back grip

[NoCalBbEr]

hey guys
I'm curious what kind of grip do you use on back exerises deads/bb rows/t bar rows and etc?? I have been using  a False grip aka my thumbs are on the same side of the bar as my other fingers. but I have seen some guys that wrap their thumbs around the bar. b/c of  me moving to a thumbless grip, my wrist are killing and I had to give up on underhand barbell rows. I really feel the underhand more then osverhand. I'm trying to get my lower lats wider.

thanks guy

[thewickedtruth]

grip  everything while wrapping your thumb around it! that's what thumbs are made for unless for some medical reason you can't or it hurts!

Always change your grips too.. neutral, underhand (supinated), overhand (pronated) and everything in between.. when you change your grip, it hits your back differently inessence creating a new movement. Just like chins.. I use a differently grip on every set of chins I do to hit my back from every angle possible. It still works your back.. it just adds more emphasis on certain areas more so than others when you do it.

[QuakerOats]

i use a thumbless grip on everything except db rows. Pulldowns, barbell rows i never wrap my thumbs around, BTW it's almost impossible to use a thumbless grip on REVERSE grip bb rows with anything over 185 or so, just wrap your thumbs around when you do those, use the EZ curl bar as well it's a lot easier on the wrists.

[QuakerOats]

grip  everything while wrapping your thumb around it! that's what thumbs are made for unless for some medical reason you can't or it hurts!

Always change your grips too.. neutral, underhand (supinated), overhand (pronated) and everything in between.. when you change your grip, it hits your back differently inessence creating a new movement. Just like chins.. I use a differently grip on every set of chins I do to hit my back from every angle possible. It still works your back.. it just adds more emphasis on certain areas more so than others when you do it.

you're right to a certain extent, i remember the old Mike Mentzer clip where he had a guy grab his wrist with his thumb on the same side as his fingers and he slipped right out of it but when he had the guy wrap his thumb around he couldn't get out of it.

[tbombz]

For some reason I seem to be able to concentrate more on my muscles and get a better isolation when I use a thumb-less grip. However on my heaviest sets I cant go thumb-less, I must use a wrap around grip to control the weight.

[thewickedtruth]

you're right to a certain extent, i remember the old Mike Mentzer clip where he had a guy grab his wrist with his thumb on the same side as his fingers and he slipped right out of it but when he had the guy wrap his thumb around he couldn't get out of it.

when i think about it.. if i tried a farmers walk with a thumbless grip versus using my thumbs..what kinda outcome would I have? 

[chaos]

My grip depends on the exercise, sometimes it's more comfortable to hold a thumbless grip, cable rows for example as well as pulldowns, I use thumbless, DB/bb rows, I use my thumbs.

[NoCalBbEr]

good discussion and replies guys!!

[burn2live]

I always use thumbs 

[jpm101]

About the only time of would advise a false grip is when doing BB/DB (or even lateral raises in some cases) regular or reverse, curls. Why you would weaken an exercises muscle building potential, when using a heavier weight for DL's, rows, chins or other back exercises, does not seem logical. With a grip (false) that can allow a bar to roll off the fingers or just not be  anchor well by the thumbs, before the full strength of that exercise is taxed, seems strange indeed. You may be just cheating yourself of the full benefit on most exercises. With the natural thumb grip you will have a superior vice grip style on the bar.

If the main plan is to improve the gripping strength, than a thumbless grip can be included in a program, along with regular gripping. Like the fore mentioned Farmers Walk (as suggested by TWT), DL's, chins, etc. With most of those lifts you are just holding (or trying to) the weight in place anyway. Lot of other ways to improve the grip/finger strength also. All this is intended for strongman stuff, not regular BB'ing. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

If it does cause pain use it with straps, which will take much of the pressure off while allowing thumbless. I use straps because the grip does start to go when the weight gets heavy, could care less about grip strength.

For me there's nothing better than neutral palms facing together and slight variations from that for lats. Better lat isolation, very easy to grip, minimal stress for most grip widths.

[QuakerOats]

If it does cause pain use it with straps, which will take much of the pressure off while allowing thumbless. I use straps because the grip does start to go when the weight gets heavy, could care less about grip strength.

