Author Topic: Bodybuilding Methods  (Read 5797 times)

wavelength

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Bodybuilding Methods
« on: September 24, 2008, 12:38:08 PM »
Since there have been quite a few threads on the effectiveness of certain bodybuilding methods, I have written a small article as a basis for further discussions:

How can we determine if a certain method works for the purpose of bodybuilding? First we have to define what the purpose of bodybuilding is. There are two main operations in bodybuilding, called "bulk" and "cut", which can be defined as follows:

Bulk: gaining body weight at a certain rate [W = pounds gained / week] with a certain ratio of muscle vs. fat [R = pounds muscle / pounds fat] gained at the end of the bulk.

Cut: losing body weight at a certain rate [W = pounds lost / week] with a certain ratio of fat vs. muscle [R = pounds fat / pounds muscle] lost at the end of the cut.

The goal of a bulk or a cut is to maximize R. Bodybuilders use certain methods during a bulk or a cut to reach that goal. The common methods can be grouped as follows:

M1: Physical training (aerobic, anaerobic, stretching, etc.)
M2: Physical rest (sleep in particular)
M3: Mental training (visualization, meditation, etc.)
M4: Nutritional composition and supplements
M5: Nutritional timing
M6: Drugs (Hormones / Pro-Hormones / Anabolic Steroids, etc.)

The question is: What are legitimate procedures to determine if a method works or not? IMO, there is only one group of procedures which fit that purpose, the objective emperical scientific procedures, e.g. using double blind placebo studies on a representative number of people. However, since these studies are very expensive and rarely performed in a serious way, IMO a much easier procedure is sufficient if the outcome is that a certain method does not work at all. This emperical method is described in P1-P3:

P1: Emperical procedure for individual effectiveness:
To find out if a method works for a certain person, this individual must repeat a bulk or a cut two times in a row, each time using the exact same M1-M6 except for the method he wants to test. W should also be kept the same for both tries. The person could e.g. perform a cut with a certain supplement and write down R1, then a bulk and then the exact same cut but without the supplement and write down R2. The enhancement factor of the method can be calculated as E = (R1 - R2) / R2. If e.g. R1 = 5 (meaning that for 5lbs of fat loss, 1lb of muscle was lost) and R2 = 4, E would be 25%. For a bulk, the formula is the same. If e.g. R1 = 3 (meaning that for 3lbs of muscle, 1lb of fat was gained) and R2 = 2, E would be 50%. If a certain method even decreases the effectiveness of a bulk or cut, E would be negative.

P2: Emperical procedure for general effectiveness:
To find out how good a certain method works for a wide range of people, P1 must be performed on a representative number of people, e.g. 100 individuals. Then the average enhancement factor as well as the enhancement variance (probability of applicability for a certain individual) can be calculated.

P3: Changing a group of methods from one emperical experiment to another with the result E = 0:
If one uses P1 or P2 to find out if a whole group of methods work or not, and he determines E = 0 (and we can assume that none of the tested methods in the group has negative effects) the procedure was successful in determining that none of the methods in the group work. I have e.g. eliminated a bunch of supplements in my current diet and since E = 0, all the supplements are ineffective.

As mentioned before, the calculated E might not be an accurate figure if it is unequal to zero. However, as long as the result is zero, and the variance is small in case of P2, the difference to an objective emperical study should not be significant. In contrast, the following procedures are completely useless for determining if a method works or not:

P4: Changing a group of methods from one emperical experiment to another with the result E > 0:
If one uses P1 or P2 to find out if a whole group of methods work or not, and he determines a difference (E > 0), this does not say anything about the effectiveness of a certain method within that group, since we don't know which of the methods has which share of the enhancement. Many exercise equipment companies e.g. claim that their products are effective for losing fat but only in combination with a proper diet.

P5: Theoretical nutritional or training science:
In its current state, both nutritional and training sciences have shown to be virtually useless for determining the effectiveness of a bodybuilding method:
1.) For each method you will find scientific articles supporting the method and ones opposing the method.
2.) Theories in these fields change every year.
3.) There are too many interwoven and partly unknown factors to what is claimed to be sufficiently examined.
4.) Scientific theories can easily be bent into BS statements like e.g. "25.6% increase in muscle fiber activation".

P6: Taking into account factors other than the ratio R defined above:
The following statements have absolutely nothing to do with the effectiveness of a bodybuilding method:
"I feel a lot better",
"I definitely feel the difference",
"I am a lot stronger",
"I recuperate better",
"I get a better pump",
"I can train harder",
"My meatbolism went through the roof",
"I am more focused in my training", etc.

The problem is that most bodybuilding methods are legitimated only by P4-P6, and thus must be assumed to be completely useless. This includes many specific training and mental methods (M1 & M3) and almost all nutritional methods including supplements (M4 & M5). The set of remaining methods in M1-M5, which are emperically proven through P1-P3, can easily be summarized in a few simple principles (e.g. http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=232398.0). The only other methods that have been proven to work are drugs (M6).

Discuss.

