DID the Surge actually work?

[MuscleMcMannus]

So are you trying to tell me Bush didnt take over the country with our economy in the surplus???

Huh?  The are several factors for the so called good times during the 90's under Clinton.  One of which was the housing bubble that was created that is now bursting.  Another was the collapse of the Asian economies which made foreign investors take their capital out of Asia and invest in the U.S. economy.  Bill Clinton has fuck all to do with the success of the economy back then.  As for Bush as much as I hate the prick he's not single handedly responsible for the downfall of the economy either.  The bubbles you see bursting have been growing for the last 20 years.  America has basically bought the entire world on debt and credit and the repercussions are coming home to roost.  If anything Alan Greenspan is more responsible than President Bush. 

[Option D]

Huh?  The are several factors for the so called good times during the 90's under Clinton.  One of which was the housing bubble that was created that is now bursting.  Another was the collapse of the Asian economies which made foreign investors take their capital out of Asia and invest in the U.S. economy.  Bill Clinton has fuck all to do with the success of the economy back then.  As for Bush as much as I hate the prick he's not single handedly responsible for the downfall of the economy either.  The bubbles you see bursting have been growing for the last 20 years.  America has basically bought the entire world on debt and credit and the repercussions are coming home to roost.  If anything Alan Greenspan is more responsible than President Bush. 

Ok you said that NAFTA passed and that was as bad for the economy as the war. Then why werent we fucked up before bush's first term.


Also ....if bush wouldnt have gotten us into this war, our economy would still be bad?

[George Whorewell]

Oh god, when all else fails blame George Bush. I am so sick and tired of hearing about the glory of the Clinton years. What you fail to realize is that Bush inhereted a disaster. The economy was good under Clinton because of the tech stocks ( which eventually went under), low corporate taxation coupled with little corporate scandal (We now have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, etc. etc. etc. happened), the housing market bubble had not burst yet ( which it inevitably does), 911 didn't happen ( Clinton could have caught Bin Laden during his administration but didn't),Clinton passively allowed Saddam to ignore the UN resolutions his entire term and instead thought starving the Iraqi people with economic sanctions would be a better detterent, Hurricaine Katrina happened, etc. etc. etc.

Bush has not been a good president. But this idea that Clinton was somehow a godsend that did no wrong is absolute nonsense.   

[Dos Equis]

Obama says yes:

“I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,” Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. “I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/04/obama-surge-succeeded-beyond-wildest-dreams/

[Option D]

Oh god, when all else fails blame George Bush. I am so sick and tired of hearing about the glory of the Clinton years. What you fail to realize is that Bush inhereted a disaster. The economy was good under Clinton because of the tech stocks ( which eventually went under), low corporate taxation coupled with little corporate scandal (We now have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, etc. etc. etc. happened), the housing market bubble had not burst yet ( which it inevitably does), 911 didn't happen ( Clinton could have caught Bin Laden during his administration but didn't),Clinton passively allowed Saddam to ignore the UN resolutions his entire term and instead thought starving the Iraqi people with economic sanctions would be a better detterent, Hurricaine Katrina happened, etc. etc. etc.

Bush has not been a good president. But this idea that Clinton was somehow a godsend that did no wrong is absolute nonsense.   

I think that if so much time wasnt given to the blow job shit we could have focused more on bin laden. But I in no way believe that Sadam was/or should have been on the radar, he was not a threat at all. WMD

As far as who does what in office..When Clinton was in office we were good. Now that he isnt, We are bad. Bottom line.

Talking about inhereting a mess. The next president is the one who is going to have to dig us out of the hole that Bush put us in.

[Option D]

Obama says yes:

“I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,” Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. “I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/04/obama-surge-succeeded-beyond-wildest-dreams/

Jesus H. christ, you love the fox news dont you....

