1993 - best ever!

[NarcissisticDeity]

  You already got owned in the truce thread by yours truly in this exact debate, and I can see that you're back for more. Striations and separations correlate with low bodyfat and water levels, but genetics is also a factor. Andreas Munzer had more striations than anyone else onstage, even though the other competitors had as little subcutaneous fat and water as he did. Munzer was at the 93' Olympia and he destroyed Dorian in terms of striations, even though Dorian was at the lowest bodyfat and water levels a Human can go before entering rigor mortis. Riddle me that?

  Irrelevant. The fact that different boybuilders exibit different levels of definition and striations at the same bodyfat indicates that there are other factors besides subcutaneous fat and water responsible for definition and striations. I don't need to actually know what factors these are for my point to stand on solid logic.

  Both play a part. Maybe Dorian's thin skin is responsible for his ultra-hard look - coupled with years of training to failure -, but he had other physiological factors that precluded him from showing lots of striations.

  It depends on how you define conditioning. If you define it as definition and striations, then yes, he did have better conditioning. However, I define conditioning as having low bodyfat and water levels. Why? Because as you get to extremely low bodyfat and water levels, your body will express conditioning in a myriad of different ways. Depending on your genetic and physiological type, you can either become striated like Munzer and Dexter Jackson or acquire that granite look with less striations like Dorian and Branch Warren. So I concede that all of these things are indicators of conditioning: definition, striations and hardness. All Human Beings will express some or the other as they drop their bodyfat and water levels to extremely low levels, but why some show more striations while others show more hardness is down to individual physiology. They all correlate with low bodyfat and water levels, but the correlation is not perfect due to genetic factors.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Neo = owned yet again lol he didn't learn on the truce thread either

[suckmymuscle]

but it would be obvious to  a judge.

think about it.

the Ronnie side relies on cold hard visual evidence - clips, videos , screenshots to show and demonstrate ronnie's clear superiority

  Huckster, for the last fucking time, understand this: the judges wouln't be judging the visual evidence according to your preference. They would be judging it by a criteria that differs from your opinion. That is, the fact that you believe that Ronnie is beating Dorian in the visuals woudn't translate to Ronnie beating Dorian according to the judges. Geez!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NarcissisticDeity]

  Huckster, for the last fucking time, understand this: the judges wouln't be judging the visual evidence according to your preference. They would be judging it by a criteria that differs from your opinion. That is, the fact that you believe that Ronnie is beating Dorian in the visuals woudn't translate to Ronnie beating Dorian according to the judges. Geez!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

after looking at the ' visuals ' he came to the stunning revelation Dorian lost in 1993 to Flex Wheeler and Ronnie has better detail in his calves than Dorian , this kid is an idiot he see what he wants he's in denial he's still posting the photoshopped pics and still claiming they're not what does that tell you?

[BuffD]

I get your point and nice analogy about Haney !!

the whole point is Dorian has NO loose skin that's him the freaking moron reaching for an angle that someone created , he's bound to this stupidity and can;t retract out of fear of being exposed as the complete moron he already is , he went as far as to now claim the lines on the back of Dorian's triceps are loose skin as well LMFAO the kid is retarded

if he has any loose skin it would be clearly evident in this pose and nothing but highly defined razor sharp super dry muscle

I agree that it's not really loose skin.  Every bodybuilder will have it if they don't pose a certain way.  In the shots you posted I guarantee Dorian is rolling his hips forward to it pulls the skin rather than crunching it.  Ronnie has it when he isn't rolling his hips.  

[Mr.1derful]

I agree that it's not really loose skin.  Every bodybuilder will have it if they don't pose a certain way.  In the shots you posted I guarantee Dorian is rolling his hips forward to it pulls the skin rather than crunching it.  Ronnie has it when he isn't rolling his hips.  

Ronnie's issue in the 2003 pic is that not only is he holding water, but also fat.  He is holding monstrous size, but at the considerable cost of conditioning.  In certain poses the added size has impact, but in others, the detriment to his conditioning is extremely evident.  Ronnie was able to get away with this due to there not being any well conditioned big men during the latter part of his career.  I believe he would have had much more impact at a much tighter 270. 

