Natural Muscle Gain

[wavelength]

my (natural) friend put on 25lb of pure muscle in his first year. i however would be lucky to put on even 5 quality pounds a year. pasta seems to be helping though.

I highly doubt the 25lb of pure muscle.

[d0nny2600]

The question has nothing to do with me, it has a different background. I read a study that suggests a 30lb/year increase. Although this was not the main focus of the study, I would think that something must be wrong with it.

Study is flawed or has a sponsor behind it pushing a supplement. No natural gains 30lbs lean a year

[wavelength]

btw- A better question is, whats the maximum amount of muscle a natural can gain in their lifetime.

Imo its around 30lbs.

Good call. In my 10 years of training, I maybe gained 25lbs of lean mass (right now I'm below that due to injuries last year).

I also don't think the rate is significantly higher with bulking and cutting.

[JOHN MATRIX]

I highly doubt the 25lb of pure muscle.

all i know is he went from 155 ish to 185 ish with no noticeable decrease in leanness, his bench went up almost a hundred pounds. obviously it wasnt 100% muscle but it seems like most of it was? he was just a guy with great genes for strength and thickness gains. poor structure though

[Boost]

Heavily dependant on genetics.
i would say for me, i have to put on about 14 pounds to gain an extra inch on my arms.
I think that is achieveable within 6 months if you REALLY work hard. I am talking scheduled eating etc...
How much are you willing to sacrafice. You will shock yourself if you REALLY put the effort in. Not just for 1 week of "good eating"
6 months of solid eating with gradual lean weight gain will produce amazing results. Up the numbers on the bar, and the numbers on the scale

[wavelength]

all i know is he went from 155 ish to 185 ish with no noticeable decrease in leanness, his bench went up almost a hundred pounds. obviously it wasnt 100% muscle but it seems like most of it was? he was just a guy with great genes for strength and thickness gains. poor structure though

Well, bodyfat % is hard to measure and even harder to guess. A good way to check is to get down to very low BF values (< 8%) and see how much muscle is left. Some people e.g. look pretty lean at 15%, others look fat at 10%. However, almost everybody is surprised at how much weight must be lost to get below 8%.

[wavelength]

Heavily dependant on genetics.
i would say for me, i have to put on about 14 pounds to gain an extra inch on my arms.
I think that is achieveable within 6 months if you REALLY work hard. I am talking scheduled eating etc...
How much are you willing to sacrafice. You will shock yourself if you REALLY put the effort in. Not just for 1 week of "good eating"
6 months of solid eating with gradual lean weight gain will produce amazing results. Up the numbers on the bar, and the numbers on the scale

You are telling me that as a natural advanced lifter you can put on 14lbs of lean muscle mass in 6 months? Or are you talking 14lbs of body weight?

[Method101]

Well, bodyfat % is hard to measure and even harder to guess. A good way to check is to get down to very low BF values (< 8%) and see how much muscle is left. Some people e.g. look pretty lean at 15%, others look fat at 10%. However, almost everybody is surprised at how much weight must be lost to get below 8%.

is that you in your avatar?

[wavelength]

is that you in your avatar?

Yes, pic from two weeks ago.

[Pete Nice]

Fair question...


Age is something that also has to be added into this equation

[Boost]

You are telling me that as a natural advanced lifter you can put on 14lbs of lean muscle mass in 6 months? Or are you talking 14lbs of body weight?

Not all lean muscle, However to see significant changes in your physique you must make a significant change in BODY WEIGHT
Alot of time Natural lifters think they have hit a wall, when in fact they simply are not adding body weight like they were during their "newbie gains" and this is because they simply are not putting the effort in with the diet.
Alot of guys think they are eating alot, but in reality they may eat alot one day, then just hit maintinence for the next few days.
If you are consistently eating slightly above maintinence then your body weight will shift upwards and you WILL SEE CHANGES IN YOUR PHYSIQUE.

Q for u : I assume you think you have a hit a wall? The past year you feel like you have nto made the changes that you made when u first started? I was exactly the same.....then i realised.....i had been (give or take 7-10lb) the same weight for about a year.
Once i started eating consistently the weight started coming on....and guess what....my physique started changing.....the bigger you get, the more food you have to consume.....and most people have a problem with that.

Bottom line : WANT A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN YOUR PHYSIQUE? ADD BODY WEIGHT SLOWLY BUT CONSISTENTLY.....its HARD WORK

[wavelength]

Not all lean muscle, However to see significant changes in your physique you must make a significant change in BODY WEIGHT
Alot of time Natural lifters think they have hit a wall, when in fact they simply are not adding body weight like they were during their "newbie gains" and this is because they simply are not putting the effort in with the diet.
Alot of guys think they are eating alot, but in reality they may eat alot one day, then just hit maintinence for the next few days.
If you are consistently eating slightly above maintinence then your body weight will shift upwards and you WILL SEE CHANGES IN YOUR PHYSIQUE.

Q for u : I assume you think you have a hit a wall? The past year you feel like you have nto made the changes that you made when u first started? I was exactly the same.....then i realised.....i had been (give or take 7-10lb) the same weight for about a year.
Once i started eating consistently the weight started coming on....and guess what....my physique started changing.....the bigger you get, the more food you have to consume.....and most people have a problem with that.

Bottom line : WANT A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN YOUR PHYSIQUE? ADD BODY WEIGHT SLOWLY BUT CONSISTENTLY.....its HARD WORK

Of course, I know that I have to add weight to add muscle. I can easily gain 14lbs or 1 inch on my arm, I have absolutely no problem with that. The question is what part of it is muscle and how much remains when you get lean again.