[MuscleMcMannus]

Oh god, when all else fails blame George Bush. I am so sick and tired of hearing about the glory of the Clinton years. What you fail to realize is that Bush inhereted a disaster. The economy was good under Clinton because of the tech stocks ( which eventually went under), low corporate taxation coupled with little corporate scandal (We now have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, etc. etc. etc. happened), the housing market bubble had not burst yet ( which it inevitably does), 911 didn't happen ( Clinton could have caught Bin Laden during his administration but didn't),Clinton passively allowed Saddam to ignore the UN resolutions his entire term and instead thought starving the Iraqi people with economic sanctions would be a better detterent, Hurricaine Katrina happened, etc. etc. etc.

Bush has not been a good president. But this idea that Clinton was somehow a godsend that did no wrong is absolute nonsense.   

  Compared to what the citizens pay Corporate America doesn't pay shit in taxes.  And of course we are going to have the highest fucking corporate taxes in the world.  How the fuck do you expect our country to spend more on defense than the next 9 countries put together???  It takes taxes to be a superpower.  Your hypocrisy and irony is to typical and hilarious.  Wah wah whine whine we don't want to pay our corporate taxes but we love all the benefits that comes from insane defense spending and endless wars.  Bush is by no means responsible for the current state of the economy but Alan Greenspan operated for 8 fucking years under Bush and Bush didn't say or do shit about interest rates.  He's as much as responsible for the current disaster as any president of the last 50 years.  Like I said America has bought the entire world on credit and now it's coming back to haunt us.  Bush, Clinton, Greenspan, whoever, they were all responsible.  The dollar is dropping because the U.S. Government's IOU's don't mean shit anymore.  Our entire economy for the last 30 years has been based on debt, regardless of who was in the White House.  

[George Whorewell]

Hey dipshit, all of Europe and Asia has lower corporate taxes because they are trying to encourage more business and commerce, not because they dont spend money on national defense.



As far as the rest of your post goes, I didnt adress whose fault anything is. I only adressed Bill Clinton. Try to actually read what I post next time before you post another nonsensical rant.

[MuscleMcMannus]

I think that if so much time wasnt given to the blow job shit we could have focused more on bin laden. But I in no way believe that Sadam was/or should have been on the radar, he was not a threat at all. WMD

As far as who does what in office..When Clinton was in office we were good. Now that he isnt, We are bad. Bottom line.

Talking about inhereting a mess. The next president is the one who is going to have to dig us out of the hole that Bush put us in.

WE WERE NOT GOOD UNDER CLINTON!  Do you think offshoring jobs and the huge decline in manufacturing happened in the last 8 years?  Dude you are clueless.  Clinton was a fucking joke!  Sad thing is yes he does make Bush look even worse.  Do you even know anything about NAFTA?  It probably single handedly was more responsible for the destruction of the middle class than anything Bush has really done.  

[Hereford]

WE WERE NOT GOOD UNDER CLINTON!  Do you think offshoring jobs and the huge decline in manufacturing happened in the last 8 years?  Dude you are clueless.  Clinton was a fucking joke!  Sad thing is yes he does make Bush look even worse.  Do you even know anything about NAFTA?  It probably single handedly was more responsible for the destruction of the middle class than anything Bush has really done.  

The middle class is still here my man.

Although I agree with your NAFTA viewpoint. What was the benefit to the US and our people in that deal?

[Dos Equis]

Jesus H. christ, you love the fox news dont you....

Nah.  I don't love any news source.  Are you disputing Obama's quote? 

[MuscleMcMannus]

Hey dipshit, all of Europe and Asia has lower corporate taxes because they are trying to encourage more business and commerce, not because they dont spend money on national defense.



As far as the rest of your post goes, I didnt adress whose fault anything is. I only adressed Bill Clinton. Try to actually read what I post next time before you post another nonsensical rant.