As the years have passed, I believe that everyone has become desensitized to the deteriorating conditioning that has been getting presented, in favor of additional size.  The early-mid nineties were perhaps the zenith of conditioning, and it has been down hill ever since.  The bar has been lowered.  Thus, when Ronnie's dimensions continued to expand, he was applauded and rewarded.  Indeed, he was very hard for his size in 2003, but I feel it incorrect to placate his lack of conditioning just for the sake of extreme size. 

[Hulkster]

The much heralded Ronnie of 2003 looks unbelievably smooth.  He's holding water and fat.  1997 Yates, which is hardly Dorian's best, is still exponentially harder and better conditioned.  Ronnie even has rolls in his lower back in the "relaxed" pose!  Ronnie looks like a giant smooth potato. The fat lady is clearing her throat, Huckster.

oh the irony that you choose a yates pic that has loose skin too.

like I said, the issue is not that dorian has loose skin and ronnie doesnt

the issue is that ND can be shown pics of loose skin on dorian and he pretends it doesn't exist...

he is literally saying that what is shown in front of all of us is not actually there.

it would be the equivelent of showing a picture of a building and ND would insist it doesn't exist and is not really there..

 

[Hulkster]

Huckster, for the last fucking time, understand this: the judges wouln't be judging the visual evidence according to your preference. They would be judging it by a criteria that differs from your opinion. That is, the fact that you believe that Ronnie is beating Dorian in the visuals woudn't translate to Ronnie beating Dorian according to the judges. Geez!

what you fail to realize is that what you claim is simply 'my' preference is not actually my preference at all.

its the preference of the entire bb community.

it is the way the sport is judged, by fans, industry insiders, judges and contest reporters.

its the way the sport works

is why so few people feel dorian was better than ronnie.

sorry, but nice try.

[Mr.1derful]

oh the irony that you choose a yates pic that has loose skin too.

like I said, the issue is not that dorian has loose skin and ronnie doesnt

the issue is that ND can be shown pics of loose skin on dorian and he pretends it doesn't exist...

he is literally saying that what is shown in front of all of us is not actually there.

it would be the equivelent of showing a picture of a building and ND would insist it doesn't exist and is not really there..

 

Realistically,  I'm sure one could find a photo of virtually any bodybuilder in a specific posture where there is the odd crease, despite being very well conditioned.  Being that Dorian was renowned for having thin skin and coming in very dry, it is unlikely that he would have loose skin.  Judging from the abundance of photos, I would assert that the alleged "loose skin", is merely creasing due to the posture of the pose. If skin is truly loose, it won't tighten up, even when flexing. There are many shots of Dorian where no such issues are evident whatsoever.  When considering the various aspects of physique evaluation, it would seem as though Huckster is now really grasping at straws. He has continued to emphasize this "alleged" issue, which is really a non-issue.  In light of how he fixates on a slight creasing of the skin due to posture, then turns a blind eye to things like Ronnie's gyno, he truly lacks any credibility or objectivity.  If that is the best he can come up with, there must not be much to complain about when it comes to Dorian's physique. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

oh the irony that you choose a yates pic that has loose skin too.

like I said, the issue is not that dorian has loose skin and ronnie doesnt

the issue is that ND can be shown pics of loose skin on dorian and he pretends it doesn't exist...

he is literally saying that what is shown in front of all of us is not actually there.

it would be the equivelent of showing a picture of a building and ND would insist it doesn't exist and is not really there..

 

You dope no only are you claiming he has loose skin on his back ( that magically disappears from one pose to the next ) but he also has the same loose skin on both of his triceps

you're a retard period. you're claiming lines are loose skin you're a retard

[Hulkster]

LOL you are calling these "LINES"?

get the fuck out

 

[Hulkster]

ND please don't dodge this question like the pussy coward that you are.

ARE THESE "LINES" on Jay's back, or loose skin?.

answer please.

don't run like always:

[Hulkster]

lol jay and dorian show the same loose skin

it sure as fuck isn't 'lines' LOL

 

[Hulkster]

 loose skin twins that ND claims isn't there 

[NarcissisticDeity]

LOL you are calling these "LINES"?

get the fuck out

 

You're the dope who's claiming he has loose skin not only on his back but also both triceps you're and idiot of the first degree and entertaining your stupidity has run it's course

like your other totally asinine claims that Dorian lost in 1993 and Ronnie has more detailed calves this one is beyond being taken seriously any further , continue with your mega-meltdown

[tbombz]

lol jay and dorian show the same loose skin

it sure as fuck isn't 'lines' LOL

 

jay beating dorian in the rear lat spread lol


dorian even gots loose skin on his triceps

[pumpster]

dorian even gots loose skin on his triceps

LOL no one challenges the keg for the leathery weathered look.

