T.O. FIRES BACK AT KEYSHAWN JOHNSON

[Earl1972]

nope..key led his team to superbowl..no key=no superbowl..
Nate washgington could be replaced with a rookie..key was instramental in their success

no he did not lead his team to a super bowl, what were his stats that year?  what were his stats in the super bowl?

i know the year before he had ONE touchdown the whole year, he had a lot of yards but if you want to be compared to TO you need touchdowns, TO is 2nd all time

the bucs won the super bowl with a great defense, they picked off nfl mvp rich gannon 5 times and returned a few of them for td's

jon gruden was the raiders coach the year before and during practice leading up to the game he played qb and showed all of gannon's tendencies

the raiders had no chance

i thought i saw it all on getbig, until now

E

[Dos Equis]

What more can Dallas do? They had home-field advantage last year and got bounced by the Giants. I don't see the Cowboys winning the Super Bowl, as they can't seem to get over that hump. Romo has twice made a colossal mistake that has cost them a playoff win. Plus, T.O. gets butterfingers.

As for Keyshawn being lucky, I beg to differ. He was a major part of the offense and was coming off a Pro Bowl year, during that Super Bowl run. The problem was that Keyshawn was the ONLY good receiver on the team. Gruden brought in Joe Jurevicius and Keenan McCardell, and that gave the Bucs a good receiving corps.

Owens is still trying to get what Johnson already has. Underachiever? I don’t think so. Johnson’s numbers are quite comparable to those of Owens. Plus, he forgets that Keyshawn signed with the Panthers mere days after being cut by the Cowboys. He retired after one season with Carolina. To top it all off, when Keyshawn and T.O met in the playoffs (Bucs vs. 49ers, 2002 Divisional round), T.O. was dropping passes left and right. If my memory serves me correctly, Garcia got picked off once or twice, as a result of pass that T.O. let slip through his paws. As long as Keyshawn has that ring, T.O’s mouthing off is absolutely WORTHLESS.

Good points.  Only point I'd disagree with is Johnson being comparable to T.O.  Johnson was a very good possession WR, but didn't get in the endzone enough.  He has 66 TDs vs. 136 for T.O. (and counting).  

I can't stand T.O.  

[ATHEIST]

Key=Has a ring
T.O.= Not going to get a ring (unless he takes a paycut and joins the steelers next year or mid season this year)

 A ring doent have anything to do with the caliber of the player, lots of great players dont have rings..lots of scrubbs do. 

[onlyme]

I agree.


But as long as Keyshawn has a ring to show for his career accomplishments.....he will always have that over T.O.

Earl, how do you think your boys will do against the Jags?

Yea and T.O will have his Hall of Fame ring and history over Keyshawn

[body88]

Yea and T.O will have his Hall of Fame ring and history over Keyshawn

A history marred by acting out, crying, being a team cancer and a suicide attempt.  People will call him a great player, but there will always be the "but".....


He is one of the best, but he also is a total bafoon.

[Earl1972]

He is one of the best, but he also is a total bafoon.

true but he is light years better than keyshawn

E

[body88]

true but he is light years better than keyshawn

E

I know.

[jerseyhurricane]

I thimnk the whole argument shouldn't be who is the better reciever...obviously T.O. is...but the fact that T.O. has no respect for other players who play or have played in the NFL. TO doesn't realize how hard other players have to work to be where they are and that not everybody has his God given talent. TO is the BIGGEST dickhead in profesional sports.

[MCWAY]

no he did not lead his team to a super bowl, what were his stats that year?  what were his stats in the super bowl?

i know the year before he had ONE touchdown the whole year, he had a lot of yards but if you want to be compared to TO you need touchdowns, TO is 2nd all time

the bucs won the super bowl with a great defense, they picked off nfl mvp rich gannon 5 times and returned a few of them for td's

jon gruden was the raiders coach the year before and during practice leading up to the game he played qb and showed all of gannon's tendencies

the raiders had no chance

i thought i saw it all on getbig, until now

E

Let's compare the stats, shall we?

Since both guys hit the NFL in 1996, it’s a simple comparison.

