Post pics of the furthest you can get being natural!

[BIG ACH]

My biceps shot:


Sandows:


And I'm leaner!

[BIG ACH]

You already said in another thread that you took pro-hormones or pro-steroids.

Yes I have taken pro-hormones before, if you want to point the finger and say I am not natural because of that, then thats fine, I can see your argument.  But every organization I've ever competed in have totally accepted the fact this is still natural!  Never failed a polygraph and never failed unrinalysis, so I still stand by the fact that I consider myself a natural bodybuilder, and so do the organizations that I've competed in.

[mwbbuilder]

Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?

Me:


Sandow:

Big Ach, practice a relaxed smile when posing. not the meatheat mostmuscular smile like everyone else.

Think "Shawn Ray" smile.

[BIG ACH]

And I also want to add, the pro-hormones that I took DID WORK!!!!!!


But you cannot compare them at all to real steroids, actual juicers can and will confirm this, its night and day!!!

But I won't lie and say that they didn't work!

[Deicide]

My biceps shot:


Sandows:


And I'm leaner!

Your nose has an awesome peak!

[BIG ACH]

Big Ach, practice a relaxed smile when posing. not the meatheat mostmuscular smile like everyone else.

Think "Shawn Ray" smile.

Yeah I agree, its tough in the carb most muscular though!!!! LOL  But  I normally do try to smile!

[BIG ACH]

Your nose has an awesome peak!

"Beautiful Arab Genetics"

[timfogarty]

Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?

natural is not the same as not juicing.  lots of chemicals you take that sandow didn't have help you build muscle, besides the prohormones.  also you're comparing pics of a 19 year old with pics of a 35-45 year old.

[Method101]

Timfogarty, I'm bigger and leaner than Sandow, Do you think I'm Juicing?

Me:

you got one hell of a grill

[BIG ACH]

natural is not the same as not juicing.  lots of chemicals you take that sandow didn't have help you build muscle, besides the prohormones.  also you're comparing pics of a 19 year old with pics of a 35-45 year old.

Timfogarty - this is what I meant when I said "advancements in supplements" in my prior post, we have a lot more that sandow definitely didn't have.  Even in quality of food we have better things, so it is possible for natural bodybuilders to get bigger without anabolic steroids!

Edit:  We also have a better understanding of proper nutrition which sandow didn't have, so how could you say he is the biggest a natural bodybuilder could get?

[BIG ACH]

I just re-read your post.   Our definition of natural is not the same I guess.

But using your definition there are hardly ANY natural bodybuilders left?  You don't take whey protein? or BCAA's? or Creatine?  So are you not natural?

Do you understand what I'm saying? 

When I say natural, and most people say natural, they mean not using anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, etc...

[njflex]

I just re-read your post.   Our definition of natural is not the same I guess.

But using your definition there are hardly ANY natural bodybuilders left?  You don't take whey protein? or BCAA's? or Creatine?  So are you not natural?

Do you understand what I'm saying? 

When I say natural, and most people say natural, they mean not using anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, etc...

good build dude.

[mazrim]

When I say natural, and most people say natural, they mean not using anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, etc...

Not "most". "Most" include pro-hormones in as well unless your a "natural" bodybuilder than it changes the meaning, lol.

[timfogarty]

Timfogarty - this is what I meant when I said "advancements in supplements" in my prior post, we have a lot more that sandow definitely didn't have.  Even in quality of food we have better things, so it is possible for natural bodybuilders to get bigger without anabolic steroids!

No anabolic steroids is not the definition of natural.    Many other chemicals on the IOC banned drug list, including massive doses of caffeine and ephedra.   if you use those to get an extra hard workout, you're not natural.    If you use herbal diuretics prior to a contest, you're not natural.

ignoring your previous prohormone use, it's easy to be on the natural bandwagon at 19.   but in 15 years you will find it hard to keep your gains, let alone make additional gains.  and it's not just because of drop in test levels.  it's because getting old sucks.  your body doesn't respond as quickly, and certainly doesn't recover as quickly.

[mwbbuilder]

I just re-read your post.   Our definition of natural is not the same I guess.

But using your definition there are hardly ANY natural bodybuilders left?  You don't take whey protein? or BCAA's? or Creatine?  So are you not natural?

Do you understand what I'm saying? 

When I say natural, and most people say natural, they mean not using anabolic steroids, GH, insulin, etc...