Hey dipshit, China which is the biggest economic powerhouse in the world right now has a central bank controlled by the government.  Do you understand the difference between a private FED and a national bank?  Having a national bank you can lend tons of money to your own country's corporations, businesses etc. without interest.  I.e. you're basically just paying interest back to yourself.  Do you understand how the FED works in this country?  Our government is at the mercy of the FED which is actually a bunch of private banks charging interest to our government i.e. the American people.  Hence why we will never pay off the debt or even the interest.  

Of and if you really want to get technical corporations don't pay any taxes.  In fact most corporations pass the the cost of taxes onto the consumer.  So your theory that high tax rates stifles job creation etc. is complete neocon bullshit.  

[George Whorewell]

Thanks for clearing that up for me and adressing the issues I brought up. 

[Option D]

WE WERE NOT GOOD UNDER CLINTON!  Do you think offshoring jobs and the huge decline in manufacturing happened in the last 8 years?  Dude you are clueless.  Clinton was a fucking joke!  Sad thing is yes he does make Bush look even worse.  Do you even know anything about NAFTA?  It probably single handedly was more responsible for the destruction of the middle class than anything Bush has really done.  

Yo check this out. Dont play me chief.

I do know about NAFTA. Personally I do think it initially worked as you can tell by the surge in employment rates during the elementary stages of NAFTA. I do think that outsourcing is a major problem and manufacturing jobs took the biggest hit. But do I think NAFTA is a roaring success No. Nor do I think it is as fucked up as some people. Over all I give it a C...

Now for the War...F-

[MuscleMcMannus]

The middle class is still here my man.

Although I agree with your NAFTA viewpoint. What was the benefit to the US and our people in that deal?

The middle class is disappearing!  The gap between the rich and the poor in America is widening dramatically.  We are becoming a third world banana republic.  Do you know what a banana republic is?  That might be fine for you but America was at its strongest when the middle class was at its strongest.  A strong middle class is necessary to preserve democracy as well.  

[Option D]

Hey dipshit, China which is the biggest economic powerhouse in the world right now has a central bank controlled by the government.  Do you understand the difference between a private FED and a national bank?  Having a national bank you can lend tons of money to your own country's corporations, businesses etc. without interest.  I.e. you're basically just paying interest back to yourself.  Do you understand how the FED works in this country?  Our government is at the mercy of the FED which is actually a bunch of private banks charging interest to our government i.e. the American people.  Hence why we will never pay off the debt or even the interest.  

Of and if you really want to get technical corporations don't pay any taxes.  In fact most corporations pass the the cost of taxes onto the consumer.  So your theory that high tax rates stifles job creation etc. is complete neocon bullshit. 


Spoken for Truth...

[Hereford]

The middle class is disappearing!  The gap between the rich and the poor in America is widening dramatically.  We are becoming a third world banana republic.  Do you know what a banana republic is?  That might be fine for you but America was at its strongest when the middle class was at its strongest.  A strong middle class is necessary to preserve democracy as well.  

Is it possible for you to speak without being a coccksucker? The middle class is still here. Do you know what the middle class is? They are those people who work hard and save and don't sit around worrying about how some neo-con big corporation is conspiring against them.

The middle class is weakening, I agree. However I think it is more because of the inability to manage their finances. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. QUIT DOING BUSINESS ON CREDIT. Both government and private people.

[MuscleMcMannus]

Is it possible for you to speak without being a coccksucker? The middle class is still here. Do you know what the middle class is? They are those people who work hard and save and don't sit around worrying about how some neo-con big corporation is conspiring against them.

The middle class is weakening, I agree. However I think it is more because of the inability to manage their finances. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. QUIT DOING BUSINESS ON CREDIT. Both government and private people.

Haha you don't see the big picture do you?  Why do you think America has had the strongest/greatest economy?  It's BECAUSE WE CONSUME!!!!!!!!  We are a paradox economy.  Why is it so hard for you to realize that?  70% of our economy is based on consumer spending?  Do you understand what that means?  LOL.  You're like every other talking head out there who loves living in excess in America yet expects everyone to save and be frugal.  If that were to happen our economy would be even shittier than it is now.  And the unfortunate thing is it's all based on credit and debt.  Inflation is going up, wages are stagnating and even negative in comparison. 

