There's blood in the Republican waters

[The True Adonis]

Whatever. My guest are arriving. I can't debate the merits of capitalism with you kid. Good luck. Enjoy your liberties.

Bowing out so quickly?

[Cardfan]

Not bowing out. I have people showing up for a cook-out. Showed this thread to the first few guests. They are very amused by your opinions. I'll take it up later if you haven't yet seen the light.

BTW you are right about the Declaration. I just get a kick out of it and thought it might do you some good.

[The True Adonis]

Not bowing out. I have people showing up for a cook-out. Showed this thread to the first few guests. They are very amused by your opinions. I'll take it up later if you haven't yet seen the light.

BTW you are right about the Declaration. I just get a kick out of it and thought it might do you some good.

Discuss it amongst them and I will await your return my good friend!  At least I gave you guys something to talk about during your cookout!

[The True Adonis]

 

[Cardfan]

Ok. I have a very eclectic circle of friends but the (admittedly) more stuffy bunch was here tonight. One is a judge and another is an economics professor at a local college. Granted it's not your best school, but his education and experience are beyond reproach. Two of the smartest people I know. We, briefly, discussed your position on the whole: the-government-can-do-everything-better-than-us position. It boils down to this: If you take away competition, people have no incentive to preform better. Bureaucrats don't care about who they are supposed to help, but people whose jobs depend on it do. I think I already told ya this but I feel vindicated now that these two gentlemen agree with me. 

[The True Adonis]

Ok. I have a very eclectic circle of friends but the (admittedly) more stuffy bunch was here tonight. One is a judge and another is an economics professor at a local college. Granted it's not your best school, but his education and experience are beyond reproach. Two of the smartest people I know. We, briefly, discussed your position on the whole: the-government-can-do-everything-better-than-us position. It boils down to this: If you take away competition, people have no incentive to preform better. Bureaucrats don't care about who they are supposed to help, but people whose jobs depend on it do. I think I already told ya this but I feel vindicated now that these two gentlemen agree with me. 

That still is no evidence of your assertion.  You are operating on assumption.

[Cardfan]

Please refresh my memory

[stormshadow]

Can you or can you NOT give me one instance where the Private Sector has outperformed a Governmental body in a specific and related area?

Government DOES NOT automatically equal corruption or bureaucracy.  Wouldn`t Enron or Halliburton have a bit more of that going on.

I fail to see any validity in any of your arguments nor have you proven any of your claims or statements with facts. 

You just are doing what everyone else does, myth-making and parroting a false talking point in the hopes that he who squawks the loudest is the supreme squawker.

When Trump repaired the Wollman Rink. 

City of New York squandered 13 Million with no progress.  Trump started from scratch and came in at 750,000 under his 3 Million dollar budget.

Owned, shut up, and stop making such stupid challenges.

[stormshadow]

The government is not some foreign entity meant to be a separate antagonizer of the people.  The government is FOR the people and BY the people. When the government runs smoothly it works VERY well.

I think any business with unlimited capital could work very well.  Try taking that out of the equation.

You like to ignore the fact that we pay 300 Billion per year in interest payments on the national debt.  With the regular budget at 600 Billion, we are borrowing money to make interest payments.

Sounds like a fine tuned machine to me.

[Rearden Metal]

Goatboy: I understand your POV. I happen to disagree on a fundamental level, but I respect that you've arrived at your beliefs through your experience.

One thing though. Why do you think the McCain camp chose Palin?

[The True Adonis]

When Trump repaired the Wollman Rink. 

City of New York squandered 13 Million with no progress.  Trump started from scratch and came in at 750,000 under his 3 Million dollar budget.

Owned, shut up, and stop making such stupid challenges.

Looks like Wollman Rink, a privately started venture, fell into disrepair during the time When Trump was leasing it.  Sorry, you lose.

Wollman Rink


Wollman Skating Rink is a public ice rink in the southern part of Central Park, Manhattan, New York City. The rink was opened in 1949 with funds donated by Kate Wollman. Historically, the rink has been open for ice skating from October to April and in the summer seasons is transformed into a venue for other purposes.