Keyshawn Johnson, 1996-2006:

167 games, 814 catches, 10,571 yards and 64 TDs, 4 seasons of 1,000+ yards (1,088 in 2002)

Terrell Owens, 1996-2006:

158 games, 801 catches, 11,715 yards, 114 TDs, 7 seasons of 1,000+ yards (1,200 yards in 2004)

That's hardly being "light years better"!!!

Good points.  Only point I'd disagree with is Johnson being comparable to T.O.  Johnson was a very good possession WR, but didn't get in the endzone enough.  He has 66 TDs vs. 136 for T.O. (and counting). 

I can't stand T.O. 

As for the TD thing, that has more to do with how the BUCS played ball. T.O had a lot of short-yardage TDs. Anyone who watched the BUCS play KNEW that inside the 5-yard line, the A-Train (Mike Alstott) was getting the ball. Considering that the BUCS won 75-80 percent of the games, when #40 hits the endzone, it's little wonder why Key's numbers are much lower.

Johnson and Owens are quite comparable, as far. But, as mentioned  beforehand, Keyshawn has ONE BIG EDGE on T.O.: A shiny Super Bowl Ring.

Therefore, my statement stands. Until T.O gets a ring, his flap about Keyshawn is indeed WORTHLESS!!!

Yea and T.O will have his Hall of Fame ring and history over Keyshawn

To make it to the Hall of Fame, WITHOUT a Super Bowl ring, you have to have ASTRONOMICAL stats. Great players with rings make the HOF; great players without rings DO NOT!!

[MCWAY]

what facts?

the guy is saying keyshawn is comparable to TO because he has a ring

than so is nate washington hahahahaha

TO is a first ballot hall of famer, keyshawn won't even be considered

you're owned for being so stupid

E

I didn't say that Key is comparable to T.O., just because Key has a ring. I used their NUMBERS, during the 11 years that both men played in the league. Those numbers are quite comparable, with the one major disparity being TD catches. Key's TD catches are going to be FAR LOWER (especially those of the short-yardage variety), playing on a BUCS team using Mike Alstott for most of their short-yardage TDs.

The stats are similar. But, at the end of the day (so far), Keyshawn has a ring; T.O. does not.

[Dos Equis]

Let's compare the stats, shall we?

Since both guys hit the NFL in 1996, it’s a simple comparison.

Keyshawn Johnson, 1996-2006:

167 games, 814 catches, 10,571 yards and 64 TDs, 4 seasons of 1,000+ yards (1,088 in 2002)

Terrell Owens, 1996-2006:

158 games, 801 catches, 11,715 yards, 114 TDs, 7 seasons of 1,000+ yards (1,200 yards in 2004)

That's hardly being "light years better"!!!

As for the TD thing, that has more to do with how the BUCS played ball. T.O had a lot of short-yardage TDs. Anyone who watched the BUCS play KNEW that inside the 5-yard line, the A-Train (Mike Alstott) was getting the ball. Considering that the BUCS won 75-80 percent of the games, when #40 hits the endzone, it's little wonder why Key's numbers are much lower.

Johnson and Owens are quite comparable, as far. But, as mentioned  beforehand, Keyshawn has ONE BIG EDGE on T.O.: A shiny Super Bowl Ring.

Therefore, my statement stands. Until T.O gets a ring, his flap about Keyshawn is indeed WORTHLESS!!!

To make it to the Hall of Fame, WITHOUT a Super Bowl ring, you have to have ASTRONOMICAL stats. Great players with rings make the HOF; great players without rings DO NOT!!

McWay I don't think you can base your analysis solely on Me-Shawn playing in TB.  He played four years in New York, four in TB, two in Dallas, and one in Carolina.  He failed to consistently score on all four teams.  He scored ten TDs in a season once in his career.  The rest of his career he scored eight TDs or less.  You don't see a pattern?   

T.O. scored ten or more TDs seven times in his career.   

[MCWAY]

McWay I don't think you can base your analysis solely on Me-Shawn playing in TB.  He played four years in New York, four in TB, two in Dallas, and one in Carolina.  He failed to consistently score on all four teams.  He scored ten TDs in a season once in his career.  The rest of his career he scored eight TDs or less.  You don't see a pattern?   

T.O. scored ten or more TDs seven times in his career.   

