The Adonis Diet Principles, Open-Source

[wavelength]

I think the myth of cardio in the adonis principles should be taken out
if it didn't work would people waste their time doing it?
would I?
would professionals?
just because some people are lazy and don't want to do it doesn't mean that it doesn't work 

Professionals must be taken out of the picture. I said that numerous times. I have no idea how taking the substances they take affect the principles.

Again, I don't claim that cardio is useless for burning calories. The principles also don't say that cardio is forbidden. If people have an easier time dieting down by eating more and doing 1h of cardio a day, that's fine. I just don't think it makes a significant difference for the purpose of maintaning as much muscle as possible at a certain rate of weight loss, as long as P1-P5 are met. I admit that I'm lazy, but that's not the reason for skipping cardio. The reason is, that in my case, without cardio actually works better.

Your case seems to be pretty similar to that of bigpanda. You said that you can eat twice as much when on 1h cardio per day. If this is true, it's probably easier for you to do cardio and eat more. However, to prove that cardio makes a significant difference, you would still have to do the following:

- perform a complete cutting diet (e.g. from 15% to 7%) meeting P1-P5 but with cardio,
- perform a complete cutting diet (e.g. from 15% to 7%) meeting P1-P5 without cardio.

Then you would have to compare the ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss on both diets. I did that and in my case, not only was there no significant difference, but without cardio works even better.

I should also again repeat that I have one day in the week where I do not restrict my calories. That's maybe why I can still keep my calories at a resonable level during the week. If the loading days are really necessary however, I don't know, I've never tried to skip them completely.

[ASJChaotic]

Professionals must be taken out of the picture. I said that numerous times. I have no idea how taking the substances they take affect the principles.

Again, I don't claim that cardio is useless for burning calories. The principles also don't say that cardio is forbidden. If people have an easier time dieting down by eating more and doing 1h of cardio a day, that's fine. I just don't think it makes a significant difference for the purpose of maintaning as much muscle as possible at a certain rate of weight loss, as long as P1-P5 are met. I admit that I'm lazy, but that's not the reason for skipping cardio. The reason is, that in my case, without cardio actually works better.

Your case seems to be pretty similar to that of bigpanda. You said that you can eat twice as much when on 1h cardio per day. If this is true, it's probably easier for you to do cardio and eat more. However, to prove that cardio makes a significant difference, you would still have to do the following:

- perform a complete cutting diet (e.g. from 15% to 7%) meeting P1-P5 but with cardio,
- perform a complete cutting diet (e.g. from 15% to 7%) meeting P1-P5 without cardio.

Then you would have to compare the ratio of fat loss vs. muscle loss on both diets. I did that and in my case, not only was there no significant difference, but without cardio works even better.

I should also again repeat that I have one day in the week where I do not restrict my calories. That's maybe why I can still keep my calories at a resonable level during the week. If the loading days are really necessary however, I don't know, I've never tried to skip them completely.

how about I make it easier for you and let you see who gets a better place in MR. Getbig, me or true adonis? 

[onlyme]

how about I make it easier for you and let you see who gets a better place in MR. Getbig, me or true adonis? 

Dude you have no muscle and you are skinny as hell.  At least Apenis has some muscle you can see.  Don't bother joining Mr. Getbig, go join a gym.  Also, are you gay?  You pose and look very gay.  Also, where do you live?  Are you the infamous Shadow.

[ASJChaotic]

Dude you have no muscle and you are skinny as hell.  At least Apenis has some muscle you can see.  Don't bother joining Mr. Getbig, go join a gym.  Also, are you gay?  You pose and look very gay.  Also, where do you live?  Are you the infamous Shadow.

dude you're obsessed with me, you go around chasing me on every thread, are you a homo or what? 

[wavelength]

how about I make it easier for you and let you see who gets a better place in MR. Getbig, me or true adonis? 

I'm pretty sure Adonis will approve of that challenge.

However, I would still use the method that works better for me. My advantage is, I have already tried both. But as I said, it's possible that you have an easier time dieting down with yours. If that's the case, I wouldn't change it either if I were you.

Good luck again for the Mr. Getbig, may the best man win!

[wavelength]

My "Adonis Pronciples" diet:

Big Mac, fries, diet coke 2x/day, plus a protein shake or two to meet minimum protein requirements! 

That basically matches P1 and P2. What do you think about the other principles and myths?

[wavelength]

Bump for Answers from:

Donkey Kong: Reply#27,
McFarland: Reply#137,
Deicide: Reply#141,
True Adonis: Reply#249,
Goatboy: Reply#265.