The Rink has been used as the venue for several summer concerts. The first annual summer music festival at there was sponsored by Rheingold beer company and opened on July 1, 1966. The Rheingold Central Park Music Festival also took place during the summer of 1967.[1] The first annual Schaefer Music Festival opened on June 27, 1968 and ran each summer through 1976.[1] The first annual Dr. Pepper Music Festival opened on July 6, 1977 and ran annually through the summer of 1980 (the 15th, and last annual music festival held at the Wollman Rink).[1]
Summertime
Summertime

The venue no longer hosts concerts, but it is still used for public ice skating in the winter and in the summer it houses the Victorian Gardens Amusement Park.[1]

Wollman Rink has also been featured in several movies, including Love Story.

Wollman Rink is currently operated by the Trump organization, and is today known as the Trump Wollman Skating Rink. Donald Trump leased the rink from 1987 to 1991. From 1991 to 2001 George Makkos from The Makkos Organization of M&T Preztle, operated Wollman Rink. Since 2001, Wollman Rink has been operated by a joint venture between Trump Organization and Rink Management Services of Mechanicsville VA. Trump completely rebuilt the Rink.

[The True Adonis]

I think any business with unlimited capital could work very well.  Try taking that out of the equation.

You like to ignore the fact that we pay 300 Billion per year in interest payments on the national debt.  With the regular budget at 600 Billion, we are borrowing money to make interest payments.

Sounds like a fine tuned machine to me.

We were in a surplus under Clinton.  The Republicans have historically been the cause of the massive borrowing and growing debt.

[The True Adonis]

I think any business with unlimited capital could work very well.  Try taking that out of the equation.

You like to ignore the fact that we pay 300 Billion per year in interest payments on the national debt.  With the regular budget at 600 Billion, we are borrowing money to make interest payments.

Sounds like a fine tuned machine to me.

Pharmaceutical companies have more capital than the NIH and the NIH ALWAYS outperforms them in research and development.  This is just one instance of government efficiency over private. 

[The True Adonis]

Just so you know for future reference, Wollman Park has always been a PRIVATE venture not connected to the state budget in any way other than requested grants by its owner, Donald Trump.

Here is some more history on your Wollman Park.

Wollman Rink was built in 1949 when Kate Wollman donated $600,000 for it's construction. In the early 1990's, it was purchased and is now run by Donald Trump. It has been a success from the day it opened - over 300,000 skaters glided across the ice in its first year of operation. In use the year round the summer months find hundreds of in-line skaters taking lessons or perfecting more advanced skills.

[Cardfan]

ok Comrade

[Voice of Doom]

ok Comrade

Translation = I have no reply because I've used up all the metaphors I got from
Fox news.

Good showing Adonis.  And for the record.  Competition (i.e greed) is not the only reason people invent, prosper or create.  There are other human emotions for 'bettering' yourself and humanity...it's just that greed is reinforced in this society by the ruling elite because it keeps the sheep fighting with each other while the Shepard makes off with the loot.

You should start by reading a little Chomsky.

There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tze

[stormshadow]

Just so you know for future reference, Wollman Park has always been a PRIVATE venture not connected to the state budget in any way other than requested grants by its owner, Donald Trump.

Here is some more history on your Wollman Park.

Wollman Rink was built in 1949 when Kate Wollman donated $600,000 for it's construction. In the early 1990's, it was purchased and is now run by Donald Trump. It has been a success from the day it opened - over 300,000 skaters glided across the ice in its first year of operation. In use the year round the summer months find hundreds of in-line skaters taking lessons or perfecting more advanced skills.

"On the morning of May 22, 1986 there was a story on the front page of the New York Times saying that New York City officials had decided to start all over in their effort to rebuild the Wollman Skating Rink in Central Park."  Trump Art of the Deal p.301

The city was responsible for rebuilding it, they spent 13 Million with no progress.  Trump came in and did it for well under 3 Million.

Sorry, You Lose.

[CARTEL]

Translation = I have no reply because I've used up all the metaphors I got from
Fox news.

Good showing Adonis.  And for the record.  Competition (i.e greed) is not the only reason people invent, prosper or create.  There are other human emotions for 'bettering' yourself and humanity...it's just that greed is reinforced in this society by the ruling elite because it keeps the sheep fighting with each other while the Shepard makes off with the loot.