I'm not making my analysis, solely on that. But, his tenure as a BUC played a big role. As mentioned earlier, in 2001, he had lots of yards and made the Pro Bowl. But, that year he got just one TD (the game winner against the Lions). And, it was in a scenario in which the BUCS had to throw. Otherwise, it's business as usual. Get inside the 5, give the ball to Alstott.....TD.

I compared their stats from 1996-2006 and they match up well, with the execption of TDs. You can't argue that T.O.'s stats are phenomenal, without doing the same for Keyshawn. Personally, I don't think either man has such stats. I'd simply label them each as "Great". But, as I said, a great player WITH a Super Bowl ring can make the Hall of Fame; a great player WITHOUT a ring will not.

[MCWAY]

TO's HALL OF FAME career is far from over, saying that keyshawn is comparable to him because he has a ring is ludicrous.

T.O. is still playing because he is STILL searching for a ring. Keyshawn already has his.

what exactly did keyshawn do with tampa that TO hasn't done almost every year since 2000?  tampa won the super bowl with a great defense and a coach that knew exactly what his former team was going to do, i don't think keyshawn made the pro bowl that year but i do know he made it the year before with a whopping one td the whole year, some gamebreaker

You don't have to score a TD to be a gamebreaker. You have to make the big plays (and the little ones), when it counts. In the 2002 NFC title game, Joe Jurevicius had ONE catch. But, it was for 71 yards (actually, it was a 5-yard reception, with 66 yards after the catch). He didn't score; but that changed the entire complexion of that game.

TO is 2nd all time in receiving TD's, the numbers are not comparable and TO having one bad playoff game against keyshawn's team means shit, TO played great in the super bowl with one leg, i didn't even notice keyshawn when the bucs defense and the raiders coach WEARING BUCS GEAR won them the game

Keyshawn moved the chains and made big plays to put the BUCS in scoring position. T.O. dropped passes left and right and his butterfingers are DIRECTLY responsible for at least TWO INTERCEPTIONS charged to Jeff Garcia.

And, he's done the same with the Cowboys. He dropped a TD pass that would have CLINCHED a playoff game for the Cowboys in '06 against Seattle.

Show me a team that fails to get it done in the post-season (on which Owens is a member) and I'll show you T.O. DROPPING PASSES IN CRITICAL SITUATIONS.

He did it in San Fran; He's done it in Dallas. And, lest you forget about his time in Philly. He got sidelined for the last quarter of the season and missed the divisional and NFC title game. He played well in the Super Bowl, but it wasn't enough.

Nobody's doubting what the BUCS defense or BUCS coach Jon Gruden did. But, the BUCS has a similar defense prior to Keyshawn and Gruden arriving. And, if Bill Callahan wasn't smart enough to change up some of his plays, that's his (and the Raiders') problem.

if TO can't mouthoff to keyshawn than i guess he can't mouth off to nate washington and antwann randel el either

E

TO can't mouth off, becuase with the exception of TDs, Keyshawn's numbers are similar to those of TO, during that 11-year-old timespan. And, Key happens to have the one thing T.O does not have, at present.

[Dos Equis]

I'm not making my analysis, solely on that. But, his tenure as a BUC played a big role. As mentioned earlier, in 2001, he had lots of yards and made the Pro Bowl. But, that year he got just one TD (the game winner against the Lions). And, it was in a scenario in which the BUCS had to throw. Otherwise, it's business as usual. Get inside the 5, give the ball to Alstott.....TD.

I compared their stats from 1996-2006 and they match up well, with the execption of TDs. You can't argue that T.O.'s stats are phenomenal, without doing the same for Keyshawn. Personally, I don't think either man has such stats. I'd simply label them each as "Great". But, as I said, a great player WITH a Super Bowl ring can make the Hall of Fame; a great player WITHOUT a ring will not.

I'm reluctant to even continue this, because I don't want it to appear as though I'm defending T.O. (I can't stand him), but that "exception of TDs" is a pretty big exception.  T.O. scored 70 more TDs than Me-Shawn.  That's a night and day difference.  T.O. is second all time in receiving TDs.  Johnson is 47th. 

You can pretty easily say the guy who has scored more receiving TDs than any man except Rice has phenomenal stats.  As much as I don't like him, T.O. is a shoe-in for the HOF.

While it is true that a Super Bowl ring does greatly increase the chances of a good player making the HOF, I will be very surprised if Johnson gets there. 

