Author Topic: Acorns are dropping like crazy  (Read 6699 times)

Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2008, 01:46:50 PM »
They are wasting the time and money of the taxpayers in having to go through all this garbage. 

If only a small percentage of this vote fraud goes though it will have a bad impact for everyone.

I think what you mean to say is "You're right. Im being completely ridiculous."

There is no organized vote fraud going on and when you look at the facts with even a modicum of rationality, none of these conspiracy theories make sense. It's a  completely politicized meme that an increasingly desparate right-wing fanatical base has latched onto until they can find some more mud to sling.

Decker

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2008, 01:49:11 PM »
Yes, I deny that the FBI investigating ACORN is politically motivated. 

You didn't answer my earlier questions:  "So what you're telling me is ACORN's voter registration fraud serves no purpose?  Why do you think they're doing it?"
Why do you think low paid workers hired to canvas votes just grab a phonebook and fill in names...or grab the dallas cowboy roster and fill in the forms?

They get paid for their work and the shitty job is passed on.  Where's this conspiracy?  Show me your proof that it's orchestrated topdown from ACORN.  Where's your proof?

You still haven't answered my question.

What does ACORN stand to gain by this nefarious voter fraud?

Decker

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2008, 01:52:16 PM »
I think what you mean to say is "You're right. Im being completely ridiculous."

There is no organized vote fraud going on and when you look at the facts with even a modicum of rationality, none of these conspiracy theories make sense. It's a  completely politicized meme that an increasingly desparate right-wing fanatical base has latched onto until they can find some more mud to sling.
You hit hard.  And I do agree with your point. 

This voter fraud crap is a diversion from the fact that under McCain and republican rule, this country has committed torture, war crimes, constitutional violations, and all the other scandals--housing,katrina, this and on and on.


Dos Equis

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #78 on: October 17, 2008, 01:53:26 PM »
Why do you think low paid workers hired to canvas votes just grab a phonebook and fill in names...or grab the dallas cowboy roster and fill in the forms?

They get paid for their work and the shitty job is passed on.  Where's this conspiracy?  Show me your proof that it's orchestrated topdown from ACORN.  Where's your proof?

You still haven't answered my question.

What does ACORN stand to gain by this nefarious voter fraud?

I don't have "proof that it's orchestrated topdown from ACORN."  All I have is common sense and an opinion.  And an FBI investigation.   :)  

I answered your question:

Quote
Dude.  Every instance of identity fraud involves a fictitious person.  You have someone pretending to be someone they are not, or someone who does not exist.  They're obviously trying to use false names and have people show up to vote pretending to be someone else.  Stop acting like voter fraud has never happened.  


I also agree with 333386 and the impact this may have on the polls.  

I guess you'll keep ignoring my questions.  

Decker

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #79 on: October 17, 2008, 01:58:19 PM »
I don't have "proof that it's orchestrated topdown from ACORN."  All I have is common sense and an opinion.  And an FBI investigation.   :)  

I answered your question:


I also agree with 333386 and the impact this may have on the polls.  

I guess you'll keep ignoring my questions.  
Your answer is nonsensical.

fabricated people do not exist.  They do not stand out in existence the way we do.  They exist as unicorns and liberal republicans exist.  But that's not material existence. 

In short, fabricated people cannot vote.  Right?

Since polling is irrelevant to the topic, would you care to share with us why you are mentioning it?

Which questions have I ignored?

Dos Equis

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2008, 02:09:22 PM »
Your answer is nonsensical.

fabricated people do not exist.  They do not stand out in existence the way we do.  They exist as unicorns and liberal republicans exist.  But that's not material existence. 

In short, fabricated people cannot vote.  Right?

Since polling is irrelevant to the topic, would you care to share with us why you are mentioning it?

Which questions have I ignored?


Of course fabricated people don't exist.  That's why people who create false identifies and try to perform acts with those false identities are committing crimes.  That's what fraud is all about:  pretending to be something you're not, lying, creating a false identity, etc.  This isn't unique.  Don't you watch the movies?     

Regarding my questions:


Quote

You didn't answer my earlier questions:  "So what you're telling me is ACORN's voter registration fraud serves no purpose?  Why do you think they're doing it?"

Decker

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2008, 02:33:41 PM »
Of course fabricated people don't exist.  That's why people who create false identifies and try to perform acts with those false identities are committing crimes.  That's what fraud is all about:  pretending to be something you're not, lying, creating a false identity, etc.  This isn't unique.  Don't you watch the movies?     

