Author Topic: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?  (Read 4714 times)

nodeal

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how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« on: October 01, 2008, 04:58:39 PM »
i dont plan on taking steroids, and i really like lifting big weight. one of my proudest exercises is the squat. i did 345 for 9 reps last week, full reps(think i could have done 10, but pussied out  :-\). anyway, thats pretty good considering i just turned 20 years old. im going for 355 next week.

how much could i expect to squat at my peak as a natural? 405 would be awesome...you guys think there is any hope for that?

Emmortal

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2008, 05:04:16 PM »
Too many factors to give a quantified answer.

buffbong

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2008, 05:24:43 PM »
set a goal and keep trying to acheive it your mind will let you go pretty far. 405 for ten with quality reps would be a awsome goal.  there are a few factors eventually going heavier and heavier. one eventually strength gains will come slower and depends on if you are gaining wieght still. another factor is that you might get a point where you dont think using more and more wieght is productive or nesscary but until then go for it.
i have met some natruals with 600 pound squats but they trained for power.

nodeal

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 07:00:16 PM »
set a goal and keep trying to acheive it your mind will let you go pretty far. 405 for ten with quality reps would be a awsome goal.  there are a few factors eventually going heavier and heavier. one eventually strength gains will come slower and depends on if you are gaining wieght still. another factor is that you might get a point where you dont think using more and more wieght is productive or nesscary but until then go for it.
i have met some natruals with 600 pound squats but they trained for power.

wow, naturals with a 600 pound squat, unreal!

jpm101

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2008, 07:29:03 PM »
NoDeal is already at 405 for a single but he does not realize it yet. Always something about even numbered hundreds like 300, 400, 500 that can set up barriers in most peoples mind. Back in the 1950's a 400lb clean and jerk seems almost impossible until John Davis did it. Now light-heavies are taking that as almost a common weight to handle. Believe a Korean (may be wrong about the country) women, in the last Olympics, C&J'ed a bit over 400.

Do not know NoDeals weight, but quite a few guy's around 180 are squating 400 in regular workouts. He is on his way. If he keeps training with serious intent at age 20, the peak years maybe 10 to 15 years ahead of him. Who can say what a top weight could be for him in later years. Can also apply this to the bench press and DL.

 Not to be critical, or dumping on anybody, just an observation.  Looking at the Training Log board, I have to wonder do some of their regular posters really know how strong they could or should be? They seem serious about lifting, but a few of those workout schemes should be looked at long and hard. And why so much tweaking of sound and tested programs, adding this or taking away that is  beyond my limited mind to understand. Their progress should be at a much higher pace.

Burn2Live is the only one of a few who seems on the right path for some super lifts. If he keeps the steady progress, sore back and all, we might all be reading about him in future training articles in PowerLifting and other magazines. His potential is impressive. TWT is also the man. Good Luck.
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thewickedtruth

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 08:13:35 PM »
Too many factors to give a quantified answer.

That's a good way to put it.. I'm a squat pussy and do a managable mid 500's and have done over 6 while training for it but I feel like I'm just not made to squat. I LOVE to deadlift so I dedicate alot of my time to that. Being a natty you're going to have to find a happy medium that allows you to kick some ass and at the same time recover enough to keep making progress. I'd bust it up like this..squatting twice a week...

week 1day1: assistance work hitting all the necessary shit while putting alot of emphasis on your weaker MUSCLE GROUPS! not your weak points..
day2: Max set of 5

week 2
day 1: assistance work
day 2: heavy doubles

week 3 off week...
day 1: assistance
day 2: GPP and more assistance

week 4
day1: assistance
day2: max set of 5 with chains or bands or a new bar

week 5
day1: assistance
day2: max double with whatever you chose for week 4

week 6
day1: assistance
day2: assistance

rotate.. It allows you to work and recover every third week.


I would get ahold of overload and jason pegg here especially.. both those guys know a shitload and pegg is a MONSTER squatter. Both in the rack and his fatass on the toilet! HAHA  ;D


you're giving me too much credit jpm.. I'm mediocre in the power game.