For me there's nothing better than neutral palms facing together and slight variations from that for lats. Better lat isolation, very easy to grip, minimal stress for most grip widths.

great advice, that's why i think the EZ curl bar is excellent for barbell rows.

[pumpster]

great advice, that's why i think the EZ curl bar is excellent for barbell rows.

Ya, easier on the wrists and hits the lats extremely well, as opposed to the usual straight bar palms-away from you grip that seems the least effective to me for lats in general for either rows or chins/pulldowns. Triceps hammer bar is also good for rows, allows the neutral palms-in grip.

The different grips are part of why i think T-bars are superior to barbell rows. The other reason is that the different angle on a T-bar shifts the center of gravity and makes it far less harsh on the lower back. It has to be an actual hinged T-bar to get this, not an olympic bar in a corner.

[NoCalBbEr]

the main reason I used the thumbless, I read articles on pros that use a thumbless grip to feel their lats better. Its the "hook method"

[jpm101]

Maybe it's me, but would not it be very hard to keep those wrist straps tight with just a false, thumbless,  grip? Without the important thumb pressure to keep the straps from becoming loose, the straps may be  really no value at all?

That hook method is a old idea. But you need not use a false grip to take full advantage of it. This is where the mind comes into play with that type of exercise. You think and focus on the hands as hooks, doing all the work. Taking most any other muscle groups out of the pulling motion, in your mind.

My personal trouble with an Olympic style EZ bar is  not allowing enough space if wanting to do wide BB rows. Great for curl grip rows or Up-right rows for some people. Getting a cramped feeling, for me anyway, when ever using one. Like me getting into a Ford Focus once. I am really too wide in the upper body for either the EZ bar or Ford Focus. Good Luck.

[QuakerOats]

Maybe it's me, but would not it be very hard to keep those wrist straps tight with just a false, thumbless,  grip? Without the important thumb pressure to keep the straps from becoming loose, the straps may be  really no value at all?

That hook method is a old idea. But you need not use a false grip to take full advantage of it. This is where the mind comes into play with that type of exercise. You think and focus on the hands as hooks, doing all the work. Taking most any other muscle groups out of the pulling motion, in your mind.

My personal trouble with an Olympic style EZ bar is  not allowing enough space if wanting to do wide BB rows. Great for curl grip rows or Up-right rows for some people. Getting a cramped feeling, for me anyway, when ever using one. Like me getting into a Ford Focus once. I am really too wide in the upper body for either the EZ bar or Ford Focus. Good Luck.

are your hands too big to fit into the top of protein containers and are your fingers too big too type as well?

[pumpster]

The straps are tucked under palms so it works either way.

E-Z won't work as well for extremely wide rows, but close and medium grips are often better anyway from my experience. Just as Arthur Jones said in espousing medium grip lat work as more effective, and as most T-bar grips are close or medium. Besides which just how wide does one need to go beyond e-z bar length when gripping collar to collar.

[QuakerOats]

The straps are tucked under palms so it works either way.

E-Z won't work as well for extremely wide rows, but close and medium grips are often better anyway from my experience. Just as Arthur Jones said in espousing medium grip lat work as more effective. Besides which just how wide does one need beyond e-z bar length.

i don't know Pump, JPM must be pretty damn wide, i mean i've seen pics of Lee Preist, Dorian, even Bob Chick using that bar for rows so if he's too wide he must be absolutely gigantic.

[pumpster]

i don't know Pump, JPM must be pretty damn wide, i mean i've seen pics of Lee Preist, Dorian, even Bob Chick using that bar for rows so if he's too wide he must be absolutely gigantic.

I'm thinking it might be Marcus Ruhl all this time and we didn't know.

[jpm101]

I have a voice operated keyboard, so typing is not a problem. Never use protein supplements, so no problem there either.

Some people just have the bad luck of being born tall, large bone and wide framed. It is a curse I must admit. Just think of wide bodied NFL players as an example of nature gone wrong and have the burden of being so much larger at birth than most people.

When I have step between an Olympic EZ bar I am reminded of all the little, narrow and normal size people who really think that EZ bars are cool for their needs. God bless them.

