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Author Topic: Judging Joel Stubbs!  (Read 8532 times)
Milos_Sarcev
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« on: August 24, 2008, 02:19:52 AM »

I would really like to get EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION in effort to give credit where credit is due - to my dear friend (and former athlete who is now training /with great success/ with Charles Glass) - Mr. Joel Stubbs - classy gentleman and THE nicest person you'll ever met who just happen to have in my opinion one of the best physiques in the world.

I know Joel since 2005 and I am painfully watching injustice he is getting time after time again at the IFBB pro shows he is entering around the world.

He NEVER places at the top...and more often than not - in my opinion - he is definitely deserving the place among the top 5 finishers [and if I was a judge he would have won several titles already...] - but he NEVER gets favorable callouts and therefore appropriate placing.

In 2006 I urged him to go to European tour as he would had a chance to stand right next to Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler - and show the world HOW GOOD he really is (standing next to Jay and Ronnie and BEATING TWO of the very best bodybuilders pose by pose is what I was really after...but it never happened - as he had some VISA issues and never made it to Europe...)

Well, fast foreword to 2008...I am still watching (with even more pain - as I truly admire and LOVE the man...Yes, I am saying proudly as Joel is such an exceptional human being that I don't mind publicly stating what I just did - as he certainly deserves it...being possibly the very best person on this Planet...) Joel getting NO love from the IFBB judges...

I spoke with few about Joel and I always get the same answer: NO LEGS...and I told them - why don't you measure his legs and I bet you he'll have the biggest circumference measurement in the whole lineup...

I asked NO LEGS?
 And than I pointed out:
HAMSTRINGS - exceptionally well developed and in balance with the rest of his body - which is EXCEPTIONAL...

Three major muscles of the hamstrings:
SEMIMEBRANOSUS
SEMITENDINOSUS
BICEPS FEMORIS - all 3 very well developed and clearly separated - highly recognizable in rear poses...
GRACILIS also visible in rear poses - is yet another well developed muscle Joel posses.

Besides Hamstrings - in side poses TFL (Tensor Fasciae Latae) muscle of Joel is world class...making his legs from SIDE and REAR VIEW - exceptionally well developed.

Truth is - his legs are still somewhat lacking behind the UPPER BODY...But, here is the trick:
Flex magazine (FLEXONLINE reporters from previous Europa shows) went as far as making statement that Joel Stubbs has THE BEST UPPER BODY OF ALL TIMES!!!!
Imagine the magnitude of that statement!?

The best upper body world have ever witnessed...including Arnold, Sergio, Milos Grin, Haney, Colleman, Zane, Yates, Wheeler, Sarcev...well all the IFBB LEGENDS (suspended  ::)or not)...

So even if his legs ARE well developed - it is possible that his upper body (being the BEST EVER) will still overpower his well developed legs...so is this imbalance punishable (which seems to be the case) or should it be reworded Huh

I pointed out to one of the IFBB judges exactly this - and he said - "Well Milos - you said it - his balance is OFF...so that is why we penalize him..."

But, I had to add...than - how come some competitors with exceptional bodyparts - like Lee Haney, Dorian Yates...etc - get awarded for exceptional bodypart that is NOT balanced with the rest of their physiques? Joel's whole upper body is OUT OF THIS WORLD so why would he be penalized when others are reworded?

Hmmm, judge would whisper...you got the point...

WELL - DON'T I? Grin

So - let me continue:


CALVES and LOWER LEG MUSCLES - pretty good and especially considering that genetically he should have problem developing CALF muscles - he had ABOVE THE AVERAGE calves - beating many top Olympia competitors in that department...
Looking at last years top 6 - I would say that he beats Dexter (3), Ronnie (4), Dennis Wolf (5) and Melvin (6) in that department...and many more Olympians as well...

GASTROCNEMIUS
SOLEUS
PERONEALS
TIBIALIS ANTERIOR/POSTERIOR

All of these muscle groups are well developed and as I already mentioned - better than majority of the TOP 6 mr. Olympia finishers - SO KEEP THIS IN MIND!!!

GLUTEUS MINIMUS/MEDIUS/MAXIMUS - also...Well developed and defined...

ADDUCTOR COMPLEX (all 3 muscles: Adductor Longus, Brevis and Magnus)  - very well developed indeed and so is SARTORIUS (longest inner-thigh muscle)...



So - only ONE GROUP OF MUSCLES possibly in question: QUADRICEPS!!!

Look at many photos of Joels quads...

