Author Topic: War for Oil?  (Read 9965 times)

Dos Equis

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War for Oil?
« on: August 26, 2008, 03:13:11 PM »
What is the evidence that we (the United States government) went to war in Iraq to obtain control of and/or profit from Iraq's oil? 

Assuming such evidence exists (whatever it is), doesn't seem like we were too successful. 

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 03:19:22 PM »
What is the evidence that we (the United States government) went to war in Iraq to obtain control of and/or profit from Iraq's oil? 

Assuming such evidence exists (whatever it is), doesn't seem like we were too successful. 

Oh boy...must be a Christian thing.

I hate the State.

Dos Equis

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 03:21:16 PM »
O.K.  One knucklehead nonresponse.   ::)

Next?   :)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2008, 03:26:16 PM »
What is the evidence that we (the United States government) went to war in Iraq to obtain control of and/or profit from Iraq's oil? 

Assuming such evidence exists (whatever it is), doesn't seem like we were too successful. 
John McCain says so :D

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2008, 03:34:19 PM »
John McCain says so :D

He was just agreeing with Bush (12-14-06) and Greenspan.

He is a child.  He doesn't understand things like global energy systems.

“I will have an energy policy which will eliminate our dependence on oil from Middle East that will then prevent us from having ever to send our young men and women into conflict again in the Middel East”


Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2008, 03:35:18 PM »
Secret U.S. Plans For Iraq's Oil
By Greg Palast

Reporting for BBC Newsnight (London)

Why was Paul Wolfowitz pushed out of the Pentagon onto the World Bank -- The answer lies in a 323-page document, secret until now, indicating that the allies of Big Oil in the Bush Administration have defeated neo-conservatives and their chief Wolfowitz. BBC Television Newsnight tells the true story of the fall of the neo-cons. An investigation conducted by BBC with Harper's magazine will also reveal that the US State Department made detailed plans for war in Iraq -- and for Iraq's oil -- within weeks of Bush's first inauguration in 2001.

The Bush administration made plans for war and for Iraq's oil before the 9/11 attacks sparking a policy battle between neo-cons and Big Oil, BBC's Newsnight has revealed.

Two years ago today - when President George Bush announced US, British and Allied forces would begin to bomb Baghdad - protestors claimed the US had a secret plan for Iraq's oil once Saddam had been conquered.

In fact there were two conflicting plans, setting off a hidden policy war between neo-conservatives at the Pentagon, on one side, versus a combination of "Big Oil" executives and US State Department "pragmatists."

"Big Oil" appears to have won. The latest plan, obtained by Newsnight from the US State Department was, we learned, drafted with the help of American oil industry consultants.

Insiders told Newsnight that planning began "within weeks" of Bush's first taking office in 2001, long before the September 11th attack on the US.

An Iraqi-born oil industry consultant, Falah Aljibury, says he took part in the secret meetings in California, Washington and the Middle East. He described a State Department plan for a forced coup d'etat.

Mr Aljibury himself told Newsnight that he interviewed potential successors to Saddam Hussein on behalf of the Bush administration.

Secret sell-off plan

The industry-favoured plan was pushed aside by yet another secret plan, drafted just before the invasion in 2003, which called for the sell-off of all of Iraq's oil fields. The new plan, crafted by neo-conservatives intent on using Iraq's oil to destroy the Opec cartel through massive increases in production above Opec quotas.

The sell-off was given the green light in a secret meeting in London headed by Fadhil Chalabi shortly after the US entered Baghdad, according to Robert Ebel. Mr. Ebel, a former Energy and CIA oil analyst, now a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, flew to the London meeting, he told Newsnight, at the request of the State Department.

Mr Aljibury, once Ronald Reagan's "back-channel" to Saddam, claims that plans to sell off Iraq's oil, pushed by the US-installed Governing Council in 2003, helped instigate the insurgency and attacks on US and British occupying forces.