Another curse is buying clothes. But I will not go into that ..it does upset me very much.

If straps are tucked under the palms and that works, than good for you. If you ever attempt anything near a 100lb BB you may have a problem.  Good Luck

Side Bar: we are having a gathering of the local Pacific Islanders this weekend. We will be roasting a pig. But so far have not found one fat enough. Wonder if QuakerQats/SquadFather would like to offer to be the fat pig we need? 

[pumpster]

If straps are tucked under the palms and that works, than good for you. If you ever attempt anything near a 100lb BB you may have a problem.  Good Luck

Have used over 100 lb. with them for decades in fact the whole point is to go heavy with em. You should try using them sometime, you'll see.

When I have step between an Olympic EZ bar I am reminded of all the little, narrow and normal size people who really think that EZ bars are cool for their needs. God bless them.

LOL that a hilarious generalization. Try loading one up for a change and you might think differently.

[QuakerOats]

I have a voice operated keyboard, so typing is not a problem. Never use protein supplements, so no problem there either.

Some people just have the bad luck of being born tall, large bone and wide framed. It is a curse I must admit. Just think of wide bodied NFL players as an example of nature gone wrong and have the burden of being so much larger at birth than most people.

When I have step between an Olympic EZ bar I am reminded of all the little, narrow and normal size people who really think that EZ bars are cool for their needs. God bless them.

Another curse is buying clothes. But I will not go into that ..it does upset me very much.

If straps are tucked under the palms and that works, than good for you. If you ever attempt anything near a 100lb BB you may have a problem.  Good Luck

Side Bar: we are having a gathering of the local Pacific Islanders this weekend. We will be roasting a pig. But so far have not found one fat enough. Wonder if QuakerQats/SquadFather would like to offer to be the fat pig we need? 

yes jpm your 5'11" 235 pound body is FAR TOO HUGE to use a little itty bitty EZ curl bar.

[chaos]

yes jpm your 5'11" 235 pound body is FAR TOO HUGE to use a little itty bitty EZ curl bar.

I'm 6'2" and well over 235 and I can use an EZ curl bar.....

[QuakerOats]

I'm 6'2" and well over 235 and I can use an EZ curl bar.....

i was just being sarcastic about jpm and his whole "i'm too big" bullshit you hear from delusional clowns every so often, too big to fit into normal sized cars, too big for airplane seats, too big for conventional gym equipment, too big for off the rack clothes even XXL or XXXL size, as if they 7'5" and 600 pounds.

[jpm101]

Actually if you re-read my post I said that there is not enough bar to do wider rows (without the elbows hitting the 45's). I did say that an Olympic style EZ bar was great for doing curls and up-right rows.  An EZ bar reminds me of one big DB. Still feel a little wedged in when using one, having long arms and a wide reach.  But than again, just my feel about it. If people want to try collar to collar BB row's on an EZ bar and get great results, than good for them. But it does not meet my personal needs.

I have suggested, in past post, favoring the close to medium curl grip to hit the lat's better. Goes for chins also.  But with any BB row action, experimenting with a narrow, medium and wide grip can be a good idea. Actually doing 2-3 sets of each, when doing BB rows, in a back workout can be rewarding. Can also apply this to the BP for good results.

Personal data: height is a few hash marks above 6'2. And tipping the scales this morning at 240lbs. I was 5'11 in the 9th grade and around 190lbs. Between 265 to 275 at my college playing weight, at 6'2. Any experience lifter may have a hard time picking clothes off the rack. Wal-Mart does not do it for me. (that xxxL stuff is crap). I do fit well in my F-150 truck but not all that well in a Ford Focus. Which is not a normal size car. Not too big for airplane seats, where I usually  get a aisle seat. Can fit in any machine equipment. Best fit was the Nautilus pullover machine by far. Their shoulder machine second (great delt compound exercise).

Side Bar: offer still stands if QuakerOats/SF would like to be our fat pig at the deep pit pig roast this weekend.  You being 5'3 and 330 lbs, that would be ideal for some of our island folks. Fatty white meat with extra hot sauce on it. Don't worry, we can send the bones back to the trailer park if you want.