It is easy to notice that he has GREAT SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, and fully developed all 4 heads ("ceps") of QUADRI(4)-CEPS muscles...Vastus medialis (tear drop), Vastus lateralis (sweep), Vastus Intermedius/Rectus Femoris

Joel's problem is double surgery he had on both of his knees - souvenir from his basketball days...(by the way - his brother is basketball player and I had pleasure meeting him in Texas last weekend. Please - go ahead and shake hands with his brother...If you don't get the chills down your spine - I would be surprised...He doesn't have a hand...he has a giant baseball glove instead...)...

So, INJURY caused some muscle atrophy or loss...and somehow - in HIS CASE judges are penalizing him for it while OTHERS got a break...
Who?
Dorian Yates and his torn (and almost non existent) biceps...Chris d-i-c-kerson winning the Mr. Olympia 1982 with torn chest + biceps...Levrone, Tony Freeman with torn chest...etc...etc

So WHY is it OK for some but not for others?

Now THAT IS THE QUESTION NOW (rather than TO BE or NOT TO BE...of some...I don't know...well - nobody...What kind of stupid question is that? To be or not to be? To bodybuild or not to bodybuild makes much more sense...Well, if you don't compete...in the IFBB especially...[suspended cannot be suspended again...like double jeopardy... Grin Grin Grin]

OK, I am joking here - when I am talking about very serious issue.

Joel Stubbs is consummate professional who is putting a lot of effort into his profession enduring numerous sacrifices along the way...

He knows that competing at the highest level means possibility of the highest awards and therefore all the sacrifices are somewhat easier to cope with - believing that one of these days he will get his DUE justice and maybe MAKE SOME MONEY before he turns 100 years old...when winning Olympia and getting few million $ just wouldn't matter - like it would if he gets it TODAY (or the way I see it by 2009...)

Please, please, please - for the love of God - can more of you speak up and force judges to recognize and realize that Joel Stubbs should be getting comparisons with the very best...and I certainly hope that he would get his chance to possibly qualify for the Mr. Olympia in the next contest (Atlantic City...)...just weeks away...

Here is Joel at the Europa Supershow 2008


* 0.jpg (264.83 KB, 639x839 - viewed 2449 times.)

* 1.jpg (241.48 KB, 640x790 - viewed 2929 times.)

* 2.jpg (260.57 KB, 640x809 - viewed 2573 times.)
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2008, 02:22:35 AM »

Meltdown?
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from incomplete data
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2008, 02:24:54 AM »

Huge beyond belief. Shocked

Tell him to step up the g4p and he should start placing better. Lips sealed Lips sealed
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 02:25:51 AM »

.


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* 7.jpg (218.14 KB, 574x839 - viewed 2368 times.)

* 6.jpg (216.13 KB, 552x839 - viewed 2345 times.)
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2008, 02:41:03 AM »

more pics of Joel Stubbs(placed 14th among 40 competitors at 2008 Europa)


* DSC_1511_XLVEEGPCAH.jpg (74.25 KB, 602x900 - viewed 3102 times.)

* _W5Q5226_PNOCQJQLMR.jpg (85.17 KB, 600x900 - viewed 2262 times.)

* DSC_1500_QXOUFOYWUT.jpg (73.88 KB, 602x900 - viewed 2545 times.)
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2008, 02:54:38 AM »

i dont think his proportion allow the judges to place him higher

he is extremly wide, but has not the density of the "real greatest upper bodys in history" (this statement probably made by FLEX magazine is wrong, even his back is not as good as considered often)

and his legs are weak

i know, it s not easy to bild full quads beeing that tall, but his package is uncomplete an will remain uncomplete for ever
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2008, 03:16:31 AM »

more pics of Joel Stubbs(placed 14th among 40 competitors at 2008 Europa)


Soooooooft.
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2008, 03:39:52 AM »

I agree with you Milos.
Stubbs is very impressive.
Yates had  the worst arms on any Olympia competitor
in history, and still Dorian won with perfect scores.

"Pro" BB shows is not about who have the best body.
Other things come into play first.
How you look is #4 on the list.
Ask Cutler, he laugh at those who believe in hard training and fair judging.

Stubbs legs have a huge gap between Vastus Medialis, Lateralis,
Rectus femoris and the patella.
Giving the illusion his Rectus Femoris insert too high.
If he could fill that area with something, silicone or whatever the surgeon
will chose.
Cover that area on the photo with a pen and see that it looks much better.
I wish him good luck and hope he stay injury free.
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2008, 04:06:44 AM »

Joel Stubbs - real man. But ... He is very modest. A Hercules - is also "no legs." But Hercules - this is Hercules. The judges think the image of bodybuilding. Patience ... Joel
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2008, 04:10:10 AM »


big guy

weak quads, and the forearms of  a member of the croquet team
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2008, 04:31:18 AM »