NODEAL IF YOU LOVE TO SQUAT KICK THAT ASS! ANY NATTY WHO SQUATS FROM HIGH 4'S TO 6'S RIGHT AT OR UNDER 200LBS IS A MONSTER imho.. I say keep at it and at your age of 20, you could be a kickass competitor in a couple years.

jpm101

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2008, 09:09:52 AM »
Did I mention that TWT is humble? Which is a quality much needed and admired on GetBig.
Good Luck.
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iron_dawg

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2008, 09:31:19 AM »
i dont plan on taking steroids, and i really like lifting big weight. one of my proudest exercises is the squat. i did 345 for 9 reps last week, full reps(think i could have done 10, but pussied out  :-\). anyway, thats pretty good considering i just turned 20 years old. im going for 355 next week.

how much could i expect to squat at my peak as a natural? 405 would be awesome...you guys think there is any hope for that?

your only 20 years old also your body hasn't nearly matured yet...I really started getting stronger after the age of 25.  I know everyone is different but you will get there.

nodeal

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 10:45:10 AM »
wow this is really sound and motivating advice! in case anyone was wondering, im very tall (6'4) and i weigh 215 - 220 range. so i guess its not as impressive as someone 180 squatting, but a lot of my weight is due to my height i suppose. numbers in your head really can pose a barrier, i need to break from that. and also, which was previously stated, i need to give my body enough rest time.

i also like that i can look forward to getting stronger as i get older. i really do feel like i still have that "teenage physique", you know? i cant wait to break from that.

benching is a whole other story...i have decent chest development in terms of size, and i am not ashamed of it. but i am ashamed of the weight i bench....225 for 4(at most)  :-\ . i guess thats for a whole other thread though...

The Coach

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 12:13:32 PM »
....502.0038154lbs ;)

Serously thats something no one can answer.

Overload

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2008, 01:35:16 PM »
As JPM mentioned, you are already very close to a 405 squat. if you can squat 315 for 12, you should be very close to a 405 1RM.

It varies person to person, but i would say a 405 squat at around 200BW and a 495 squat at 250BW is very strong for a natural, but there is no limit. i have seen true drug free guys squat well into the 600's.

Some people are just really good squaters, benchers or dead lifters. Pegg is an insane squater, Wicked deadlifts houses and i can bench my fair share of weight. i suck at squating, but benching and deadlifting comes easy for me...

Wicked laid out a good power training layout that would help anyone get a better squat number.

If you care about strength, you might want to try some serious power training for 6 months or so, you might be surprised how strong you really are after you ditch all those high rep sets and focus on strength.

8)

nodeal

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2008, 11:30:46 PM »
As JPM mentioned, you are already very close to a 405 squat. if you can squat 315 for 12, you should be very close to a 405 1RM.

It varies person to person, but i would say a 405 squat at around 200BW and a 495 squat at 250BW is very strong for a natural, but there is no limit. i have seen true drug free guys squat well into the 600's.

Some people are just really good squaters, benchers or dead lifters. Pegg is an insane squater, Wicked deadlifts houses and i can bench my fair share of weight. i suck at squating, but benching and deadlifting comes easy for me...

Wicked laid out a good power training layout that would help anyone get a better squat number.

If you care about strength, you might want to try some serious power training for 6 months or so, you might be surprised how strong you really are after you ditch all those high rep sets and focus on strength.

8)

any particular power routine you prefer? i cycle in power routines every now and then, going for heavy weight on sets, but it only lasts a month or so, and maybe theres more to it then lifting heavy weight that i dont know about?? 6 months sounds like a longg time...i dont know if i could go that long without my higher reps :-\ .

vic86

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2008, 11:58:25 PM »
intresting, but guys does quad and hamstring strength ratio plays important role in squats?can we see some details?

thanks

jpm101

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 08:28:03 AM »
You can throw direct lower back exercises into the mix of important muscle groups that aid squating. The GoodMorning exercise is one example for hitting the lower back and important hamstring muscles.They work well together. A lot of trainee's complain about the lower back giving out during a heavy squating session. Two thing that might improve that is correct squating form and a more powerful lower back. Even hip displacement and foot position can affect discomfort in squating. Perhaps inviting injury, as a single or united cause.