Regarding my questions:


In your embedded quote, are you referring to ACORN or to the FBI? 

And what exactly is the motivation for these people to fraudulently cast a vote?  You do understand that vote fraud is a felony.  I've seen 14 year sentences for such behavior.

Are you sure that ACORN could convince strangers to risk prison in order to cast a fraudulent vote?

Dos Equis

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2008, 02:39:56 PM »
In your embedded quote, are you referring to ACORN or to the FBI? 

And what exactly is the motivation for these people to fraudulently cast a vote?  You do understand that vote fraud is a felony.  I've seen 14 year sentences for such behavior.

Are you sure that ACORN could convince strangers to risk prison in order to cast a fraudulent vote?

I'm referring to ACORN.  What is the purpose?  Why are they doing it? 

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2008, 02:42:17 PM »
I find it amazing that people give them so much credit. So why did they arrest those guys that supposedly wanted to assassinate Obama? I mean they haven't shoot yet...and Acorn didn't fake a vote yet  ::)

So lets those fuckers free and Acorn free.... ::)

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2008, 03:03:46 PM »
::) Like this is news. ::)  I think Justice Stephens overseas cases like this one. 

Supreme Court Rules With Ohio Secretary of State on Voter Fraud Rules
FoxNews.com

The U.S. Supreme Court rules with Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, granting her a stay to a temporary restraining order from a federal appeals court that ordered her to provide a system for implementing voter fraud prevention methods.

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The U.S. Supreme Court agreed with Democratic Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, granting her a stay on Friday to a decision from a lower court that ordered her to provide a system for implementing voter fraud prevention methods.

The decision by the full court repudiates the lower court's ruling siding with the Ohio Republican Party and ordering Brunner to verify records of about 200,000 of 666,000 new voters this year whose driver's license and Social Security records don't match information in other government databases.

In an unsigned order, the high court ruled that it could not say whether Ohio was properly enforcing the Help America Vote Act. However, it said the Ohio GOP doesn't have the standing to file the suit.

"They didn't deal with the merits of the case," said Ohio GOP Chairman Bob Bennett. "What they dealt with was a technicality on whether we had standing or not to bring the action."

Bennett said Brunner could have set up a system months ago to check the discrepancies and that her actions have left the potential for voter fraud.

"If we have a close election in Ohio and there's any doubts, the failures will be laid right at her doorstep," Bennett said.

Brunner said the court's decision would help ease confusion in the run-up to Election Day.

She said the act was clear that the mismatch lists were to be used to maintain the voter database, not to determine voter eligibility.

"We are very pleased that the court recognized that this was an illegal challenge on the part of the Republicans," she said.

She said the office would have found a way to comply, but there were risks that qualified voters would have been disqualified.

"I think it's an unfair tactic to subject voters to this kind of uncertainty and anxiety this close to such an important election," she said.

The ruling states: "Respondents, however, are not sufficiently likely to prevail on the question whether Congress has authorized the District Court to enforce Section 303 in an action brought by a private litigant to justify the issuance of a TRO. ... We therefore grant the application for a stay and vacate the TRO."

Hedging her bets, Brunner filed a motion late Thursday night asking the federal appeals court to extend or modify an earlier order to come up with a system to help counties verify voter eligibility.

Circuit Court Judge George Smith set the completion time for Brunner to come up with a method for validating mismatched voter registration data at midnight Saturday. Brunner, who filed a request for a stay of the order with the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday, asked for a two-week extension so she could be compliant if the high court didn't see her way.

The Ohio Republican Party filed the initial suit challenging the state's compliance with the Help America Vote Act, alleging that the state has no system to deal with mismatched voter records.

John McCain's campaign, which has hammered groups like ACORN for its voter registration problems, issued a statement Friday saying the Supreme Court did not actually address violations of the Help America Vote Act.

"It remains our belief that American citizens should be guaranteed that their legitimate votes are not wiped away by illegally cast ballots. What is no longer in question is the partisan nature of Jennifer Brunner's efforts to minimize the level of fairness and transparency in this election," the statement said.

On Tuesday, the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati sided with the GOP by issuing its temporary restraining order. Brunner responded with her appeal to the high court.

In its reply brief to the Supreme Court, the Ohio GOP said if Brunner needed relief from the temporary restraining order then she should seek it from Smith, who issued the ruling.

Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2008, 10:55:33 PM »
Hahaha!   :)  So the FBI investigation is politically motivated?  Decker you are such a partisan.  lol . . .  