"Insurgents used this, saying, 'Look, you're losing your country, your losing your resources to a bunch of wealthy billionaires who want to take you over and make your life miserable," said Mr Aljibury from his home near San Francisco.

"We saw an increase in the bombing of oil facilities, pipelines, built on the premise that privatization is coming."

Privatization blocked by industry

Philip Carroll, the former CEO of Shell Oil USA who took control of Iraq's oil production for the US Government a month after the invasion, stalled the sell-off scheme.

Mr Carroll told us he made it clear to Paul Bremer, the US occupation chief who arrived in Iraq in May 2003, that: "There was to be no privatization of Iraqi oil resources or facilities while I was involved."

The chosen successor to Mr Carroll, a Conoco Oil executive, ordered up a new plan for a state oil company preferred by the industry.

Ari Cohen, of the neo-conservative Heritage Foundation, told Newsnight that an opportunity had been missed to privatise Iraq's oil fields. He advocated the plan as a means to help the US defeat Opec, and said America should have gone ahead with what he called a "no-brainer" decision.

Mr Carroll hit back, telling Newsnight, "I would agree with that statement. To privatize would be a no-brainer. It would only be thought about by someone with no brain."

New plans, obtained from the State Department by Newsnight and Harper's Magazine under the US Freedom of Information Act, called for creation of a state-owned oil company favored by the US oil industry. It was completed in January 2004, Harper's discovered, under the guidance of Amy Jaffe of the James Baker Institute in Texas. Former US Secretary of State Baker is now an attorney. His law firm, Baker Botts, is representing ExxonMobil and the Saudi Arabian government.

Questioned by Newsnight, Ms Jaffe said the oil industry prefers state control of Iraq's oil over a sell-off because it fears a repeat of Russia's energy privatization. In the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union, US oil companies were barred from bidding for the reserves.

Jaffe said "There is no question that an American oil company ... would not be enthusiastic about a plan that would privatize all the assets with Iraq companies and they (US companies) might be left out of the transaction."

In addition, Ms. Jaffe says US oil companies are not warm to any plan that would undermine Opec, "They [oil companies] have to worry about the price of oil."

"I'm not sure that if I'm the chair of an American company, and you put me on a lie detector test, I would say high oil prices are bad for me or my company."

The former Shell oil boss agrees. In Houston, he told Newsnight, "Many neo conservatives are people who have certain ideological beliefs about markets, about democracy, about this that and the other. International oil companies without exception are very pragmatic commercial organizations. They don't have a theology."

A State Department spokesman told Newsnight they intended "to provide all possibilities to the Oil Ministry of Iraq and advocate none".

Greg Palast's film - the result of a joint investigation by Newsnight and Harper's Magazine - will broadcast on Thursday, 17 March, 2005.

You can watch the program online from Democracy Now!

Read the story in greater detail in the April issue of Harper's magazine.

Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy." View his writing at www.GregPalast.com

Leni von Eckardt contributed investigative research for this

http://www.gregpalast.com/secret-us-plans-for-iraqs-oil/

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2008, 03:37:45 PM »
U.S. Senator Richard Lugar, Republican Party chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has threatened France and Russia, saying that if they don't support Bush's invasion plans they'll get no share in Iraq's oil resources (Oil and Gas International's 'World Industry News', January 27, 2003).

The Bush Administration's most outspoken war-for-oil proponent is Richard Perle, chair of the Defense Policy Board, a Pentagon advisory group. Perle's Rand Corporation report briefing submitted in July, 2002 recommended invading Iraq as a first step in gaining U.S. control over oil throughout the Middle East, especially Saudi Arabia (Boston Globe, September 10, 2002).

"Oil giants including ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, and ConocoPhillips are the most likely to lead any development efforts in a post-war Iraq," according to energy analyst Peter Zeihan of Stratfor, an intelligence-consulting group based in Austin, Texas ("Reaping the spoils of war: Ousting Saddam could put U.S. oil giants in 'driver's seat'," CBS.MarketWatch.com, January 31, 2003).