QuakerOats

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2008, 12:40:28 PM »
you're overthinking things man.

wavelength

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2008, 12:49:51 PM »
you're overthinking things man.

Quite the contrary. Just trying to debunk the myths. Unfortunally, to expose the lies and gibberish of supplement companies and bodybuilding "gurus", we need to be a little specific. The outcome of my article is the simplest method of bodybuilding possible, see end of article.

Marty Champions

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2008, 12:53:25 PM »
A

dan18

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2008, 12:54:57 PM »
Quite the contrary. Just trying to debunk the myths. Unfortunally, to expose the lies and gibberish of supplement companies and bodybuilding "gurus", we need to be a little specific. The outcome of my article is the simplest method of bodybuilding possible, see end of article.
anyone whos been training 10 years or more should know this shit,its the young dumb kids that dont know any better..
p

QuakerOats

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2008, 12:56:23 PM »
johnny falcon is the bodybuilding master, check out the ungodly huge ripped muscle mass on this guy. ;D

Marty Champions

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2008, 12:59:11 PM »
Johnny Falcon is my master, check out the godly huge  on this guy. ;D
A

wavelength

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2008, 01:01:05 PM »
anyone whos been training 10 years or more should know this shit,its the young dumb kids that dont know any better..

I agree that kids must be protected from being forced to eat tasteless shit and rat poison.
I disagree with the notion that training experience necessarily makes you smart.

dan18

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2008, 01:06:09 PM »
johnny falcon is the bodybuilding master, check out the ungodly huge ripped muscle mass on this guy. ;D
AHHAAA LOOKS LIKE A YOUNG G4P BOTTOM BITCH TRYING TO HELP MOM PAY OFF THE TRAILOR NOTE
p

wavelength

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2008, 01:08:23 PM »
How's the prep for Getbig III going, Johnny?

England_1

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2008, 01:12:33 PM »
you're overthinking things man.

Yeah, usually the KISS principle applies. But there's nothing wrong with thinking for yourself and thinking outside the box. You know what, I just described Dorian Yates....a guy who made some pretty good accomplishments going against the grain and analyzing every aspect of his regimen.
Team Yates

dan18

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2008, 01:18:45 PM »
I agree that kids must be protected from being forced to eat tasteless shit and rat poison.
I disagree with the notion that training experience necessarily makes you smart.
Then youre an ''idiot'' after that many years even less you should know what youre body needs food and training wise.UNLESS youre one of the many who follows muscle mag advice ::)
p

Marty Champions

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2008, 01:21:34 PM »
How's the prep for Getbig III going, Johnny?

currently trying to outgay that muscle freak Quaker Oats
A

wavelength

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2008, 01:25:57 PM »
Then youre an ''idiot'' after that many years even less you should know what youre body needs food and training wise.UNLESS youre one of the many who follows muscle mag advice ::)

I'm always willing to learn and accept new methods, I don't think that makes one an idiot.
But they would have to withstand the emperical tests I have layed out.

wavelength

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2008, 01:28:19 PM »
Yeah, usually the KISS principle applies. But there's nothing wrong with thinking for yourself and thinking outside the box. You know what, I just described Dorian Yates....a guy who made some pretty good accomplishments going against the grain and analyzing every aspect of his regimen.

The conclusion of my article is the KISS principle.

McFarland

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2008, 01:30:01 PM »
Has anyone utilizing the Adonis principles ever won a bodybuilding show?

wavelength

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2008, 01:39:32 PM »
Has anyone utilizing the Adonis principles ever won a bodybuilding show?

Has anyone ever seriously tried and failed?

Further, see M6. I can't speak for Adonis, but I have no experience with it.
I can only say that my appliance of P1 resp. P3 on M1-M5 has shown that the aforementioned principles hold true.

McFarland

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2008, 01:47:43 PM »
Has anyone ever seriously tried and failed?

Further, see M6. I can't speak for Adonis, but I have no experience with it.
I can only say that my appliance of P1 resp. P3 on M1-M5 has shown that the aforementioned principles hold true.

Gotcha.   

BroadStreetBruiser

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2008, 01:51:31 PM »
Am I the only normal dude who talks to Adam? Fuck, I wouldn't type all that shit out.

wavelength

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2008, 01:51:42 PM »
Gotcha.

Great, so now that you agree 100% with the Adonis principles, you could be our guinea pig for trying to win a "real" bodybuilding show. ;D

wavelength

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2008, 01:54:25 PM »
Am I the only normal dude who talks to Adam? Fuck, I wouldn't type all that shit out.

Haha, it's longish, I agree. But it debunks all bodybuilding myths at once, so what do you expect? :D

marcus

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2008, 02:05:00 AM »
 :D

Jeffro

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2008, 02:07:49 AM »
:D
Great progression.  Truly inspirational.

marcus

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2008, 02:09:20 AM »
Celltech is just that powerful.

webcake

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Re: Bodybuilding Methods
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2008, 02:14:10 AM »
Celltech is just that powerful.

He was actually using the mass-stack.

Kid was gutsy using that shit, but it paid off for him.
No doubt about it...