You should start by reading a little Chomsky.

There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tze

You, and Chomsky, are living a pipe dream.

For Socialism to "work", the human factor would have to be perfect.

How many perfect humans do you know besides me?

[The True Adonis]

"On the morning of May 22, 1986 there was a story on the front page of the New York Times saying that New York City officials had decided to start all over in their effort to rebuild the Wollman Skating Rink in Central Park."  Trump Art of the Deal p.301

The city was responsible for rebuilding it, they spent 13 Million with no progress.  Trump came in and did it for well under 3 Million.

Sorry, You Lose.

Trump built it the way he wanted it built.  There is no evidence of anything other than that.

[pellius]

TA, name one instance in history where socialism has worked? When China and India veered more toward capitalism their economies exploded. You are wrong about those government agencies you mentioned. I don't think you've ever run a business or done much shipping but UPS and FedEx are way better than the USPS. If they weren't nobody would use them. Care to compare public education with private? You think government can do a better job building computers, making clothes, producing food than the private sector. Compare the customer service you get at AAA than at the DMV?

Some things the government has to do. One of their jobs is to protect the people and that includes things as diverse as police, food inspection, weights and measures, national defense; but there is always going to be an inherent inefficiency since there is no competition and no profit motive. That's how the military can charge hundreds of dollars for a toilet seat. There's no incentive when you are spending other people's money. But it's a trade off. The Constitution is very specific in the role the government plays in our lives and it has gotten way too big and way too intrusive.

[timfogarty]

The Constitution is very specific in the role the government plays in our lives and it has gotten way too big and way too intrusive.

yes, it has.  and it is the Republican's fault. The deficit exploded under Reagan, continued through Bush I, Clinton got it under control, reducing the size of government and leaving a budget surplus.   Then things all went to hell under Bush II.

same with civil liberties.  Between Bush's signing statements and the War on Terror, the power of the executive branch has grown dramatically for the worse.

[stormshadow]

Trump built it the way he wanted it built.  There is no evidence of anything other than that.

New York Times, Front Page, May 22, 1986.

[gymguy]

It's amazing how old, staunch Republicans will not waver, even in the face of such a meltdown. Smart people will disboard the ship when it's half sunk. People of ethics will get off when the party is flagrantly in violation of it's own.

I play cards at a casino full time. Most of my opponents are older, retired guys. They're decent guys. They've spent a life either in service, or working hard to support thier families. In thier time as youth, the Republican party was the adult, responsible choice. Somewhere along the line, it deteriorated into the neo-con mess it is today. But disclosure was not a part of American politics until Clinton got a bj. Since, it's come to light how fucked the Repubs really are.

Unfortunately for the now aged men who have spent a life doing what they think was right, it's clear to them and any other person of intelligence that thier party did not have thier best interests in mind. More unfortunate, however, is that they feel beholden to continue to support the party or otherwise risk a disassembling of the beliefs they've held on to for so long.

The result is that despite the obvious failure of the Bush Administration (on a scale unmatched), and the floundering of the Repubs in nominating a geriatric and appointing a complete novice with a closet full of skeletons as VP, these supporters still hang on to the elephant. It's sad, really.

and what have the dems, who control congress, done???  Oh yeah, they passed 9 bills.  Big deal!!!  As typical with the left, they simply complain. Well, that's the easy part....anyone can complain.

[stormshadow]

and what have the dems, who control congress, done???  Oh yeah, they passed 9 bills.  Big deal!!!  As typical with the left, they simply complain. Well, that's the easy part....anyone can complain.

...and the Moral of the story is: Why Complain?

[BM OUT]

Its funny how the dems will attack a 17 year old girl and say "she is part of the story",but when Al Gores drug addicted,snot nose,punk kid was driving around at 100mph zooted up on drugs and was pulled over with a pharmacy in his car[by the way,more then once]the dems scream "kids are off limits".The idea that any sports fan could EVER vote for a ticket with Joe Biden on it is nuts.He has tried to kill sports and turn athletes into criminals.Sorry,Im sick of paying for scum bags who wont get off their lazy asses and work.I will vote for McCain.