Hamstrings are an import stabilization factor in leg exercises. Most heavy squaters will focus on those at one time or another. Different squating styles can affect the hamstrings more than others. Even regular DL's call into play the hamstrings strongly.

Might consider doing a few sets of serious (not just as a stretching exercise) GM'ings or SLDL. In either case, keep the back as fixed and straight as you can. Try avoiding rounding the back as you bend forward and going to about the 90 degree range or a bit lower. Experiment with different foot widths, like narrow, medium or wide. Notice how the hamstrings feel from these different foot spacings. Hamstrings act as a counter balance to the quads (and other leg muscle groups) and vice versa. Something like bicep's and tricep's do. Can do GM'ing while sitting on a bench/box for direct lower back action. Though the hamstrings are not fully involved.

Seen a few guy's handle 400+ (have heard of much more.....but never seen in person) in very sloppy versions of GM'ing (very wide foot spacing...rounded back).  Seen others handle with-in the 300 to 350 range with respectable form. The lower back is a very powerful area when trained correctly. Lower back training can also help increase strength in DL'ing big time.

Do not need set's of 2's or 3's to increase leg power unless you are going into some serious PL'ing. What has worked for a lot of BB'ers is a rep range anywhere between 6 to 10 reps for strength/size. Trouble is a lot of trainee's , maybe even after years of training , still do not know if the want to be a true BB'er or a PL'er. Some genetic gifted can be good (even outstanding) at both. Most people can not. Good Luck.
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MONSTER_TRICEPS

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 08:50:45 AM »
how much could i expect to squat at my peak as a natural? 405 would be awesome...you guys think there is any hope for that?

A lot. More than 405, it just takes time.

nodeal

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2008, 11:07:02 AM »
you guys are psyching me up...im inspired to go for 365 next time i squat instead of 355. a nice 3 plates and a quarter, should be intense!! im gonna try for the 6-8 rep range. leg day will probably come in a few days, ill let you know how i do!

thewickedtruth

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2008, 11:53:40 AM »
You can throw direct lower back exercises into the mix of important muscle groups that aid squating. The GoodMorning exercise is one example for hitting the lower back and important hamstring muscles.They work well together. A lot of trainee's complain about the lower back giving out during a heavy squating session. Two thing that might improve that is correct squating form and a more powerful lower back. Even hip displacement and foot position can affect discomfort in squating. Perhaps inviting injury, as a single or united cause.

Hamstrings are an import stabilization factor in leg exercises. Most heavy squaters will focus on those at one time or another. Different squating styles can affect the hamstrings more than others. Even regular DL's call into play the hamstrings strongly.

Might consider doing a few sets of serious (not just as a stretching exercise) GM'ings or SLDL. In either case, keep the back as fixed and straight as you can. Try avoiding rounding the back as you bend forward and going to about the 90 degree range or a bit lower. Experiment with different foot widths, like narrow, medium or wide. Notice how the hamstrings feel from these different foot spacings. Hamstrings act as a counter balance to the quads (and other leg muscle groups) and vice versa. Something like bicep's and tricep's do. Can do GM'ing while sitting on a bench/box for direct lower back action. Though the hamstrings are not fully involved.

Seen a few guy's handle 400+ (have heard of much more.....but never seen in person) in very sloppy versions of GM'ing (very wide foot spacing...rounded back).  Seen others handle with-in the 300 to 350 range with respectable form. The lower back is a very powerful area when trained correctly. Lower back training can also help increase strength in DL'ing big time.

