Is there a point to lifting "heavy" if you are natural?

[Mars]

your genetics are pretty amazing yourself, Dutch Destroyer.

my arm genetics are one of the worst ever observed.

[io856]

at the end its all genetics that decide everything.

nope.

[Naked4Jesus]

I never get a significant burn or pump when i may do a heavy set of db curls of say 6-8 reps. I just "lift" it up (with proper form), but still dont get a deep pump.

im simply talking about maximum muscle breakdown methods. This obviously depends if you are into strength or having a bb'er physique. Strongmen are big "bulk" on a frame, but thats what they train for and i understand. But, these strength guys would look like shit on a bb stage. no striations/seperation/v taper, etc etc.

Contrarily,

if i do a moderate weight set of 12-15 reps, I feel the pump and burning much more pronounced. Anybody here into high volume training?  You know how your quads feel when you do a dropset of leg extensions til u burnout? I like that feeling on whatever part im training.

Google Max OT you whimpering little gimp!  Top naturals always train heavy.  Now grow a fucking pair and lift like a fucking man and stop being such a little clit!!!!   

[triple_pickle]

because it is fun

[ninja turtle]

The pump and burn have nothing to do with stimulating muscle growth. That's a misguided newbie though process.

You have a lot to learn.

Lets say you train your calves, you go heavy, heavy sets on it. Guess what happens? no growth whatsoever!
Lets say you do one light monster rep set, the blood is rushing trough your calves,it burns, result in 3 months of torture= 1 inch gain.
I get a pump from heavy hammer curls too. In most cases you will grow better from heavy excersize.
You re misguided if you think your legs and forearms will not grow from the pump and burn.

[dantelis]

FYI, the "pump" is absolutely irrelevant to muscle growth. 

But it is like coming, ALA Arnold, so it is still a good feeling.

[Cromespyder]

FYI, the "pump" is absolutely irrelevant to muscle growth.  You'll get a hell of a pump from sets of 100 leg extensions, but your legs won't grow for shit from it.

a pump is not the be all end all but i do think it is an important  factor in muscle growth

[Ursus]

capillarisation can add up to 20% on muscle size

Adding lots of muscle using light weights is not functional and useless....why not carry around 40lbs of fat (of course muscle is aesthetic to a degree)

[hipolito mejia]

I never get a significant burn or pump when i may do a heavy set of db curls of say 6-8 reps. I just "lift" it up (with proper form), but still dont get a deep pump.

im simply talking about maximum muscle breakdown methods. This obviously depends if you are into strength or having a bb'er physique. Strongmen are big "bulk" on a frame, but thats what they train for and i understand. But, these strength guys would look like shit on a bb stage. no striations/seperation/v taper, etc etc.

Contrarily,

if i do a moderate weight set of 12-15 reps, I feel the pump and burning much more pronounced. Anybody here into high volume training?  You know how your quads feel when you do a dropset of leg extensions til u burnout? I like that feeling on whatever part im training.

1-If youre natural you can forget about striation (Unless youre Skip Lacour SP?)

2-There's a poit of trainning heavy the first 4 -5 years (specially if you start young).

[hipolito mejia]

what's the point of having big muscles if they don't do anything but look pretty?

 

because i like beer and cookies too much and have no desire to stand on stage in a thong.

I like how you ask and answer your own questions..   

[garebear]

what's the point of having big muscles if they don't do anything but look pretty?

 i don't do pretty muscle..i do functional muscle.

Lifting heavy helps build bone density, muscle density, over all strength, size (duh), and comes in handy in regards to general physical preparedness....

I also compete in powerlifting so strength is crucial.. because i like beer and cookies too much and have no desire to stand on stage in a thong.

way to mask your lack of discipline with homophobia.

[James Phoenix]

I do both.

I start an exercise with heavy reps, and stop it when I can only complete a few forced reps.

After completing those forced reps, I pick up a light weight,
and crank out as many reps as I can until my arm is swollen from the pump.
I call this part of the set a "burn session."

If you are only doing heavy reps, you aren't breaking down the muscle as much as possible;
you are still left with enough energy to continue on a lighter weight.

Also, this method makes it harder for your body to adapt to one type of training.
To further compound things, I do explosive reps on alternating weeks. I call them explosive reps,
because I aim to jerk the weight as fast as possible. I do this for speed, and as mentioned, to mix things up.

[dyslexic]

Bodybuilding dogma. If science has not yet perfected their conclusion to exactly what causes muscle growth, how are a bunch of internet  psychos gonna declare that anything is correct?


Random knowledge is all you know. Admit it.


Empirical data is the only thing you might talk about with some dignity. Even then, all it proves is that it worked for you.


"Intensity" simply takes on another facade in high-rep training. High rep training produces insane amounts of lactic acid. You will fail from fatigue and pain. There is also some (subjective) talk of hyperplasia and split fascia.


Some folks say to use as heavy weights as possible and avoid failure. Some say that strength and size go hand in hand. Some disagree. This must be why powerlifters can remain in the same weight-class and still get stronger without getting bigger.