I believe the vast majority of the manstrem public's definition:

natural = NOT a criminal securing illegals drugs and putting them in their body to be big and/or ripped

nuff said

[njflex]

No anabolic steroids is not the definition of natural.    Many other chemicals on the IOC banned drug list, including massive doses of caffeine and ephedra.   if you use those to get an extra hard workout, you're not natural.    If you use herbal diuretics prior to a contest, you're not natural.

ignoring your previous prohormone use, it's easy to be on the natural bandwagon at 19.   but in 15 years you will find it hard to keep your gains, let alone make additional gains.  and it's not just because of drop in test levels.  it's because getting old sucks.  your body doesn't respond as quickly, and certainly doesn't recover as quickly.

agreed,but u have to make adjustments to accomadate changes.do u supplement tim?naturally or artificial.

[bigbalddaddy]

Does synthol count?

[BIG ACH]

Njflex:  Thanks dude!!!!  Appreciated

Mazrim:  I'd have a pretty weak argument against you, I don't think you are totally crazy for saying what you say.  But again, all natural organizations I compete in accept my natural status regardless of the use of pro-hormones in the past, so I still consider myself natural.

Timfogarty:  First of all, I don't understand why you think I'm 19 years old, I'm 25 right now, and the bicep pic was at 21 and the crab was just last month.  I know not far from 19 but I just wanted to clarify that.

I can't speak on how I will be in 15 years, I am going only by other natural bodybuilders who I have met older than me, they just seem to get better with age, at 30, 40,  and even one of the best Natural bodybuilders I know is 57 or so, Neal Grossman - look him up, he beats people in their 20's.

Also, I've used Ephedra in the past before it was banned, and use caffeine till today, so I guess I'm the farthest thing from being natural LOL

My natural definition is the one given to me by the natural oganizations I've competed in (IE:  OCB and NGA).

[mwbbuilder]

No anabolic steroids is not the definition of natural.    Many other chemicals on the IOC banned drug list, including massive doses of caffeine and ephedra.   if you use those to get an extra hard workout, you're not natural.    If you use herbal diuretics prior to a contest, you're not natural.

ignoring your previous prohormone use, it's easy to be on the natural bandwagon at 19.   but in 15 years you will find it hard to keep your gains, let alone make additional gains.  and it's not just because of drop in test levels.  it's because getting old sucks.  your body doesn't respond as quickly, and certainly doesn't recover as quickly.

How old are you?

[The True Adonis]

Natural is anything under 200 lbs ripped and under 6ft tall.


It is an impossibility for anyone to be over 200 lbs and under 6 ft at low, low bodyfat.


Even 190 lbs is a stretch if not an impossibility when under 6 ft.

[The True Adonis]

Njflex:  Thanks dude!!!!  Appreciated

Mazrim:  I'd have a pretty weak argument against you, I don't think you are totally crazy for saying what you say.  But again, all natural organizations I compete in accept my natural status regardless of the use of pro-hormones in the past, so I still consider myself natural.

Timfogarty:  First of all, I don't understand why you think I'm 19 years old, I'm 25 right now, and the bicep pic was at 21 and the crab was just last month.  I know not far from 19 but I just wanted to clarify that.

I can't speak on how I will be in 15 years, I am going only by other natural bodybuilders who I have met older than me, they just seem to get better with age, at 30, 40,  and even one of the best Natural bodybuilders I know is 57 or so, Neal Grossman - look him up, he beats people in their 20's.

Also, I've used Ephedra in the past before it was banned, and use caffeine till today, so I guess I'm the farthest thing from being natural LOL

My natural definition is the one given to me by the natural oganizations I've competed in (IE:  OCB and NGA).

Haven`t a handful of OCB`ers failed drug or polygraph tests?

[BIG ACH]

I believe the vast majority of the manstrem public's definition:

natural = NOT a criminal securing illegals drugs and putting them in their body to be big and/or ripped

nuff said

mwbbuilder, even that definition is not enough.  Because in many other countries Steroids are not illegal like they are in the USA.

I'm from Egypt, Steroids are perfectly legal here, and IN FACT they are cheaper than whey protein, you can buy steroids in any pharmacy here in Egypt, no prescription needed!

In the UK as well if you are not distributing, steroids are perfectly legal!

[BIG ACH]

Haven`t quite a number of OCB`ers failed drug or polygraph tests?

Adam, I am sure it has happened, thats because many organizations have different rules.

For example, OCB allowed/allows the use of over the counter pro-hormones, the WNBF does not - thats just one example there are a million other examples.  So yes it does happen!

[mwbbuilder]

good point.

I guess what I said...AND living in the U.S. because that includes the ban of those steroids and others for "bodybuilding" purposes.

[Earl1972]

He is my friend and yes he is.
He has had a few operations on his heart so roids would probably kill him. =)

where are the scars on his chest?

E