The weaknesses are so blurring its not even funny Milos

Non existant FOREARMS, totally throws him off

His quads are unfortunetly too small, again balance is off

Conditioning is no way good enough, he is soft compared to the top guys.
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2008, 04:33:06 AM »

huge guy shoulder back chest...
...
arms dwarved by shoulders...
and his legs are too small for his upper body
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2008, 04:43:16 AM »

i dont think his proportion allow the judges to place him higher

he is extremly wide, but has not the density of the "real greatest upper bodys in history" (this statement probably made by FLEX magazine is wrong, even his back is not as good as considered often)

and his legs are weak

i know, it s not easy to bild full quads beeing that tall, but his package is uncomplete an will remain uncomplete for ever

by that rational, he would have placed better if he  looked worse?Huh   dude is phenonimal, he is one of the best ever!!!
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2008, 04:47:57 AM »

Mr.Olympia upper body with the low level amateur legs.
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2008, 05:28:58 AM »

I would really like to get EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION in effort to give credit where credit is due - to my dear friend (and former athlete who is now training /with great success/ with Charles Glass) - Mr. Joel Stubbs - classy gentleman and THE nicest person you'll ever met who just happen to have in my opinion one of the best physiques in the world.

I know Joel since 2005 and I am painfully watching injustice he is getting time after time again at the IFBB pro shows he is entering around the world.

He NEVER places at the top...and more often than not - in my opinion - he is definitely deserving the place among the top 5 finishers [and if I was a judge he would have won several titles already...] - but he NEVER gets favorable callouts and therefore appropriate placing.

In 2006 I urged him to go to European tour as he would had a chance to stand right next to Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler - and show the world HOW GOOD he really is (standing next to Jay and Ronnie and BEATING TWO of the very best bodybuilders pose by pose is what I was really after...but it never happened - as he had some VISA issues and never made it to Europe...)

Well, fast foreword to 2008...I am still watching (with even more pain - as I truly admire and LOVE the man...Yes, I am saying proudly as Joel is such an exceptional human being that I don't mind publicly stating what I just did - as he certainly deserves it...being possibly the very best person on this Planet...) Joel getting NO love from the IFBB judges...

I spoke with few about Joel and I always get the same answer: NO LEGS...and I told them - why don't you measure his legs and I bet you he'll have the biggest circumference measurement in the whole lineup...

I asked NO LEGS?
 And than I pointed out:
HAMSTRINGS - exceptionally well developed and in balance with the rest of his body - which is EXCEPTIONAL...

Three major muscles of the hamstrings:
SEMIMEBRANOSUS
SEMITENDINOSUS
BICEPS FEMORIS - all 3 very well developed and clearly separated - highly recognizable in rear poses...
GRACILIS also visible in rear poses - is yet another well developed muscle Joel posses.

Besides Hamstrings - in side poses TFL (Tensor Fasciae Latae) muscle of Joel is world class...making his legs from SIDE and REAR VIEW - exceptionally well developed.

Truth is - his legs are still somewhat lacking behind the UPPER BODY...But, here is the trick:
Flex magazine (FLEXONLINE reporters from previous Europa shows) went as far as making statement that Joel Stubbs has THE BEST UPPER BODY OF ALL TIMES!!!!
Imagine the magnitude of that statement!?

The best upper body world have ever witnessed...including Arnold, Sergio, Milos Grin, Haney, Colleman, Zane, Yates, Wheeler, Sarcev...well all the IFBB LEGENDS (suspended  ::)or not)...

So even if his legs ARE well developed - it is possible that his upper body (being the BEST EVER) will still overpower his well developed legs...so is this imbalance punishable (which seems to be the case) or should it be reworded Huh

I pointed out to one of the IFBB judges exactly this - and he said - "Well Milos - you said it - his balance is OFF...so that is why we penalize him..."

But, I had to add...than - how come some competitors with exceptional bodyparts - like Lee Haney, Dorian Yates...etc - get awarded for exceptional bodypart that is NOT balanced with the rest of their physiques? Joel's whole upper body is OUT OF THIS WORLD so why would he be penalized when others are reworded?

Hmmm, judge would whisper...you got the point...

WELL - DON'T I? Grin

So - let me continue:


CALVES and LOWER LEG MUSCLES - pretty good and especially considering that genetically he should have problem developing CALF muscles - he had ABOVE THE AVERAGE calves - beating many top Olympia competitors in that department...
Looking at last years top 6 - I would say that he beats Dexter (3), Ronnie (4), Dennis Wolf (5) and Melvin (6) in that department...and many more Olympians as well...

GASTROCNEMIUS
SOLEUS
PERONEALS
TIBIALIS ANTERIOR/POSTERIOR

All of these muscle groups are well developed and as I already mentioned - better than majority of the TOP 6 mr. Olympia finishers - SO KEEP THIS IN MIND!!!