[The True Adonis]

Maybe Adonis can weigh in here, since he already has experience with the principles in contest mode. Do we have to change anything to get from let's say 8% to 5%?

As long as you are in a deficit, length of time should eventually take care of it so little adjusting will be necessary.  With that said, the approach that I lay out here should account for any adjustment in order to get to super low bodyfat:

I would start with 12-14 per current Bodyweight,  and run it straight through.  Obviously the longer adherence the greater the result. The ABSOLUTE lowest to go with calories should be 9 calories per bodyweight.  Keep in mind that you should not at all have to go this low.  Patience is a big factor in this.  Most people think they have hit a sticking point, when in fact it is not the case at all.  Running 11-12 all the way through should be sufficient to get EXTREMELY ripped.

Also, every 1-2 months or so, adjust your figures to reflect your current bodyweight.   So for example, if I weigh 180 lbs from the start I would then be eating about 2160. 2 months later, lets say I weigh 170 so lets adjust it to 2040.

You may not have to adjust it at all if you are progressing just fine.  Play it be body and sight.


I also have a few other little tricks I shall post about.  Common sense things really, but little tricks to go deeper into a deficit without sacrificing hunger or muscle for that matter.

[ASJChaotic]

As long as you are in a deficit, length of time should eventually take care of it so little adjusting will be necessary.  With that said, the approach that I lay out here should account for any adjustment in order to get to super low bodyfat:

I would start with 12-14 per current Bodyweight,  and run it straight through.  Obviously the longer adherence the greater the result. The ABSOLUTE lowest to go with calories should be 9 calories per bodyweight.  Keep in mind that you should not at all have to go this low.  Patience is a big factor in this.  Most people think they have hit a sticking point, when in fact it is not the case at all.  Running 11-12 all the way through should be sufficient to get EXTREMELY ripped.

Also, every 1-2 months or so, adjust your figures to reflect your current bodyweight.   So for example, if I weigh 180 lbs from the start I would then be eating about 2160. 2 months later, lets say I weigh 170 so lets adjust it to 2040.

You may not have to adjust it at all if you are progressing just fine.  Play it be body and sight.


I also have a few other little tricks I shall post about.  Common sense things really, but little tricks to go deeper into a deficit without sacrificing hunger or muscle for that matter.

Adonis your principles don't account for the slowing down of metabolism because of the decreased amount of food consumption
fat loss plateaus
OR
the starvation response 

[The True Adonis]

Adonis your principles don't account for the slowing down of metabolism because of the decreased amount of food consumption
fat loss plateaus
OR
the starvation response 

Hence you have just mentioned 3 myths.

1. Decreased Metabolism
2. fat loss plateau
3. Starvation response.

Especially number 3.

Eating 2000 or so calories a day is hardly starving.

[ASJChaotic]

Hence you have just mentioned 3 myths.

1. Decreased Metabolism
2. fat loss plateau
3. Starvation response.

Especially number 3.

Eating 2000 or so calories a day is hardly starving.

1) when you eat less your body burns less calories and not only due to thermic effect of food. The bigger the calorie drop is and
the longer it is maintained the bigger the drop in metabolism will be
2) fat loss plateaus are pretty real, ask the guys who are stuck at losing those last 10 pounds of fat to get ripped and month after
month they can't despite diet and cardio
3) the starvation response is no myth, when people don't eat enough food, their body starts so save calories taken in as fat, decreasing metabolism drastically, and giving up muscle mass instead of fat, thus a person is left with a more poor body composition than when they first
started and a higher bodyfat%, this explains why people can't get sixpack abs starving themselves

but you're right for an average person 2000 calories would not be starving, for me it would be since I eat 4200 calories everyday just to maintain my weight

[wavelength]

As long as you are in a deficit, length of time should eventually take care of it so little adjusting will be necessary.  With that said, the approach that I lay out here should account for any adjustment in order to get to super low bodyfat:

I would start with 12-14 per current Bodyweight,  and run it straight through.  Obviously the longer adherence the greater the result. The ABSOLUTE lowest to go with calories should be 9 calories per bodyweight.  Keep in mind that you should not at all have to go this low.  Patience is a big factor in this.  Most people think they have hit a sticking point, when in fact it is not the case at all.  Running 11-12 all the way through should be sufficient to get EXTREMELY ripped.

Also, every 1-2 months or so, adjust your figures to reflect your current bodyweight.   So for example, if I weigh 180 lbs from the start I would then be eating about 2160. 2 months later, lets say I weigh 170 so lets adjust it to 2040.

