back routine

[sculpture]

Typically my back routine used to consist of a pullup movement, bent over row, deadlift and pullover but after years of stubbornly performing rows and seeing little results (regardless of which type used) i ve decided to drop them. Hey if they dont work for you why do them right?

Anyway will the following routine suffice?

pullups 3 x 8-10
deadlifts 5 x 5
hammer chins 3 sets 8 12
barbell pullover 3 sets 8 -12

[QuakerOats]

if rows aren't working for you you're probably doing them wrong.

[nodeal]

honestly i dont see how rows couldnt work for you as it is the most basic back exercise. maybe you just did them too much? wouldnt hurt to take a break from them, but i wouldnt drop them all together.

also, one thing i started doing was doing deadlifts at the end of my workout rather than towards the beginning. my back is tired at the end of my workout so i use less weight and therefore, in my opinion, less chance of an injury. eh.

also i dont see the need to do pullups and pullovers in the same workout, seems like overkill, but eh that might just be me.

[sculpture]

I know its goin against convention and i ll probably regret it down the line but i see such great results from various chins and pullover movements that i d rather focus on them. I remember tom prince once saying if you can get a back like ronnie coleman just doin chins then more power to you. Fair enough, i m not goin to get a back like that but you get the point!

[sculpture]

honestly i dont see how rows couldnt work for you as it is the most basic back exercise. maybe you just did them too much? wouldnt hurt to take a break from them, but i wouldnt drop them all together.

also, one thing i started doing was doing deadlifts at the end of my workout rather than towards the beginning. my back is tired at the end of my workout so i use less weight and therefore, in my opinion, less chance of an injury. eh.

also i dont see the need to do pullups and pullovers in the same workout, seems like overkill, but eh that might just be me.

Yates did squats for years never seeing great results and theyre the prototypical mass exercise!

[flexingtonsteele]

if rows aren't working for you you're probably doing them wrong.

very true, lower the weight, get your form right, feel the muscle working and keep the rows in there, cos in the long run they'll put some mass on you.

[nodeal]

Yates did squats for years never seeing great results and theyre the prototypical mass exercise!

yeah, i guess. but speaking in terms of the general bodybuilding population...give rows a rest before you decide to dump them all together. rowing is the most basic and functional movement to develop your back muscles.

although i guess maybe it is possible that rows dont do anything for some people.... but then again i find it hard to believe that squats or rows serve some people no purpose at all. i think both exercises should be incorporated at least once in a while in your routine.

[Bluto]

bent over row is just one rowing excercise there's plenty of variations.

[CalvinH]

Even though I suck at them I've always considered pullups a given.

So I do pullups then 4 more exercises.

[mass 04]

I don't lift weights, but if i did i would do 2 "width" movements 2 "thickness" movements then tie it all together with some sort of deadlift.

[sculpture]

I don't lift weights, but if i did i would do 2 "width" movements 2 "thickness" movements then tie it all together with some sort of deadlift.

I think the whole "width and thickness" is bullshit to be honest.

Chins will add width AND thickness just like rows will also.

Adding resistance, making the back stronger will cause a increase in size in both those qualities.

Yates did a set of underhand pulldowns and one of pullovers and that was it and his back was a wide as anyones yet you never saw him spouting how "wide grip pulldowns and chins" are essential in adding width.

Goes back to an older point - everone is different, its about finding what works best for YOU.

[mass 04]

I think the whole "width and thickness" is bullshit to be honest.

Chins will add width AND thickness just like rows will also.

Adding resistance, making the back stronger will cause a increase in size in both those qualities.

Yates did a set of underhand pulldowns and one of pullovers and that was it and his back was a wide as anyones yet you never saw him spouting how "wide grip pulldowns and chins" are essential in adding width.

Goes back to an older point - everone is different, its about finding what works best for YOU.

I agree 100% that is why i put them in quotations.

[tbombz]

My favorite back routine would be something like this...


Deadlifts 4 to 6 sets. 

T bar rows 4 to 6 sets.

One arm dumbell rows 4 to 6 sets.

Pullups/Pulldowns 4 to 6 sets.

Pullovers 2 to 4 sets. (pump sets. )


Last set on all but pullovers would be as heavy as I can do with good form for about 5 to 7 reps.

[pumpster]

I know its goin against convention and i ll probably regret it down the line but i see such great results from various chins and pullover movements that i d rather focus on them. I remember tom prince once saying if you can get a back like ronnie coleman just doin chins then more power to you. Fair enough, i m not goin to get a back like that but you get the point!

