Bodvar,
I suppose I should link each and every piece of info I post so I'm not at the mercy of google-fu experts such as yourself... but then again, you dismiss a WHO report (WTF?!) so what would be the point.
Not dismissing, questioning, big difference. I don't just accept any piece of information that comes from an official organization, even if it supports my viewpoints.
For example, this WHO lists Cuba as 39th, and we all know via Michael Moore what a paradise Cuba is. But there have been reports coming out refuting this Utopian version of Cuba. For example when Fidel Castro became gravely ill did he depend on a Cuban doctor for treatment? No, he flew in a Spaniard
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-12-25-castro-surgeon_x.htm. Why would he do that if Cuban health care is a model for the world.
Recently pictures have surfaced of REAL Cuban hospitals
http://therealcuba.com/Page10.htm All I'm saying is somebody here is lying, and communists have a long history of lying to the rest of the world.
But I'll give you some pointers so you can do a little more research...
-America HAS the 37th ranked healthcare system (look-up the 2007 WHO Report)
Yeah but Cuba is 39th, I question the methods of the WHO
-America's 6.3 deaths per 1,000 DOES put America in contention with Third World countries
...UN report: 32 countries beat the US (the USA only barely beat Croatia... which was a war zone in the early 90's)
...CIA report: 42 countries beat the US
...add to this the fact that it is generally agreed that US figures are grossly UNDER REPORTED
Your numbers are right but your conclusion is wrong, according the CIA factbook, the the US is number 181 out of 222 countries. The average of the European Union is number 180, do you think that the European Union is on par with a Third World country too?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.htmlThe United Nations Population Division ranks the US as 163rd out of 195
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rateAccording to your logic, Malta, Costa Rica, Poland, Greece, Hungary, Chile, The Faroe Islands, South Korea, and Russia are on par with third world countries. Real Third World countries are countries like Haiti (number 37), which has an infant mortality that is 10 times higher than the US, and Angola (number 1) which has a rate that is 30 times higher.
Who agrees that US figures are under reported? I've never heard of that. Can you back this up at all?
-people are in fact denied treatment in most European countries, but the denial rate is several orders of magnitude lower than it is in the US (and that's among the insured US citizens, the uninsured are denied coverage routinely)
Denied coverage and denied treatment are two very different things. NOBODY is denied treatment in the US, it is illegal. Look at all the illegal immigrants that are abusing the system here to get free treatment.
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/may/10/local/me-uninsure10-if you don't think government-run social services are efficient then doesn't that equate to criticism of your socialized Armed Forces? Are you not supporting the troops?
First of all, that statement is just dumb.
The military is not a social service program, Armed Services are run differently than other government institutions. Mainly because the military is a constitutionally mandated function of the Federal Government. The military has the power to hire and fire it's personnel as they please, there is no military union "protecting" soldiers jobs, like there is with other government workers. I'm not saying the military is perfect, but it is run much differently and more efficiently than other functions of government.
-the life expectancy of Black males is actually 58ish (that might be out of date though). The figure you got (70) was a life expectancy from a medical site... that doesn't factor in the homicide rate, does it?
Yeah it fucking does, life expectancy factors in all causes of mortality. It would be worthless if it didn't. Why would a medical site factor in deaths caused by accidents and not murders? One of the reasons black men live about 6-7 years less than white men is the high homicide rate. Where the fuck did you get the 58 number? The last time black men had a life expectancy of 58 was in 1950
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus07.pdf#022-you contend Americans only pay 1.5 times as much as the French for healthcare per capita... well, you are comparing the wrong figures:
You should factor in not only government funding per capita, but also government spending per capita and also include the per capita PRIVATE spending on insurance premiums, medications, and uninsured health spending... then the figure is actually substantially more than twice what the French pay.
No the figures I was looking at was comparing both private and public spending. Why would anybody do a comparison and leave a huge chunk of health care spending out? That would make the study laughable.
-the 20% tax increase I referred to is a 20% increase in the amount of tax that Americans CURRENTLY spend via taxes on healthcare... NOT a 20% increase in tax, NOT a 20% income tax.
As it stands now Americans pay almost as much healthcare tax as the French do... but then they have to go spend roughly the same amount AGAIN from their own pockets in private insurance premiums in order to be properly covered. (Guess I should have been clearer)
Ok I see what you mean now. Yeah, that figure is probably too low, Americans spend way too much on health care, and health care has become bloated and inefficient, this I agree with you on. I just disagree on the solution, that's all.
That's tantamount to paying 80% of the cost of French-style universal healthcare in taxes and then paying the same amount again to be (almost) fully covered... all the while being terrified of the government offering universal healthcare for the same price the French pay in taxes? Aren't the French getting much better value for money?
That all depends, if your a high income earner in France and you never get sick, your getting fucked in the ass when it comes to health care expenses. If your a low income earner and your always sick, your getting a hell of a deal. I just don't like a system where what you pay in doesn't reflect on the service you get. Like here in American, the more you pay in taxes, the less you use government services, that's bullshit. If I'm going to pay half of my earnings into something, I want my money's worth. Is that so unreasonable?
You see Bodvar, I disagree with your viewpoint because I'm more informed than you are... not because I am uninformed.
I just love that combination of arrogance and ignorance, you must be an Obama supporter
You're starting from the assumption that I'm wrong... then have to go searching for conflicting data. Why not just do lots of research and come around to my viewpoint (reality).
The Luke
Look, in case you haven't noticed I'm familiar with these issues, I'm just backing up my point so you can see that I'm not just making shit up. All I've done is shown that most of your information is blatantly false, and your coming to conclusions based on faulty information. Bad information = bad conclusion.
You seem to be very uninterested about your own statistics, it is very easy to look this stuff up. Your lack of curiosity is puzzling to me. Your mind operates like most leftists: you are the smartest guy in every room, you know the "truth" and everything you say is "reality" no matter what information anybody provides to the contrary. Everybody that disagrees with you is an idiot, and you do not feel the need to back up what your saying because everything you say is automatically true because you are "enlightened".
When you want to find out the truth about anything, you have to take a hypothesis and try to prove it false. You don't make a hypothesis and then look for information to support it, that's really bad science. However, I'm sure your convinced that everything I say is automatically stupid and should be ignored so I doubt you'll give any of this a second thought.