Who knows? Cause stress through intensity...then adapt to it. You might grow.

[Mars]

nope.

offcourse it does.

[Overload]

Naturals should always train for strength.

That is, if they want to have muscles.

[kevcat]

I think its harder doing 20 rep squats than it is doing 6-8 rep squats tbh so whats the argument??? Same with shoulder pressing a heavy weight for 6 reps to failure aint half as much pain as doing 15 reps to failure.Nothing wrong with pain though.Do what works for you, simple

[Charlys69]

and 50 reps of Squats to faillure are more painfull than 15....

[kevcat]

lol true, but i guess the point is what builds muscle best?? I dont think anyone really knows

[Ursus]

Naturals should always train for strength.

That is, if they want to have muscles.

Amen!

[QuakerOats]

I think its harder doing 20 rep squats than it is doing 6-8 rep squats tbh so whats the argument??? Same with shoulder pressing a heavy weight for 6 reps to failure aint half as much pain as doing 15 reps to failure.Nothing wrong with pain though.Do what works for you, simple

it's all about fiber recruitment and breakdown, you recruit and breakdown more muscle fibers lifting heavy, i do agree with you on the 20 rep squats though, absolutely brutally hard work, 15 reps on upper body work is just a waste of time though.

[Zach Trowbridge]

There is no point in lifting light if you're natural and want to be large and strong. Anything below 65% 1RM is pretty much useless.

The only way to create myofibrillar growth is by damaging the myosin and actin themselves. Low intensity weights (sub 65% 1RM) do little damage to protein structures. Yes, the action "burns". But a "burn" doesn't disrupt fiber integrity. It tells you you've got increased ammonia in the muscle. It tells you that your muscles can't buffer anymore hydrogen ions. Big deal. You can boost ammonia and hydrogen ions like crazy and not disrupt protein structure.

No disruption = no growth, by and large.

Disruption happens at a peak around 85% to 90% 1RM. And meta-analysis of most research shows that most muscle groups can withstand between 50 and 70 repetitions at 85 to 90 1RM per 5 day period. Anything less insufficiently motivates myofibrillar protein disruptions (and therefore falls short of maximizing calpain and immune/cytokine responses, and the further ensuing localized growth factor cascade involving FGF and IGF, MGF, among others.) Do more, and you want to ensure you are a very well trained and coached and fed athlete to ensure you don't overtrain. Most bodybuilders don't overtrain. Most are chronically undertrained, in my experience.

The basic tenets to get big:

1. 50 to 70 repetitions, per muscle group (a lat is a muscle group, and erectors are a separate one, as an example) per 5 day period. Split these 50 to 70 reps over as many days per week as you can. Lumping them into one workout per 5 day period is not as efficient as doing 10 reps every day for 5 days, for example

2. Lift explosively, as fast as you can, in the concentric. The bar may not move fast at 90% 1RM, but do your best to try. That's what's important. Fight the concentric, but don't move agonizingly slow. There's benefit in ballistic eccentrics.

3. Focus on multi-joint lifts. Isolation exercises waste time and effort. If given one exercise, we would all squat. If given two, we would deadlift and squat. If given three, we would squat, dead, and press. And so on. Takes a while before you weed out all great multi-joint movements to get to single arm rear cable laterals, doesn't it?

4. Your body is remarkably similar to most humans, despite what your mother tells you (i.e. that your special and not like the other boys). You need heavy weights, and you need to lift that heavy weight often to grow.

5. Different muscles don't respond to different rep ranges. By and large, you have equal slow and fast twitch fibers in most major muscles (exceptions for muscles like soleus and forearm extensors). So, high reps don't work on legs. Heavy weights works on legs. Just like it does for pecs and lats, shoulders and arms. Type IIB fibers grow the fastest. They need 85%1RM to get hit -- lighter weights fail to recruit them efficiently. So, lift heavy, target the fibers most apt to grow, and do it often. Waste time with light weights, if you like wasting time.

6. If your pecs don't grow as fast as your delts, it's because you have a mechanical advantage that helps you preferentially recruit shoulder muscles over chest muscles. Maybe it's a lever advantage. Maybe it's a neuromuscular motor pattern you unconsciously learned as a young boy. Whatever it is, you have to unlearn and learn all over again. In this case, again, heavy weights and lots of reps. Teach the muscle to lift and contract against a resistance. By and large, though, weak bodyparts usually stay weak compared to the strong ones. Anabolic products only further exacerbate this problem.

Post of the year.

[Cromespyder]

Post of the year.

snx knows his shit, i bet he's a beast.

[Tapeworm]

Fucking Getbig.    Every time I get a few weeks into a new program, someone makes a post that gets me asking if I'm on the right track.

Nice post snx. 

[Ursus]

nice post snx.

[Bast000]

FYI, the "pump" is absolutely irrelevant to muscle growth.  You'll get a hell of a pump from sets of 100 leg extensions, but your legs won't grow for shit from it.

sure they will.