I agree with you, however i think it's worth just 2-3 sets of some type of rows even if it's not every workout, as they hit different areas of the back including more of the middle of the back. Try different variations of rows than what you're currently doing or have done, and include different grip widths and grips to find something that's more effective.

As an example, "according to the book" barbell rows are a classic that i found fairly useless, then after a long time wasted I found other versions like T-bars, hammer rows and lying rows that were alot more effective and also were easier on the back.

As far as deadlifts, to me that should be done after upper back work as it's not the same area.

think the whole "width and thickness" is bullshit to be honest.

Chins will add width AND thickness just like rows will also.

Agreed, but each movement hits different angles so it's still worth including a few sets even if infrequently. Rows hit the middle back more, to me so for more complete development try different versions. Don't go by the book-years ago i found the same thing as you've mentioned, that close and medium grip are actually better.

[Royalty]

I was burned out on free weight rows for a while too. So I switched over to Hammer machine High rows and Hammer low rows for a while. I also did pulley rows. My back responded well.


But....Today I re-introduced free weights back into my workout



Barbell Rows
Weighted Pull Ups
One Arm Dumbell Rows
TBar Corner Rows



MY GOSH. Crazy pump. Free weights are back and here to stay


(from time to time I will have phase where I just do various Hammer Rows, Cybex Rows, Icarian Rows and Pulley Rows to stay metally fresh and to avoid burn out)

[GoneAway]

Just pulling your arms back in a rowing movement isn't necessarily going to work your lats to the fullest.

An actual forcing of the lats to contract and extend will force more fibres to work because you're telling them to. This is the mind-muscle connection and can be developed over time.

[sculpture]

Well its been a few weeks since i originally switched and i must say its goin good.

No "row" cold turkey for me!

Still warming up with 3 sets widegrip pullups then 5 sets 5 deads, 3 sets hammer chins and 3 sets straight barbell pullover

Really feeling it all in the lats and width has defiently increased. I realise rows may hit the "inner" back more but i figure with deads they wedge muscle all teh way up the spine.

[dyslexic]

Start your back workout by stretching the lats. Stretch them slow and easy, but pull them as much as you can tolerate. Sometimes a chinning bar works, but grabbing a stationary handle (maybe on a pulley machine) at waist heighth or higher will help you get the leverage you need to get a good stretch.

Once the lactic acid starts building, you will be better able to identify just exactly where the lats insertion points and origin are. Once you feel like you have that "mind/muscle" thingy goin on, you can start with some one-armed pulley rows (alternate sides) with a light weight. Use high reps so that you get a good pump goin on. Keep going. Once you feel like you are really getting somewhere, go back and stretch again.


When you have truly isolated the lats as much as possible and can feel them working (burning like hell), grab a moderately heavy barbell and start your rowing. If your lats do not start burning like they did during the stretches and the high-rep rows, let me know. I think this will solve the problem.


Chances are you are: 1) Using to heavy a weight, 2) using bad form, 3) not really identifying the lat muscles.


As time goes on, you should be able to use the heavier weights and make the exercise more effective.

[bigbychoice]

I always do dead-lifts from the rack at about knee height first. If I stay light (around 405) and really squeeze at the top my back will be sore for days. Then I move on to pulling movements.

[pumpster]

When you have truly isolated the lats as much as possible and can feel them working (burning like hell), grab a moderately heavy barbell and start your rowing. If your lats do not start burning like they did during the stretches and the high-rep rows, let me know. I think this will solve the problem.

Chances are you are: 1) Using to heavy a weight, 2) using bad form, 3) not really identifying the lat muscles.

No, none of these address the fundamental problem which is that some widely used exercises including BB rows aren't actually that effective for many people. Pre-exhausting lats with other lat exercises first would result in the same burning effect from any number of effective lat exercises that would follow.

Really feeling it all in the lats and width has defiently increased. I realise rows may hit the "inner" back more but i figure with deads they wedge muscle all teh way up the spine.

Evolution to highly effective exercises instead of following the book. The inner back can be hit by many exercises including various forms of pulldowns, chins and rows by using different types of grips and grip widths without even going to deads. Deads are a dangerous exercise, for lower back it's worth considering options such as leaving lower back to indirect exercises like squats, using rack pulls or hypers instead, and keeping reps on lower back work high, 20-30 reps.