GLUTEUS MINIMUS/MEDIUS/MAXIMUS - also...Well developed and defined...

ADDUCTOR COMPLEX (all 3 muscles: Adductor Longus, Brevis and Magnus)  - very well developed indeed and so is SARTORIUS (longest inner-thigh muscle)...



So - only ONE GROUP OF MUSCLES possibly in question: QUADRICEPS!!!

Look at many photos of Joels quads...

It is easy to notice that he has GREAT SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, and fully developed all 4 heads ("ceps") of QUADRI(4)-CEPS muscles...Vastus medialis (tear drop), Vastus lateralis (sweep), Vastus Intermedius/Rectus Femoris

Joel's problem is double surgery he had on both of his knees - souvenir from his basketball days...(by the way - his brother is basketball player and I had pleasure meeting him in Texas last weekend. Please - go ahead and shake hands with his brother...If you don't get the chills down your spine - I would be surprised...He doesn't have a hand...he has a giant baseball glove instead...)...

So, INJURY caused some muscle atrophy or loss...and somehow - in HIS CASE judges are penalizing him for it while OTHERS got a break...
Who?
Dorian Yates and his torn (and almost non existent) biceps...Chris d-i-c-kerson winning the Mr. Olympia 1982 with torn chest + biceps...Levrone, Tony Freeman with torn chest...etc...etc

So WHY is it OK for some but not for others?

Now THAT IS THE QUESTION NOW (rather than TO BE or NOT TO BE...of some...I don't know...well - nobody...What kind of stupid question is that? To be or not to be? To bodybuild or not to bodybuild makes much more sense...Well, if you don't compete...in the IFBB especially...[suspended cannot be suspended again...like double jeopardy... Grin Grin Grin]

OK, I am joking here - when I am talking about very serious issue.

Joel Stubbs is consummate professional who is putting a lot of effort into his profession enduring numerous sacrifices along the way...

He knows that competing at the highest level means possibility of the highest awards and therefore all the sacrifices are somewhat easier to cope with - believing that one of these days he will get his DUE justice and maybe MAKE SOME MONEY before he turns 100 years old...when winning Olympia and getting few million $ just wouldn't matter - like it would if he gets it TODAY (or the way I see it by 2009...)

Please, please, please - for the love of God - can more of you speak up and force judges to recognize and realize that Joel Stubbs should be getting comparisons with the very best...and I certainly hope that he would get his chance to possibly qualify for the Mr. Olympia in the next contest (Atlantic City...)...just weeks away...

Here is Joel at the Europa Supershow 2008

MILOS HOW MANY CALORIES DOES HE TAKE IN? Us musgayners are tweakin out of our spine to know this crucial informations from the great Milos , the master of getting hoes for over 4 straight decades?
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A
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2008, 05:53:44 AM »

The problem Milos....

His waist is too small, gut is not distended enough!!!

IFBB only truly awards the preggo bellies!
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2008, 05:56:22 AM »

Looks impressive!! Needs to up the dosages!!
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2008, 06:37:11 AM »

I like how Milos conveniently left out full body photos,  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2008, 06:44:37 AM »

big dude, all the way big dude
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2008, 06:47:54 AM »

monster calves.
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2008, 06:52:40 AM »

he is extremly wide, but has not the density of the "real greatest upper bodys in history" (this statement probably made by FLEX magazine is wrong, even his back is not as good as considered often)

and his legs are weak

i know, it s not easy to bild full quads beeing that tall, but his package is uncomplete an will remain uncomplete for ever

Agreed about the density.

Calves aren't THAT great, forearms create a terrible arm inbalance (even as far as making the biceps/triceps look small in the front double biceps - I'd work on that pose), hamstring separation is non-existant in the 2008 Europa shots. But he does have great points like a massive chest and back, thick legs and arms from the side and wide shouldered.

Best shot, besides the front lat spread:

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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2008, 07:25:29 AM »

Milos,
I can see where your coming from, but just can't agree with you.  Joel Stubbs upper body is untouchable, perhaps the best today.  You have heard this over and over again, that he lacks development in the lower body.  Well, maybe not development, but definitely size to match his upper body.  It doesn't matter about the tape measure or how big his muscles are.  Bodybuilding has to do with symmetry and proportions.  You should know this as you are a IFBB pro known to many to have one of the best symmetrical physiques out there.  It is ashame that he doesn't get the callouts and comparisons.  I would love to see him stand next to Jay or Dennis Wolf. 
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2008, 07:38:32 AM »

That's not Michael Arvilla.

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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2008, 08:19:40 AM »

i agree with Milos, Joel is an incredible bodybuilder.
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« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2008, 08:23:40 AM »

Milos has posted this before :"Joel's problem is double surgery he had on both of his knees - souvenir from his basketball days."
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