FYI THIS is the keg's TRUE SIDE TRICEPS WHEN THE ARM'S NOT PUSHED AGAINST HIS SIDE.

[Hulkster]

ND your not getting it.

what are the wrinkles of loose skin on all those dorian pics.

what are they? optical illusions? ghosts? munchkins? hobbits?

tell us, because you claim they are not what is shown in the pics.

tell us all LOL

 

[ASJChaotic]

LOL no one challenges the keg for the leathery weathered look.

FYI THIS is the keg's TRUE SIDE TRICEPS WHEN THE ARM'S NOT PUSHED AGAINST HIS SIDE.

Dorian looks like shit 
terribly ugly physique.

[Hulkster]

You're the dope who's claiming he has loose skin not only on his back but also both triceps

as I said before, I am not claiming anything

I am simply showing you what dorian displayed

which was loose skin ala Jay Cutler.

next your going to say that the loose skin was faked LOL

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

as I said before, I am not claiming anything

I am simply showing you what dorian displayed

which was loose skin ala Jay Cutler.

next your going to say that the loose skin was faked LOL

 

bullshit you're claiming he has loose skin not only on his lower back but BOTH triceps as well , don't back peddle now kid you committed to this junk 

[NeoSeminole]

where are the unseen pics of Dorian that were suppose to meltdown the Ronnie supporters?

[NarcissisticDeity]

where are the unseen pics of Dorian that were suppose to meltdown the Ronnie supporters?

It hasn't even been posted and look at the Uber meltdown from Hulkster lol

the pic wont change nothing you guys are ignorant anyway , pics of Dorian from the 93 photoshoot you and Hulkster posted pics of the Pillsbury Dough boy so it wont mean much to biased people

[NeoSeminole]

It hasn't even been posted and look at the Uber meltdown from Hulkster lol

c'mon, you have to admit it was funny to scroll down and find a whole page of the same pic.

the pic wont change nothing you guys are ignorant anyway , pics of Dorian from the 93 photoshoot you and Hulkster posted pics of the Pillsbury Dough boy so it wont mean much to biased people

I'm not bias. Ronnie isn't even my fav. bodybuilder and I tried to pose like Dorian in the front lat spread at last year's Mr. Getbig contest as a tribute to him. Regardless of what you may think, I admire the guy and like his physique. I just post funny shit b/c people take this discussion too seriously.

[suckmymuscle]

what you fail to realize is that what you claim is simply 'my' preference is not actually my preference at all.

its the preference of the entire bb community.

it is the way the sport is judged, by fans, industry insiders, judges and contest reporters.

its the way the sport works

is why so few people feel dorian was better than ronnie.

sorry, but nice try.

  For startrs, this is not true. There are polls where Dorian is beating Ronnie as to who is the greatest ever. Secondly, even if this were true, it woldn't mean shit. Why? Because the "bodybuilding community" doesen't judge contests, you fucking moron.

  The only way to decide who wins in a hypothetical battle between Dorian and Ronnie both at their bests would be to pitch them in a sanctioned contest from a bodybuilding federation. Each and every single bodybuilding contest ever was judged by a small panel of judges that follow rules, and not by popular vote. This is not American Idol, or America's Next Top Model. Since the I.F.B.B is the World's most important bodybuilding federation, and since both men won that federation's premiere title, then it is appropriate for our hypothetical matchup between both at their bests to be held according to the criteria used tom judge competitors at the Mr.Olympia.

  And you are lying through your teeth when you claim that judges have said that Ronnie at his best wod beat Dorian at his best. Where has an I.F.B.B judge said that? The only I.F.B.B Pro Division judge that has spoken especifically on the Dorian vs Ronnie debate has been Dorian himself, and he said that it would be very close because Ronnie would be carrying 15 lbs of lean mass more but he would have superior symmetry and conditioning. Dorian finally said that it "would be up to the judges". So once again, we are back to square zero.

SUCKMYMUSCLE