The middle is are the ones who actually work hard and SPEND money.  Rich people sit back and make money off the middle class' hyperconsumption.  Poor people sit around mooching off everyone.  If the middle class saved more and spent less there rich people would not make their money. 

[240 is Back]

we won't know if the surge was a success until our 146,000 troops and 150,000 private contractors are out of there.

it's that simple.  Just as many of you doucherats were celebrating "mission accomplished" on may 1, 2003.

How'd that one work out for you?

you're celebrating based on vague flimsy benchmarks which still require nearly 300,000 men with guns to keep the fvcking state together.

[Hereford]

Haha you don't see the big picture do you?  Why do you think America has had the strongest/greatest economy?  It's BECAUSE WE CONSUME!!!!!!!!  We are a paradox economy.  Why is it so hard for you to realize that?  70% of our economy is based on consumer spending?  Do you understand what that means?  LOL.  You're like every other talking head out there who loves living in excess in America yet expects everyone to save and be frugal.  If that were to happen our economy would be even shittier than it is now.  And the unfortunate thing is it's all based on credit and debt.  Inflation is going up, wages are stagnating and even negative in comparison. 

The middle is are the ones who actually work hard and SPEND money.  Rich people sit back and make money off the middle class' hyperconsumption.  Poor people sit around mooching off everyone.  If the middle class saved more and spent less there rich people would not make their money. 

What, you think you fuuckin know me and how I deal with finances? Infleation (That means things cost more) is going up in part because people are willing to pay more for things because they can put it on their visa and worry about it 'later'.

Kudos for the 2nd part, sir.

[MuscleMcMannus]

I'm not saying you personally.  I'm saying you expect Americans to be frugal when our entire economy is based on consumption?  LOL Hypocrisy.

[Hereford]

Oh hell... I don't think there is any risk of Americans as a whole saving to any significant level. We have spent more than we have earned for something like 6 straight years now.

Now that I think about it I do agree with you... This economy IS based on consumption. Not sustainable in the long run.

[headhuntersix]

The ONLY reason the surge is working is because of the insane amount of money we are throwing at the problem.  It has nothing to do with a change or progress in military strategy.  The insurgents/Al Sadr are being paid off.  That's about the only thing America's military is good at these days.  Paying off and appeasing the enemy.    

HH6 why would anyone sign up and join a military that supports a corrupt, deceitful, elitist government.  You're just a puppet for the NWO.  

Please stop commenting on the war, u have ZERO idea about whats going on there, none. U are an idiot of epic porportions. We're not paying off Al Sadr, he's cry in his turban in Iran. Yeah we've paid SOL, now we have em either in the army/police or in other jobs. Don't ever comment on what we do, the lowliest private in the army is a better man then u dipshit. 

And I enlisted i  the last year of Bush 1...served all of my enlisted time under Clinton and was commissioned under him as well.

[MCWAY]

I think that if so much time wasnt given to the blow job shit we could have focused more on bin laden. But I in no way believe that Sadam was/or should have been on the radar, he was not a threat at all. WMD

As far as who does what in office..When Clinton was in office we were good. Now that he isnt, We are bad. Bottom line.

Talking about inhereting a mess. The next president is the one who is going to have to dig us out of the hole that Bush put us in.

Had Clinton simply CONFESSED to his adultery, the backlash would have been far less. It’s like a kid who gets in more trouble for lying about what he did, than he would have just for what he did.

Furthermore, if things were so swell under Clinton, Gore should have cruised to an easy win in 2000. Instead, he LOST (not by much; but he lost nonetheless).

[headhuntersix]

Oh man, now the idiots will start the "he was robbed" it was stolen crap.