You may not have to adjust it at all if you are progressing just fine.  Play it be body and sight.


I also have a few other little tricks I shall post about.  Common sense things really, but little tricks to go deeper into a deficit without sacrificing hunger or muscle for that matter.

Currently I'm taking in aprox. 13kcals / lb BW over the course of one week. This already includes the one day a week I eat as much as I want, which accounts for twice of what I eat at a normal day. So on a normal day I eat about 12, on the "load" day I eat about 23. I'm not sure if the load days are necessary or beneficial. I basically do it out of convenience (going out with friends, parties, e.g.), to piss off my friends, and because I'm a pig and need to stuff myself once a week.

Do you think loading days are beneficial?

[The True Adonis]

Currently I'm taking in aprox. 13kcals / lb BW over the course of one week. This already includes the one day a week I eat as much as I want, which accounts for twice of what I eat at a normal day. So on a normal day I eat about 12, on the "load" day I eat about 23. I'm not sure if the load days are necessary or beneficial. I basically do it out of convenience (going out with friends, parties, e.g.), to piss off my friends, and because I'm a pig and need to stuff myself once a week.

Do you think loading days are beneficial?

Since your calories even out in the long term I would say it has no benefit as far as how you look.  Surely it is satisfying and it does have a great psychological benefit! You may also feel more "energized" on those days.

There is evidence of short term release of certain hormones also. 

However, in the long term, it shouldn`t matter too much.  Both approaches are sound.

[wavelength]

Thanks TA! For all the illiterates, I have made a picture that says it all.

[ASJChaotic]

Thanks TA! For all the illiterates, I have made a picture that says it all.

ok that's retarded
why are you guys against cardio so much? 
two ways to lose fat
eat less
move more
the more cardio you do, the more fat you will lose, if you get your calorie deficit in your diet right
and because people are too LAZY and don't want to do cardio doesn't mean that it doesn't work 

[bodybuilder1234]

Wouldn't the cardio frequency/duration depend on how much muscle you currently have?
I've always assumed the more muscle mass you have the less cardio you have to do, simply because the muscle is churning off the calories you eat to maintain itself.

[bodybuilder1234]

So essentially if you have alot of muscle to begin with you won't need much cardio to burn the bodyfat. Just workout and do your full-time job (provided you have one, this is Getbig)

[ASJChaotic]

So essentially if you have alot of muscle to begin with you won't need much cardio to burn the bodyfat. Just workout and do your full-time job (provided you have one, this is Getbig)

I need to see some studies on this
I doubt 1 pound of muscle burns 69 calories as Milos Sarcev claims
muscle doesn't burn calories until you start using it....by MOVING 

[wavelength]

ok that's retarded
why are you guys against cardio so much? 
two ways to lose fat
eat less
move more
the more cardio you do, the more fat you will lose, if you get your calorie deficit in your diet right
and because people are too LAZY and don't want to do cardio doesn't mean that it doesn't work 

Just look at the hamster and see yourself.

[wavelength]

So essentially if you have alot of muscle to begin with you won't need much cardio to burn the bodyfat. Just workout and do your full-time job (provided you have one, this is Getbig)

Exactly my point. That should be enough to provide the positive effects assigned to cardio (other than calorie burning during the cardio, which can easily be accommodated by just eating a little less).

[wavelength]

Since it's pig out day, this is what I'm eating right now for lunch.
Wiener Schnitzel baby, if it fits the plate ... Queer!

[mazrim]

Do you keep your cals constant on off-days or lower them?

[wavelength]

Do you keep your cals constant on off-days or lower them?

You mean lower the cals of my pig-out days in the course of the cutting diet?

I honestly don't know. I just eat as much as I like. I think it automatically went down somewhat during the diet. It's about 2 times of what I eat during the week.

[ASJChaotic]

Since it's pig out day, this is what I'm eating right now for lunch.
Wiener Schnitzel baby, if it fits the plate ... Queer!

dude you still have your salad? 
I diet on brownies lol, having some chocolate right now
and 4 weeks out of the Mr. Getbig I was 13% bodyfat AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA   ......

[wavelength]

dude you still have your salad? 

Of course, it's supposed to be a healthy diet.

I diet on brownies lol, having some chocolate right now
and 4 weeks out of the Mr. Getbig I was 13% bodyfat AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA   ......

Haha, those brownies were good!
Although I had a hard time downing them after that deep fried fucker and the taters.

What's your BF right now? How many pounds to lose?