Executives from U.S. oil firms have been conferring with officials from the White House, State Department and Defense Department on lucrative contracts to rebuild and run Iraq's oil industry after the war, according to The Wall Street Journal. "[T]he early spoils would probably go to companies needed to keep Iraq's already run-down oil operations running, especially if facilities were further damaged in a war. Oil-services firms such as Halliburton Co., where Vice President Dick Cheney formerly served as chief executive, and Schlumberger Ltd. are seen as favorites for what could be as much as $1.5 billion in contracts. The major oil and natural-gas producers won't be far behind." ("U.S. Oil Wants to Work in Iraq", January 16, 2003)

Such reports have prompted consumer advocate and 2000 Green presidential candidate Ralph Nader to ask about the extent to which oil companies were involved in the decision to invade Iraq. "The American people also have a right to know what was discussed in the numerous secret meetings Vice President Cheney's national energy task force held with oil and gas executives." ("What Role the Oil Industry Playing in Bush's Drive to War?", by Ralph Nader, CommonDreams.org, February 14, 2003)

The U.S. consumes 26% of the world's oil, but possesses only 2% of the world's oil reserves.  The U.S. imports 9.8 million barrels of oil a day, more than half of its 19.5 million barrels a  day consumption. Cheney's national energy plan, drafted during the secret meetings with oil executives, wants the U.S. to import 17 million barrels a day, or 2/3 of daily oil consumption, by 2020. The plan makes energy security, including control over the availability of oil to other nations, a priority of U.S. foreign policy.

Outside the U.S., the oil motivation is more openly discussed. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw acknowledged in a recent speech to British ambassadors that oil is the main motivation for Blair's support for Bush's war, much more so than any threat of weapons of mass destruction.


Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2008, 03:38:44 PM »
By the way, Bill O'Rielly introduced Greg Palast as "one of the world's foremost energy experts"  ;D  So if he's good for Fox ;D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2008, 03:45:44 PM »
starting about 50 seconds in:  This is before the second plan was discovered by Palast.

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2008, 03:49:35 PM »
Let's not forget our pipelines running from the Caspian through Georgia...
I hate the State.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2008, 03:50:32 PM »
Let's not forget our pipelines running from the Caspian through Georgia...
I sure didn't.

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2008, 03:57:29 PM »
I sure didn't.

But Mr. Hawaii 05 definitely did...
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2008, 04:01:22 PM »
Here's one of the best presentations by greg and really clears up some popular misconceptions on the war for oil.  Go to 27:30 of the video, where he starts talking about oil.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6802228062297352475&hl=en

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2008, 04:13:40 PM »
Uhmm...how did Bush get to be our president again?! ??? :o
I hate the State.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2008, 04:19:21 PM »
How do you stand these liberal liars Beach Bum...


You know they just make this shit up!!!


S

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2008, 04:23:23 PM »
Uhmm...how did Bush get to be our president again?! ??? :o
He/they rigged the elections.

MB_722

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2008, 04:27:03 PM »
How do you stand these liberal liars Beach Bum...


You know they just make this shit up!!!




hahaha  :)

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2008, 04:27:32 PM »
He/they rigged the elections.

eh, you just gave BB a pass to redirect the thread into an 00/04 election debate.

He was saveagely owned on a thread he started, by neocon approved speakers.  

Now he'll ignore all the irrefutable evidence and talk about the 2004 election :(

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2008, 04:31:23 PM »
eh, you just gave BB a pass to redirect the thread into an 00/04 election debate.

He was saveagely owned on a thread he started, by neocon approved speakers.  