From the above article:


The decision by the full court repudiates the lower court's ruling siding with the Ohio Republican Party and ordering Brunner to verify records of about 200,000 of 666,000 new voters this year whose driver's license and Social Security records don't match information in other government databases.

In an unsigned order, the high court ruled that it could not say whether Ohio was properly enforcing the Help America Vote Act. However, it said the Ohio GOP doesn't have the standing to file the suit.


Yes, It's political. TAke note of who is filing the lawsuit. This article ,from the right leaning Fox News, is designed as a fear mongering piece.





Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2008, 10:59:35 PM »
This article, from The Washington Post delivers a more balanced story, with some very important details that Fox overlooked.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/17/AR2008101703205.html



"Both sides have said they believe many of the problems with registrations likely stem from typographical errors or address changes. "



"With the deadline lifted, Brunner said she will work to upgrade the computer system but did not commit to a timetable. She urged an end to court fights over the lists, saying in a statement, "I ask all involved to stop the legal maneuvers that unnecessarily shake public confidence." "


Gee, if these lawsuits shake public confidence and Brunner was already working to upgrade the system and both sides agree that the problems problem amount to nothing more than typographical errors, WHY WOULD THE REPUBLICANS FILE THESE LAWSUITS SO CLOSE TO THE ELECTION? WHAT WOULD THEY HAVE TO GAIN?


No, nothing politicized here. ::)











Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2008, 11:05:42 PM »
"We need to know the full extent of Senator Obama's relationship with ACORN, who is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy," McCain said at Wednesday's presidential debate.

His running mate Sarah Palin stood by the campaign's criticisms Friday.

"I think voters are very concerned about voter fraud and as more and more revelation comes in these 13 states that are now under investigation for potential voter fraud, I think that more American voters are becoming very, very concerned," she told reporters


Why would McCain and Palin make such wild, unfounded accusations? What could they possibly have to gain?  Surely, their policial base is not naive enough to actuallu fall for this?

Decker

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #88 on: October 18, 2008, 09:52:06 AM »
I'm referring to ACORN.  What is the purpose?  Why are they doing it? 
See, you are doing it again.

I already explained that ACORN hires people to enroll voters.  Some of these hires are work-release felons.  That happens in a country that locks up a lot of its citizens.

Did ACORN direct these people to add mickey mouse to the voter rolls?  No.  And as I've already explained, they have nothing to gain from it.  You failed to point out their motivation.  Instead you assume they are engaged in vote fraud.  That's just not the case.

It was your boys Gonzalez and Bush that targeted ACORN with investigations so they could scrub voter rolls wholesale thereby perpetrating Election Fraud in broad daylight.  It was also those boys that fired attorneys general that wouldn't play their corrupt game.

It's your republican brothers ruining this country,  Not ACORN and Mickey Mouse.

Here's a good story that lays out some of the facts:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/54011.html

Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #89 on: October 18, 2008, 10:29:02 AM »

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/54011.html

Great article. Informative and hits on every single point. Unfortunately, certain people don't even bother to read the articles they post, so I doubt they'll make it through that one.  ???

Dos Equis

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #90 on: October 18, 2008, 11:40:55 AM »
From the above article:


The decision by the full court repudiates the lower court's ruling siding with the Ohio Republican Party and ordering Brunner to verify records of about 200,000 of 666,000 new voters this year whose driver's license and Social Security records don't match information in other government databases.

In an unsigned order, the high court ruled that it could not say whether Ohio was properly enforcing the Help America Vote Act. However, it said the Ohio GOP doesn't have the standing to file the suit.


Yes, It's political. TAke note of who is filing the lawsuit. This article ,from the right leaning Fox News, is designed as a fear mongering piece.






Two problems with your conclusion:

1.  The decision wasn't based on the merits:  "the high court ruled that it could not say whether Ohio was properly enforcing the Help America Vote Act."

2.  This has nothing to do with the FBI investigation.  I didn't read where the supreme court halted or even mentioned the FBI investigation.   

Dos Equis

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #91 on: October 18, 2008, 11:49:53 AM »
See, you are doing it again.

I already explained that ACORN hires people to enroll voters.  Some of these hires are work-release felons.  That happens in a country that locks up a lot of its citizens.

Did ACORN direct these people to add mickey mouse to the voter rolls?  No.  And as I've already explained, they have nothing to gain from it.  You failed to point out their motivation.  Instead you assume they are engaged in vote fraud.  That's just not the case.

It was your boys Gonzalez and Bush that targeted ACORN with investigations so they could scrub voter rolls wholesale thereby perpetrating Election Fraud in broad daylight.  It was also those boys that fired attorneys general that wouldn't play their corrupt game.

