How many people here actually believe prayer has an affect on anything?

[kyomu]

The concentration of the conciousness give certain influence in the space and movement of particle.
----Roger Penrose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Penrose

With this theory, you can express the supernatural phenomenon caused by Pray(Concentration of conciousness).

And also, another aspects.---------Dowsing---------Why we know the place where there is water? We know everything? Our conciousness is connected to everything???

Coming soon in my blog!!

[big L dawg]

decide are u aethist or sumthing weird?

yea man r u aethist or weird? bahahahaaha fukin sheep

[wavelength]

There are actually 21,414 of us already

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=mlist

Don't be offensive, some of them are in the 12" sect.

[musclehedz]

granted through the grace of god

No, you control your own body and mind. Or do you believe god has some remote device available for himself to control every believer on earth?

[kyomu]

No, you control your own body and mind. Or do you believe god has some remote device available for himself to control every believer on earth?

Read this book. You will flipp out
http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Time-Consciousness-Perspectives-Neuroscience/dp/067401846X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219613970&sr=8-1

[dr.chimps]

granted through the grace of god

I haven't yet met an Irishman that didn't have issues of faith.   

[kyomu]

No, you control your own body and mind. Or do you believe god has some remote device available for himself to control every believer on earth?

And also, From a point of view of philosophy.
We dont have free will, WE ARE THE SLAVE OF CAUSALITY AND EFFECT!

[wavelength]

Read this book. You will flipp out
http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Time-Consciousness-Perspectives-Neuroscience/dp/067401846X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219613970&sr=8-1

Pseudo philosphy unfortunally.

[240 is Back]

here's a thought...

You know how the universe is expanding at 800 mile per second or whatever...  that's predetermined, right?  Determined by whatever caused it.

The way the planets and rocks rotate around each of those stars.... pre-determined by the original energy that started it all.

The way water forms, life evolves, rocks fall from the sky onto earth... that's all controlled by the original energy that caused the Big bang.

The way ants and lions act... all controlled by the set of circumstances and events from the big bang, which was caused by energy.


Why would people be any different?  Why wouldn't we be like every other lion, ant, waterfall, meteor, moon, planet, star, and galaxy... controlled by nothing but outside events predetermined by the original energy?

If you think you have free will, that's because the original energy gave you that perception.  Did you choose to be born?  will you choose to get cancer of the ass one day?  Did you choose your parents, or the water and air around you?

What have you chosen?  the way you interact with the people and esources around you (which incidentcally were given to you by chance, by the original energy)?



To me, if all the bigger events in the universe were predetermind by a bigger energy, then you and I sure were too.

[kyomu]

Pseudo philosphy unfortunally.

This is not a book of philosophy.
Its a book of the neuro science based on many experiment.

Our free will late too much after our brain prepare for action...

[wavelength]

This is not a book of philosophy.
Its a book of the neuro science based on many experiment.

Our free will late too much after our brain prepare for action...

Of course it's not philosophy, but the author claims to explain things that are not subject to science. Since he does so believing he still operates from within science, he is a pseudo-philospher. Neuro science cannot say anything substantial about consciousness or free will. That is just a misconception of some scientists, like Libet. His observations on the mentioned time delay have nothing to do with free will.

[wavelength]

here's a thought...

You know how the universe is expanding at 800 mile per second or whatever...  that's predetermined, right?  Determined by whatever caused it.

The way the planets and rocks rotate around each of those stars.... pre-determined by the original energy that started it all.

The way water forms, life evolves, rocks fall from the sky onto earth... that's all controlled by the original energy that caused the Big bang.

The way ants and lions act... all controlled by the set of circumstances and events from the big bang, which was caused by energy.


Why would people be any different?  Why wouldn't we be like every other lion, ant, waterfall, meteor, moon, planet, star, and galaxy... controlled by nothing but outside events predetermined by the original energy?

If you think you have free will, that's because the original energy gave you that perception.  Did you choose to be born?  will you choose to get cancer of the ass one day?  Did you choose your parents, or the water and air around you?

What have you chosen?  the way you interact with the people and esources around you (which incidentcally were given to you by chance, by the original energy)?



To me, if all the bigger events in the universe were predetermind by a bigger energy, then you and I sure were too.

Not bad, but the term "energy" is a bit worn out. For a sect leader, you must at least invent a new word for it.