[MCWAY]

TO's HALL OF FAME career is far from over, saying that keyshawn is comparable to him because he has a ring is ludicrous.

T.O. is still playing because he is STILL searching for a ring. Keyshawn already has his.

what exactly did keyshawn do with tampa that TO hasn't done almost every year since 2000?  tampa won the super bowl with a great defense and a coach that knew exactly what his former team was going to do, i don't think keyshawn made the pro bowl that year but i do know he made it the year before with a whopping one td the whole year, some gamebreaker

You don't have to score a TD to be a gamebreaker. You have to make the big plays (and the little ones), when it counts. In the 2002 NFC title game, Joe Jurevicius had ONE catch. But, it was for 71 yards (actually, it was a 5-yard reception, with 66 yards after the catch). He didn't score; but that changed the entire complexion of that game.

TO is 2nd all time in receiving TD's, the numbers are not comparable and TO having one bad playoff game against keyshawn's team means shit, TO played great in the super bowl with one leg, i didn't even notice keyshawn when the bucs defense and the raiders coach WEARING BUCS GEAR won them the game

Keyshawn moved the chains and made big plays to put the BUCS in scoring position. T.O. dropped passes left and right and his butterfingers are DIRECTLY responsible for at least TWO INTERCEPTIONS charged to Jeff Garcia.

And, he's done the same with the Cowboys. He dropped a TD pass that would have CLINCHED a playoff game for the Cowboys in '06 against Seattle.

Show me a team that fails to get it done in the post-season (on which Owens is a member) and, more often than not, I can show you T.O. DROPPING PASSES IN CRITICAL SITUATIONS.

He did it in San Fran; He's done it in Dallas. And, lest you forget about his time in Philly. He got sidelined for the last quarter of the season and missed the divisional and NFC title game (The Eagles reached that level twice before, without TO). He played well in the Super Bowl, but it wasn't enough.

Nobody's doubting what the BUCS defense or BUCS coach Jon Gruden did. But, the BUCS has a similar defense prior to Keyshawn and Gruden arriving. As mentioned earlier, Gruden made a concerted effort to get other receivers to complement K. Johnson, to improve the BUCS passing game. Besides (with regards to the Super Bowl), if Bill Callahan wasn't smart enough to change up some of his plays, that's his (and the Raiders') problem.

if TO can't mouthoff to keyshawn than i guess he can't mouth off to nate washington and antwann randel el either

E

TO can't mouth off, becuase with the exception of TDs, Keyshawn's numbers are similar to those of TO, during that 11-year-old timespan. And, Key happens to have the one thing T.O does not have, at present.

[MCWAY]

I'm reluctant to even continue this, because I don't want it to appear as though I'm defending T.O. (I can't stand him), but that "exception of TDs" is a pretty big exception.  T.O. scored 70 more TDs than Me-Shawn.  That's a night and day difference.  T.O. is second all time in receiving TDs.  Johnson is 47th. 

You can pretty easily say the guy who has scored more receiving TDs than any man except Rice has phenomenal stats.  As much as I don't like him, T.O. is a shoe-in for the HOF.

While it is true that a Super Bowl ring does greatly increase the chances of a good player making the HOF, I will be very surprised if Johnson gets there. 

I won't be. You make a good point about T.O's TDs putting him in the "phenomenal" category. Quite frankly, that would have to be case for him to make the HOF. Personally, I think both men have the numbers to get into Canton. If neither had rings or both had rings, T.O would definitely have the edge. But, as long as Keyshawn has one and T.O. doesn't, I think Key gets in first, UNLESS T.O. bumps up the "phenomenal" factor.

[Earl1972]

touchdowns are what separate great receivers from average receivers

i'd be willing to bet you are the only one that would consider taking keyshawn over TO, do you work for the detroit lions because they too seem to have problems evaluating wide receivers

TO will go to the hall of fame, i will bet you my life keyshawn will never even be a finalist

this argument is so crazy i'm not going to waste my time on it any further

E

[OzmO]

One thing i would throw in this discussion if it hasn't already been talked about is that Key's ring was more the result of a team effort rather than an individual accomplishment.  

Their stats, while made from being on a team, are more of an individual accomplishments.