It's your republican brothers ruining this country,  Not ACORN and Mickey Mouse.

Here's a good story that lays out some of the facts:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/54011.html

Yes, the article lays out facts like these: 

"In nearly a dozen states, county registrars have found phony voter registration applications submitted by canvassers for Acorn; criminal investigations are under way in Nevada, Ohio and elsewhere; and a racketeering suit was filed in Ohio this week." 

And these:

"Obama's campaign did pay $832,000 to an affiliate of Acorn, Citizens Services, to help turn out voters in Democratic primaries, although the purpose of the money was initially misstated in reports to the Federal Election Commission."

No, nothing criminal about this organization.

I can find "articles" that lay out some of the "facts" too:

More ACORN Vote Fraud Attempts
Posted on September 15, 2008

-By Warner Todd Huston

The union supporting, Democratic Party pushing, extreme leftist Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) has been caught trying to jerry-rig voter applications in Michigan. It is looking like fraud on a massive scale in Detroit as ACORN tries to fill the Democrat voter rolls with fake Democrat voters.

ACORN is being investigated after several Municipal Clerks discovered fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications.

The majority of the fraudulent and duplicate applications are coming from the liberal ACORN group based in Detroit, Michigan, which now has ACORN investigating the problem once again as well as the Secretary of State’s Office turning over some of those applications to the U.S. Attorney’s Office.

And it isn’t just Detroit that has found fraud being perpetrated by ACORN.

In recent years, ACORN’s voter registration programs have come under investigation in Ohio, Colorado, Missouri and Washington, with some employees convicted of voter fraud.

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review is also reporting that the Obama campaign has been forced to amend a report to reflect over $800,000 of previously unreported ACORN donations to his campaign.

ACORN is at the heart of one of the most massive voter fraud campaigns in American history. ACORN is intimate with Barack Obama and is a major supporter of unions throughout the country and is doing its level best (and illegally at that) trying to assure that Obama wins this election.
 
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/09/15/more-acorn-vote-fraud-attempts/
 

Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #92 on: October 18, 2008, 11:54:08 AM »
The FBI investigation doesn't exist in a world all of its own. It is part of a larger scheme to make voter fraud seem like a threat to our democracy when it is virtually a non issue . That scheme is being spearheaded by the Republican party. Yes, the FBI's investigation is politically motivated. It's part of the same Alberto Gonzalez nonsense from a few years ago.  His underlings baling at the fact that his ACORN investigations were nothing more than partisan witchhunts  was the crux of that scandal.

.
________________________ _____________________

Secondly, as pointed out in the article from my subsequent post, both the Republicans and Democrats believe that the registration discrepancies stem from typographical errors not actual voter fraud. Yet, for some reason, other than the quotes in which they directly say this, they frame the issue as an example of possible widespread voter fraud.
________________________ _________-


You seem to read between the lines and draw erratic conclusions when it comes to dems, but you amazingly lack the ability to put 2 and 2 together when the players involved have an (R) in front of their names


Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #93 on: October 18, 2008, 12:01:18 PM »
Yes, the article lays out facts like these: 

"In nearly a dozen states, county registrars have found phony voter registration applications submitted by canvassers for Acorn; criminal investigations are under way in Nevada, Ohio and elsewhere; and a racketeering suit was filed in Ohio this week." 

And these:

"Obama's campaign did pay $832,000 to an affiliate of Acorn, Citizens Services, to help turn out voters in Democratic primaries, although the purpose of the money was initially misstated in reports to the Federal Election Commission."

No, nothing criminal about this organization.
 


Further proving that you only bother absorbing things that don't challenge your world view. Yes, the article does contain the quotes you listed above, but it qualifies them with these:




Lomax (the CLark County, Nev. registrar) said in a phone interview with McClatchy: "I don't think Acorn consciously sets out to turn in fraudulent forms. I just think the people they hire find it incredibly easy to rip off their bosses and turn in fake forms."


...he doubted that any of the fake filings would result in fraudulent votes.



Election officials say that registrationsunder names such as Mickey Mouse or Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo suggest that Acorn workers were trying to fill their quota of 20 applications to get paid, not to steal the presidency. They say that county registrars or poll workers would flag such obvious pranks, and that anyone who signed a poll book in another person's name would risk being prosecuted for a felony.