I have hit several walls in my years of training and used different methods of breaking through.

[wavelength]

Fair question...


Age is something that also has to be added into this equation

Translation: I'm old.



I'm 35 BTW, not exactly the spring chicken either.

[Fatpanda]

wave if you are talking about that study i posted it does not suggest 30lbs of muscle gain in a year - however with correct training - nurition including timing - yes it is more than possible to gain that amount.

remember correct timing increases protein synthesis 400% - that 4x as much potential muscle, add correct training, with emphasis on low rep/heavy weight and this potentially increases again. if you cannot gain 30lbs in a year you are doing something very very wrong.

i have personally went from around 148lbs to around 290's. now i'm not saying that was all muscle, but i would guess fat was no more than 60 lbs.

that study also showed the addition of creatine increases anabolic effects further -through its own mechanisms,so it is more than achievable to gain 0.5lbs a wek for 10 weeks  

[wavelength]

wave if you are talking about that study i posted it does not suggest 30lbs of muscle gain in a year - however with correct training - nurition including timing - yes it is more than possible to gain that amount.

remember correct timing increases protein synthesis 400% - that 4x as much potential muscle, add correct training, with emphasis on low rep/heavy weight and this potentially increases again. if you cannot gain 30lbs in a year you are doing something very very wrong.

i have personally went from around 148lbs to around 290's. now i'm not saying that was all muscle, but i would guess fat was no more than 60 lbs.

that study also showed the addition of creatine increases anabolic effects further -through its own mechanisms,so it is more than achievable to gain 0.5lbs a wek for 10 weeks  

Yes I am talking about that study and I'm calling BS on the 2.7kg LBM in 10 weeks (= 30lb/year) for an avarage natural lifter (while losing fat!!!). I would even call the 1.5kg BS for the other group. Or was it a study on juicers?

[Fatpanda]

Yes I am talking about that study and I'm calling BS on the 2.7kg LBM in 10 weeks (= 30lb/year) for an avarage natural lifter (while losing fat!!!). I would even call the 1.5kg BS for the other group. Or was it a study on juicers?

hahahahaha the study lasts for 10 weeks - they gained 2.7kg in that time, that does not mean they will keep gaining at that rate for a year 

again 0.5 lbs a week muscle gain is more than possible - although maybe not while sticking to the adonis/wavelength principles.

instead of calling bs - why don't you look at your protein intake/overall calories/workout routine/add in pre/post supplementation like that study does and try it yourself.

[wavelength]

hahahahaha the study lasts for 10 weeks - they gained 2.7kg in that time, that does not mean they will keep gaining at that rate for a year 

again 0.5 lbs a week muscle gain is more than possible - although maybe not while sticking to the adonis/wavelength principles.

instead of calling bs - why don't you look at your protein intake/overall calories/workout routine/add in pre/post supplementation like that study does and try it yourself.

I'm aware of how long the study lasts. I could not find information of how long the participants have been training before. Maybe such gains are possible for a few individuals under certain circumstances (e.g. if they never lifted in their lifes before, if they were carb depleted, etc.).

And as I said, I have tried. I have tried many different methods.

[Fatpanda]

I'm aware of how long the study lasts. I could not find information of how long the participants have been training before. Maybe such gains are possible for a few individuals under certain circumstances (e.g. if they never lifted in their lifes before, if they were carb depleted, etc.).

And as I said, I have tried. I have tried many different methods.

they were all trained athletes - not newbie gains. however they all did max-ot type workouts, so if they were doing lighter volume workouts before, it would have been a massive change, and produced added results.

[Armageddon]

they were all trained athletes - not newbie gains. however they all did max-ot type workouts, so if they were doing lighter volume workouts before, it would have been a massive change, and produced added results.

What type of athletes??  If they trained runners than we are not interested.  We are bbers for god’s sake and we can pack more than that.  But if we put on 5lbs in 10 weeks than we must have done something wrong.  And yes I mean lean muscle mass

I train hi intensity with 5-6 meals a day and I am able to put more that that with whey protein and creatine alone

[WillGrant]

depends on your genetics.

end of discussion.

Yup

[wavelength]

What type of athletes??  If they trained runners than we are not interested.  We are bbers for god’s sake and we can pack more than that.  But if we put on 5lbs in 10 weeks than we must have done something wrong.  And yes I mean lean muscle mass

I train hi intensity with 5-6 meals a day and I am able to put more that that with whey protein and creatine alone

I think his point was a different one. Anyway:

What do you think is your rate of lean body mass gain? Are you telling me that as a natural, it is higher than 30lb/year?

[Method101]

I think his point was a different one. Anyway:

What do you think is your rate of lean body mass gain? Are you telling me that as a natural, it is higher than 30lb/year?

30-40 lbs is the max in a fucking lifetime for a natural, you can eat all the protein in the world or lift heavier and heavier weights, but theres a limit to how much muscle the body can maintain without drugs.
with drugs people who respond well like all IFBB pros can add 3x to that natural limit

[Meso_z]

my (natural) friend put on 25lb of pure muscle in his first year. i however would be lucky to put on even 5 quality pounds a year. pasta seems to be helping though.

"pure muscle" 

[spinnis]

0-5 pounds a year, if its not your first year of training.

[wavelength]

0-5 pounds a year, if its not your first year of training.

I would say more like 0-2 lbs/year.
5lbs/year as an advanced natural lifter = genetic freak. Most pros don't gain that much, at least not in their later years.