Do not need set's of 2's or 3's to increase leg power unless you are going into some serious PL'ing. What has worked for a lot of BB'ers is a rep range anywhere between 6 to 10 reps for strength/size. Trouble is a lot of trainee's , maybe even after years of training , still do not know if the want to be a true BB'er or a PL'er. Some genetic gifted can be good (even outstanding) at both. Most people can not. Good Luck.

as par your good morning comment..i'm a firm believer in doing exercises that mimic the lifts you're trying to get better in. Using a squat stance or a deadlift stance that you compete in when doing a particular movement like good mornings is SMART training. Not inferior that some believe and i'm not saying you're one of those people. Guys need to get a clue in though that eventually there's going to be weight so heavy that it's impossible to keep a perfectly straight back, feet touching, etc. That's why you condition your body to use heavy loads. I go wide stance with my good mornings over 500 and use the bar position that I have the bar in if and when I ever squat because sometimes I lean too far forward at the bottom or in the hole adn basically have to good morning the weight back up. That is why my good morning max was 615 and my best squat was 635... because my squatting is shitty and my lowerback is MUCH stronger than my hips.


NODEAL have someone take a video of your squatting and take notes of it and show it here to get more help and critiquing..

also check out wannabebig.com... TONS of top level and pro powerlifters over there always giving GREAT advice with lots of videos going around.

jpm101

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2008, 01:20:24 PM »
TWT: Correct. That is why I suggest that people "NEW" to doing GM'ing or SLDL's preform them with a straight back more as a learning exercise. Once you advance to 300-400+ than you have not much of a choice (mechanics, gravity, etc) and all that, than to round the back (depending on bwt at times) . And yes, this can be applied to the wide to extra wide stance that most  PL'ers do when approaching extreme weight. That is where the hamstrings come in strongly. The ROM is not near a 90 degree angle. Though, as you suggest, at times a squat can resemble more of a combo GM'ing and squat. But as long as you get green lights, who really cares..

Any exercise that can mock or mimic squats, Dl's or what ever have a solid place in any workout. It is all about strengthening the chain of muscles involved in any exercise. Just like chains, bands, board presses, PR, etc for benching is part of training. But a basic foundation in lifting should be put under anyone's  belts before going into these more advance and serious training methods. Give it 9 months to a  year to adjust (even for BB'ers) and ready the body for extreme heavy training. And than approach every workout with  serious intent. The Black flag is raised.

Two of my favorite exercises are GM'ings and SLDL. Both have paid off very, very well over the years. Lower back, hips, hams and the whole link of muscles from the feet all the way up to the traps and neck muscles. No matter if it was football or lifting, those two exercises did outstandingly well for me. I believed they even helped me a great deal, and I paid more attention to both of them, after major lower spine/back surgery from being blinded sides in my last college football game. Bowl game by the way. Good Luck.

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thewickedtruth

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2008, 01:26:35 PM »
good mornings and sldls like you suggested are two of the better exercises for the posterior chain along wiht GHRs and Reverse Hypers if you're lucky enough to have them in your gym. Thank god my new gym has them now or i'd be lost!

vic86

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2008, 11:38:52 PM »
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBStiffLegDeadlift.html  can u check this out? looks more like  a romanian DL than SLDL?? i dont really bend my knees during SLDL,its straight all time, can there be a variation?to handle more poundage?

thewickedtruth

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2008, 12:11:53 AM »
I'd have more of a slight bend in my knees to have more ham activation than what you describe but that's just me.

BFP

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2008, 07:29:05 AM »
I squatted 800 drug free

Jason

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2008, 07:31:39 AM »
eighteen hundred and fifty pounds

whatever you hit, you destroy!
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CHEVEN

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2008, 05:09:35 PM »
....502.0038154lbs ;)

Serously thats something no one can answer.
When your natural you need to count the fractions of a pound.

ASJChaotic

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Re: how much can i expect to squat as a natural?
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2008, 07:33:29 PM »
I squatted 800 drug free

Jason
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take it easy
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