Acorn has long been a target of Republicans, including the Justice Department under former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Five days before the 2006 election, interim U.S. Attorney Bradley Schlozman of Kansas City trumpeted the indictments of four Acorn voter registration workers, despite a department policy discouraging politically sensitive prosecutions close to elections. Schlozman is now facing a criminal investigation into the veracity of his congressional testimony about that and other matters.


Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #94 on: October 18, 2008, 12:04:31 PM »
There is no fire here. There is just a lot of smoke being blown up naive Republicans' asses.

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #95 on: October 18, 2008, 12:22:02 PM »
There is no fire here. There is just a lot of smoke being blown up naive Republicans' asses.

Sure it is  ::)

Obama having direct connections to a conspiracy to fake votes is nothing but Palin firing an employee is headline news  ::)

Dos Equis

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #96 on: October 18, 2008, 12:22:54 PM »
The FBI investigation doesn't exist in a world all of its own. It is part of a larger scheme to make voter fraud seem like a threat to our democracy when it is virtually a non issue . That scheme is being spearheaded by the Republican party. Yes, the FBI's investigation is politically motivated. It's part of the same Alberto Gonzalez nonsense from a few years ago.  His underlings baling at the fact that his ACORN investigations were nothing more than partisan witchhunts  was the crux of that scandal.

.
________________________ _____________________

Secondly, as pointed out in the article from my subsequent post, both the Republicans and Democrats believe that the registration discrepancies stem from typographical errors not actual voter fraud. Yet, for some reason, other than the quotes in which they directly say this, they frame the issue as an example of possible widespread voter fraud.
________________________ _________-


You seem to read between the lines and draw erratic conclusions when it comes to dems, but you amazingly lack the ability to put 2 and 2 together when the players involved have an (R) in front of their names



You're "reading between the lines" to find a politically motivated FBI investigation.  You cited a supreme court decision to support your assumption.  The supreme court opinion does not support you.  That's what I call an amazing grasping of straws.  

You can try an piece together insignificant and irrelevant "fact" to support your wild partisan conspiracy theory, but it frankly doesn't make any sense.  

Dos Equis

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #97 on: October 18, 2008, 12:26:55 PM »

Further proving that you only bother absorbing things that don't challenge your world view. Yes, the article does contain the quotes you listed above, but it qualifies them with these:




Lomax (the CLark County, Nev. registrar) said in a phone interview with McClatchy: "I don't think Acorn consciously sets out to turn in fraudulent forms. I just think the people they hire find it incredibly easy to rip off their bosses and turn in fake forms."


...he doubted that any of the fake filings would result in fraudulent votes.



Election officials say that registrationsunder names such as Mickey Mouse or Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo suggest that Acorn workers were trying to fill their quota of 20 applications to get paid, not to steal the presidency. They say that county registrars or poll workers would flag such obvious pranks, and that anyone who signed a poll book in another person's name would risk being prosecuted for a felony.



Acorn has long been a target of Republicans, including the Justice Department under former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Five days before the 2006 election, interim U.S. Attorney Bradley Schlozman of Kansas City trumpeted the indictments of four Acorn voter registration workers, despite a department policy discouraging politically sensitive prosecutions close to elections. Schlozman is now facing a criminal investigation into the veracity of his congressional testimony about that and other matters.



lol. . .  And what is my "world view"?  lol . . .

But to get back to the issue of ACORN, the bold, colored print does not change the facts.  The facts include ACORN being investigated in Nevada, Ohio, Colorado, Missouri, and Washington, "with some employees convicted of voter fraud." 

Those darn "Republicans" have infiltrated law enforcement all over the country.   
 

 

Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #98 on: October 18, 2008, 12:28:54 PM »
Dude, even the party that brought the suit doesn't believe voter fraud is going on. The decision of the Supreme Court is irrelevant.

and this:
Quote
You can try an piece together insignificant and irrelevant "fact" to support your wild partisan conspiracy theory, but it frankly doesn't make any sense. 

is cute. But I still have to give it tow  ::) ::) and a  :P .


Al Doggity

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Re: Acorns are dropping like crazy
« Reply #99 on: October 18, 2008, 12:30:57 PM »
lol. . .  And what is my "world view"?  lol . . .

But to get back to the issue of ACORN, the bold, colored print does not change the facts.  The facts include ACORN being investigated in Nevada, Ohio, Colorado, Missouri, and Washington, "with some employees convicted of voter fraud." 

Those darn "Republicans" have infiltrated law enforcement all over the country.   
 

 

The bold colored print is what's called context. It actually DOES change the facts.


The most important fact of all is that ACOR is being INVESTIGATED. They haven't been INDICTED or CONVICTED of anything.