Now he'll ignore all the irrefutable evidence and talk about the 2004 election :(
oops!!!  Ok, BB is an honorable and righteous dude... I have confidence he'll review the oil material and respond...  Don't let me down my man, BB, what say you :D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2008, 05:00:06 PM »
Here's one of the best presentations by greg and really clears up some popular misconceptions on the war for oil.  Go to 27:30 of the video, where he starts talking about oil.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6802228062297352475&hl=en
This really has some absolutely priceless shit in it.  I hope you all give this one a listen.  If there is any doubts, Greg Palast does back his shit up with actual documents, tapes and interviews.  As I've said before, this guy has a real tallent for being able to walk right into corporate headquarters and get them to turn over stuff they would never want released to the public.  So he does back his shit up... Everything he talks about here is backed and proven true through actual document, video or audio and has appeared in various documentaries and publications through the BBC and other means.

MB_722

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2008, 06:40:59 PM »
This really has some absolutely priceless shit in it.  I hope you all give this one a listen.  If there is any doubts, Greg Palast does back his shit up with actual documents, tapes and interviews.  As I've said before, this guy has a real tallent for being able to walk right into corporate headquarters and get them to turn over stuff they would never want released to the public.  So he does back his shit up... Everything he talks about here is backed and proven true through actual document, video or audio and has appeared in various documentaries and publications through the BBC and other means.

I'm going to fwd to that point.
quick question, have you posted this before. I had deja vu when I opened the link

we need better emoticons already.

Dos Equis

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2008, 06:43:35 PM »
Secret U.S. Plans For Iraq's Oil
By Greg Palast

Reporting for BBC Newsnight (London)

Why was Paul Wolfowitz pushed out of the Pentagon onto the World Bank -- The answer lies in a 323-page document, secret until now, indicating that the allies of Big Oil in the Bush Administration have defeated neo-conservatives and their chief Wolfowitz. BBC Television Newsnight tells the true story of the fall of the neo-cons. An investigation conducted by BBC with Harper's magazine will also reveal that the US State Department made detailed plans for war in Iraq -- and for Iraq's oil -- within weeks of Bush's first inauguration in 2001.

The Bush administration made plans for war and for Iraq's oil before the 9/11 attacks sparking a policy battle between neo-cons and Big Oil, BBC's Newsnight has revealed.

Two years ago today - when President George Bush announced US, British and Allied forces would begin to bomb Baghdad - protestors claimed the US had a secret plan for Iraq's oil once Saddam had been conquered.

In fact there were two conflicting plans, setting off a hidden policy war between neo-conservatives at the Pentagon, on one side, versus a combination of "Big Oil" executives and US State Department "pragmatists."

"Big Oil" appears to have won. The latest plan, obtained by Newsnight from the US State Department was, we learned, drafted with the help of American oil industry consultants.

Insiders told Newsnight that planning began "within weeks" of Bush's first taking office in 2001, long before the September 11th attack on the US.

An Iraqi-born oil industry consultant, Falah Aljibury, says he took part in the secret meetings in California, Washington and the Middle East. He described a State Department plan for a forced coup d'etat.

Mr Aljibury himself told Newsnight that he interviewed potential successors to Saddam Hussein on behalf of the Bush administration.

Secret sell-off plan

The industry-favoured plan was pushed aside by yet another secret plan, drafted just before the invasion in 2003, which called for the sell-off of all of Iraq's oil fields. The new plan, crafted by neo-conservatives intent on using Iraq's oil to destroy the Opec cartel through massive increases in production above Opec quotas.

The sell-off was given the green light in a secret meeting in London headed by Fadhil Chalabi shortly after the US entered Baghdad, according to Robert Ebel. Mr. Ebel, a former Energy and CIA oil analyst, now a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, flew to the London meeting, he told Newsnight, at the request of the State Department.

Mr Aljibury, once Ronald Reagan's "back-channel" to Saddam, claims that plans to sell off Iraq's oil, pushed by the US-installed Governing Council in 2003, helped instigate the insurgency and attacks on US and British occupying forces.

"Insurgents used this, saying, 'Look, you're losing your country, your losing your resources to a bunch of wealthy billionaires who want to take you over and make your life miserable," said Mr Aljibury from his home near San Francisco.

"We saw an increase in the bombing of oil facilities, pipelines, built on the premise that privatization is coming."

