum sets. I also superset biceps and triceps to get a pump. The pump could contribute to the diminished pain felt in the elbows. I have no idea why this happens. I was a javelin thrower in university and was always good at throwing things far. I damaged my triceps doing a pullover with a barbell with 250 pounds. I still have tenderness in my right elbow and have to really warm it up before getting stuck into the heavy resistances. There is no aggravation of the tenderness which is also surprising.

There are exercises to avoid but too many in gyms just do what others do and don't think for themselves. I see people wasting their time doing pressdowns with the rope. Amazing how the blind lead the blind. Even then they cheat. Then they wonder why their arms aren't growing. Doing the heavy dumbbell press behind the neck is not recommended by me.

[gymrat01]

All of this sounds like good advice that i will use. After all ive read, and I dont really want to take time off training. I am going to take glocosamine, but should I take the recommended dosage or should I take more than that? Vince basile, should I do 3-4 warm-up sets, are you saying that it would be best for me to do bi's/tri's together duiring a training day? Thanks for the of this excellent advice!! 

Thanks fellas!

[Vince B]

If your elbows are tender then do at least 5 warmup sets. Add resistance as you drop reps. Something like:

1 X 50 reps   1 plate
1 X 35 reps   2 plates
1 X 25 reps   3 plates
1 X 20 reps 3.5 plates
1 X 18 reps   4 plates
1 X 15 reps   5 plates
1 X 15 reps   5 plates etc.

I think the pump helps with the injury. So when you alternate biceps and triceps you get a better pump and aren't waiting around getting cold. I don't rest between biceps and triceps but maybe another minute before doing the next superset. When you get to your maximum resistance you can rest a bit longer if you want to maintain the target reps. Otherwise you will find you will not be able to do those reps set after set but drop a few reps after the second set. If your target reps are 10 and you don't rest enough you will find your last sets down to 6-8 reps. That is why I choose 15 reps for triceps. When you do only 5 or 6 reps you find the tenderness appearing more often. Your form will suffer, too. Avoid cheating if you want bigger triceps. I do a full range movement and have pads on the sides to prevent the elbows from sliding outwards. You can get a training partner to hold your arms in. Reach back as far as you can for each rep. You should get a big pump from doing it this way.

I don't take supplements and doubt they help much.

[Bluto]

whats wrong with pushdowns with a rope, say as a finisher or for pump?

[Vince B]

The rope should be tossed out of all gyms including mine. Bodybuilders keep believing nonsense. Either an exercise is effective in building muscle or it is not. There is no need to use an ineffective exercise to 'finish' a workout or get the pump. The pump should already be there from the maximum sets. Doing light exercises afterwards is a total waste of time and effort. The most effective exercise for triceps is demonstrated in the photos above. The pulley should be about 5 feet from the floor.

Hope this helps, but it won't change anyone's opinion.

[Montague]

Larry Scott also denounced that type of pushdown as essentially ineffective.
Scott once sold a kit that allowed you to convert a lat pulldown machine into a lying triceps extension setup using a chain extension and several other attachments (modern adjustable cable stations eliminate at least half of that required setup).

He recommended the cable be positioned about 5ft. high and using a bench about 12in. high. While he mentioned a normal flat bench could work in a pinch, he favored using a twin pedestal bench (which he also sells) that allows the head to duck down and rest comfortably between the arms.

Old training photos always show Larry resting his elbows directly on the pads, and this is a method I frequently use that consistently yields no pain during or afterward.



But everyone is different, and if this style does bother you, it would make sense to do as VB suggests and get those elbows forward of the pad.
Just looking at the photo Vince posted, it appears as if this method allows for an even deeper stretch, which may equate to better results IMO.

[BIG ACH]

Maybe wear an elbow brace or elbow tube, it will help keep the elbow warm and may not be as painful!

[Vince B]

Larry Scott influenced a lot of bodybuilders in the 60s and 70s. He is probably the most knowledgable bodybuilder when it comes to exercise choice and performance. Larry is an engineer and he is supreme as a technician of exercises. The lying triceps extensions can be performed as shown by Larry. However, as you get stronger and do the exercise more frequently you will soon come to grief if you keep your elbows on the pads. I did that for over 25 years with no problem. However, when I grew 1 inch in 1 month on my arms I injured them by rubbing them on the pads too hard and too often. Now I keep the elbows off all surfaces and the pain is controllable. Lots of warm up sets to pump the muscle and lubricate the elbows or whatever happens when you warm up and you will be fine. So be careful. Just because you haven't experienced pain doesn't mean you won't.

Compare training the hamstrings to triceps training. Would you keep your knees on a pad while you do leg curls? I think not. So don't place the elbows on pads when doing any exercise. Especially not biceps or triceps. Avoid damaging the sheath that goes over the elbow joint.

[gymrat01]

the exercise shown above looks like a good one for a deep stretch, but you say not to use the pad? I am traing tri today i will try it out.

[Vince B]

Do them this way.

[QuakerOats]

no need to fucck around with that uncomfortable bullshit, just do them with the bar on the flat bench and lower them behind your head, warm up slowly and take all the time you need for your elbows not to hurt, don't worry about the whole "short rest between sets" nonsense, what matters is the intensity you put into each set and for fuccks sake stop whining about every little pain, if you lift heavy you'll eventually have little aches and pains, everyone does.

[gymrat01]

good point douchebag, im just trying to find out some things that might help me out, so i don thave to take a lot of time off to heal up.

[QuakerOats]

good point douchebag, im just trying to find out some things that might help me out, so i don thave to take a lot of time off to heal up.

everyone has elbow aches and pains after training for a number of years, man the fucck up, stop whining and either train or be a little girl and stop training.

[thewickedtruth]

light hammer curls and pressdowns for very high reps along with elbow sleeves like those found at www.prowriststraps.com will definately help any elbow problem..


that and stop doing the exercises that irritate them to begin with.

[gymrat01]

I hate to quite doing those exercises that fuck up my elbows b/c they are my fav. I guess that i will just stop doing them for a while.

[Montague]

You sound like a very smart man, Cheftim.