[Ursus]

Born again christian in my work says

earth is less than 6000 years old and this is proved due to rates of erosion
noah actually built an ark literally
and the whole universe moves around the earth...thisis a theory called geo centricity

The last one is absurd

[kyomu]

Of course it's not philosophy, but the author claims to explain things that are not subject to science. Since he does so believing he still operates from within science, he is a pseudo-philospher. Neuro science cannot say anything substantial about consciousness or free will. That is just a misconception of some scientists, like Libet. His observations on the mentioned time delay have nothing to do with free will.

I see. Good point.
The problem always come from the defenition. And it is the most difficult theme and personaly i think impossible.

In my notion, from my experience of Taoism training, 100% of our movement is coming from the underconciousness and we believe that it is  free will superficialy. Thats why i relationed the free will with delay of the will.

And also, the quantum theory,Each foton move uncertainly but when they are many,move like wave.
Humanbeing behave like that also. When you see the big movement of society, you see certain tendency as if we are controled in some equation..

[240 is Back]

Not bad, but the term "energy" is a bit worn out. For a sect leader, you must at least invent a new word for it.

I'm too lazy to go starting a cult.  i'll just spew 20 seconds' worth of furious typing, skip the spellcheck, and then forget about the thread.  it's what i'm pre-determiend to do.

[Camel Jockey]

So you are daying "prayer" did NOT work due to their outcomes?

But what about millions of other patients that "do" pray, and they survive?

Look, nobody knows. You tell me to prove God exists, I say prove he doesn't. I dont believe the bible in LITERAL TERMS, but, i cant say its not possible

By that rationale everything is possible.

[Method101]

Only a moron prays.

Atheism is the only rational choice.

I agree.

[wavelength]

I'm too lazy to go starting a cult.  i'll just spew 20 seconds' worth of furious typing, skip the spellcheck, and then forget about the thread.  it's what i'm pre-determiend to do.

Great, now we're getting somewhere, a cult leader must always claim indifference. Plus the furious typing stuff clearly indicates that it's really not you writing, but something is writing through you. I could be your spin doctor, the following would be huge.

[wavelength]

I see. Good point.
The problem always come from the defenition. And it is the most difficult theme and personaly i think impossible.

In my notion, from my experience of Taoism training, 100% of our movement is coming from the underconciousness and we believe that it is  free will superficialy. Thats why i relationed the free will with delay of the will.

And also, the quantum theory,Each foton move uncertainly but when they are many,move like wave.
Humanbeing behave like that also. When you see the big movement of society, you see certain tendency as if we are controled in some equation..

IMO it's always dangerous to use scientific concepts like quantum theory for philosophic purposes. That is because in the scientific world, these concepts are nothing more than an imagination behind mathematic formulas, although many scientists overlook this fact. This imagination however should (and can) only serve one purpose: easier understanding of the formulas and starting the creative process to generate new scientific theories. The concepts itself have no real meaning in science. If you imagine completely different concepts behind the same set of mathematical formulas, it makes no difference to science at all.

So in fact your contemplations about e.g. matter vs. wave do not really have any basis in science, rather these concepts are borrowed by science from what was already there in the first place.

[kyomu]

IMO it's always dangerous to use scientific concepts like quantum theory for philosophic purposes. That is because in the scientific world, these concepts are nothing more than an imagination behind mathematic formulas, although many scientists overlook this fact. This imagination however should (and can) only serve one purpose: easier understanding of the formulas and starting the creative process to generate new scientific theories. The concepts itself have no real meaning in science. If you imagine completely different concepts behind the same set of mathematical formulas, it makes no difference to science at all.

So in fact your contemplations about e.g. matter vs. wave do not really have any basis in science, rather these concepts are borrowed by science from what was already there in the first place.

Hahahahahhahahaha. You are not normal person arnt you?
You are godamn right!
There is no such a thing which indicate absolute truth.

[Hereford]

Kyomu

Shouldn't you be off worshipping the Emperor or something?

[wavelength]

Hahahahahhahahaha. You are not normal person arnt you?
You are godamn right!
There is no such a thing which indicate absolute truth.

You're absolutely right, I'm an Austrian Superman, like Arnold.  

[wavelength]

Kyomu

Shouldn't you be off worshipping the Emperor or something?

He is already. 

[arce377]

"God does NOT play dice with the Universe."
  - Albert Einstein

[Hereford]

The guy managed to talk for nearly eight minutes without actually saying anything.   


I want my eight minutes back! 

You will never get those eight minutes back.

Say Sayonora