Privatization blocked by industry

Philip Carroll, the former CEO of Shell Oil USA who took control of Iraq's oil production for the US Government a month after the invasion, stalled the sell-off scheme.

Mr Carroll told us he made it clear to Paul Bremer, the US occupation chief who arrived in Iraq in May 2003, that: "There was to be no privatization of Iraqi oil resources or facilities while I was involved."

The chosen successor to Mr Carroll, a Conoco Oil executive, ordered up a new plan for a state oil company preferred by the industry.

Ari Cohen, of the neo-conservative Heritage Foundation, told Newsnight that an opportunity had been missed to privatise Iraq's oil fields. He advocated the plan as a means to help the US defeat Opec, and said America should have gone ahead with what he called a "no-brainer" decision.

Mr Carroll hit back, telling Newsnight, "I would agree with that statement. To privatize would be a no-brainer. It would only be thought about by someone with no brain."

New plans, obtained from the State Department by Newsnight and Harper's Magazine under the US Freedom of Information Act, called for creation of a state-owned oil company favored by the US oil industry. It was completed in January 2004, Harper's discovered, under the guidance of Amy Jaffe of the James Baker Institute in Texas. Former US Secretary of State Baker is now an attorney. His law firm, Baker Botts, is representing ExxonMobil and the Saudi Arabian government.

Questioned by Newsnight, Ms Jaffe said the oil industry prefers state control of Iraq's oil over a sell-off because it fears a repeat of Russia's energy privatization. In the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union, US oil companies were barred from bidding for the reserves.

Jaffe said "There is no question that an American oil company ... would not be enthusiastic about a plan that would privatize all the assets with Iraq companies and they (US companies) might be left out of the transaction."

In addition, Ms. Jaffe says US oil companies are not warm to any plan that would undermine Opec, "They [oil companies] have to worry about the price of oil."

"I'm not sure that if I'm the chair of an American company, and you put me on a lie detector test, I would say high oil prices are bad for me or my company."

The former Shell oil boss agrees. In Houston, he told Newsnight, "Many neo conservatives are people who have certain ideological beliefs about markets, about democracy, about this that and the other. International oil companies without exception are very pragmatic commercial organizations. They don't have a theology."

A State Department spokesman told Newsnight they intended "to provide all possibilities to the Oil Ministry of Iraq and advocate none".

Greg Palast's film - the result of a joint investigation by Newsnight and Harper's Magazine - will broadcast on Thursday, 17 March, 2005.

You can watch the program online from Democracy Now!

Read the story in greater detail in the April issue of Harper's magazine.

Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times bestseller, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy." View his writing at www.GregPalast.com

Leni von Eckardt contributed investigative research for this

http://www.gregpalast.com/secret-us-plans-for-iraqs-oil/

So according to this there was a "secret plan" by the Bush Administration to start a war in Iraq to seize Iraq's oil.  

Hereford

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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2008, 06:47:42 PM »
Why do we have to have a secret plan?

Go in there and take that shit. We can build the festering shithold country back up to better than it ever has been. Hell, there are parts of Texas and California that are in worse shape than Baghdad.

They should be happy it's the US and not Russia coming down on them.

Ungrateful goat-lovers...


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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2008, 06:48:56 PM »
So according to this there was a "secret plan" by the Bush Administration to start a war in Iraq to seize Iraq's oil.  

There are at least $50 trillion dollars worth of oil under Iraq.

Nations have been invading other nations for centuries for their resources.

We're the #1 nation in the world - the only superpower.

We achieved this status by exploiting others, and war.



You're not a dumb guy, Beach Bum.  Why would you believe that every other country in the world does this - but we do not?


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Re: War for Oil?
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2008, 06:50:14 PM »
Go in there and take that shit. We can build the festering shithold country back up to better than it ever has been. Hell, there are parts of Texas and California that are in worse shape than Baghdad.

I admire your honesty on taking the oil.  Bush himself admitted it 19 months ago.