I wasn't aware that Keyshawn had stats in catches and yardage that were similar to TO.  But the TD difference is significant.  And I see TO as more of a BIG play receiver than Key was.


PS  I'm not a big fan of either.

[OzmO]

touchdowns are what separate great receivers from average receivers

i'd be willing to bet you are the only one that would consider taking keyshawn over TO, do you work for the detroit lions because they too seem to have problems evaluating wide receivers

TO will go to the hall of fame, i will bet you my life keyshawn will never even be a finalist

this argument is so crazy i'm not going to waste my time on it any further

E

Another way to to look at these 2 is what you kind of said here.

Who would you draft on your Fantasy team first?

Hands down TO.

[STARDOT]

T.O. is still playing because he is STILL searching for a ring. Keyshawn already has his.

TO would be still playing regardless i think. and Key isnt playing cause no one wanted him...at all.

[Dos Equis]

Another way to to look at these 2 is what you kind of said here.

Who would you draft on your Fantasy team first?

Hands down TO.

Well . . . if you hated the Cowboys so much that you refuse to draft them on your FF team, then the answer is Me-Shawn.     I actually owned that terd the year he scored 1 TD. 

[OzmO]

Well . . . if you hated the Cowboys so much that you refuse to draft them on your FF team, then the answer is Me-Shawn.     I actually owned that terd the year he scored 1 TD. 

ouch.   When it comes to FF i have no scruples.  I had TO when he melted down in Philly.   I'd still take him any day of KEyshawn though.

[Dos Equis]

ouch.   When it comes to FF i have no scruples.  I had TO when he melted down in Philly.   I'd still take him any day of KEyshawn though.

I got my scruples.     It would completely take away the enjoyment of the game if I had to cheer for a Cowboy. 

[jerseyhurricane]

T.O. is still playing because he is STILL searching for a ring. Keyshawn already has his.

You don't have to score a TD to be a gamebreaker. You have to make the big plays (and the little ones), when it counts. In the 2002 NFC title game, Joe Jurevicius had ONE catch. But, it was for 71 yards (actually, it was a 5-yard reception, with 66 yards after the catch). He didn't score; but that changed the entire complexion of that game.

Thanks for the bad memories.

[MCWAY]

One thing i would throw in this discussion if it hasn't already been talked about is that Key's ring was more the result of a team effort rather than an individual accomplishment.  

Their stats, while made from being on a team, are more of an individual accomplishments.

I wasn't aware that Keyshawn had stats in catches and yardage that were similar to TO.  But the TD difference is significant.  And I see TO as more of a BIG play receiver than Key was.


PS  I'm not a big fan of either.

Agreed, as far as the big-play receiver goes. Yet, Keyshawn does have the comparable numbers, amazing (in a sense), considering Key spent a third of his career on a team, hardly known for its offensive prowess (Tampa Bay; in fact, the BUCS offense was ranked 24th in 2002, the LOWEST in history for any Super Bowl Champion).

And part of that team effort is coming up with big catches in clutch situations, specifically the playoffs. Owens' most memorable play to me was the game-winning TD in a wild-card game against the Packers, with no time left. Of course, had Owens not dropped the other half-dozen or so passes that were put squarely in his hands, the 49ers wouldn't have been in that mess in the first place.

touchdowns are what separate great receivers from average receivers

i'd be willing to bet you are the only one that would consider taking keyshawn over TO, do you work for the detroit lions because they too seem to have problems evaluating wide receivers

TO will go to the hall of fame, i will bet you my life keyshawn will never even be a finalist

this argument is so crazy i'm not going to waste my time on it any further

E

Average receivers don't make the Pro Bowl and Keyshawn made the Pro Bowl in 2001, despite having just ONE touchdown. T.O. isn't light-years ahead of Keyshawn. And, basically all Keyshawn did is offer some advice and constructive criticism. T.O. did what he does best: blubber and cry when he loses. And, everytime he flies off at the mouth about Keyshawn's accomplishments, all Key has to do is smile and remind him that, in addition to having comparable stats, he has the ONE THING that T.O. does not.........A SUPER BOWL RING!!!!

And, you missed the point. T.O. would have to put up phenomenal numbers to make the HOF without a ring. Keyshawn has great numbers for his career. The gap between the two, as far as making the HOF, goes is closed by that 2002 World Championship on Johnson's resume.