Author Topic: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud  (Read 3120 times)

Brixtonbulldog

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NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« on: October 25, 2008, 07:35:07 AM »
Group’s Tally of New Voters Was Vastly Overstated

Published: October 23, 2008

On Oct. 6, the community organizing group Acorn and an affiliated charity called Project Vote announced with jubilation that they had registered 1.3 million new voters. But it turns out the claim was a wild exaggeration, and the real number of newly registered voters nationwide is closer to 450,000, Project Vote’s executive director, Michael Slater, said in an interview.

The remainder are registered voters who were changing their address and roughly 400,000 that were rejected by election officials for a variety of reasons, including duplicate registrations, incomplete forms and fraudulent submissions from low-paid field workers trying to please their supervisors, Mr. Slater acknowledged.

In registration drives, it is common for a percentage of newly registered voters to be disqualified for various reasons, although experts say the percentage is higher when groups pay workers to gather registrations. But the disclosure on Thursday that 30 percent of Acorn’s registrations were faulty was described by Republicans as further proof of what they said was Acorn’s effort to tilt the election unfairly.

“We were wondering how many were Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse,” said Danny Diaz, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee. “The group is really tainted, and any work they do is suspect.”

Republicans had been prepared for months to make an issue of Acorn’s registration drive. A year ago, the party’s national committee anticipated the surge of new registrations by putting a map of the country on its Web site, labeled “You Can’t Make This Up! Vote Fraud.”

Democrats and officials with Acorn accuse Republicans of trying to manufacture a controversy to deflect attention from alleged voter suppression activities in several states. Election officials and experts say there is little chance that significant numbers of supporters of either party would actually try to vote through a fraudulent registration.

Over the last few weeks, the Acorn registration drive has become a flash point in the campaign when the flood of new voter registrations prompted complaints from election officials about the high number of improper submissions. State and local officials have begun investigations into possible fraudulent activity in at least 10 states.

If interviews with two dozen voters in the swing states of Florida and Ohio are any indication, Republicans’ efforts appear to have resonated with some members of their own party as well as with some independents and Democrats.

“I’d have to see how bad it is and what happens,” said Dorrie Cohen, an 82-year-old Democrat in Boynton Beach, Fla. “If it’s very organized fraud, I think that I would question the election. If it’s just a few people trying something, I don’t think I would. However, there’s so much on the newspapers and the TV about it, I imagine it will be organized.”

Mr. Slater and Acorn officials have defended their voter registration work. They said that it remained technically difficult to weed out duplications without better access to election records, and that their internal auditing identified many of the fraudulent registrations, which they flagged for election officials to review.

“Everybody knows that when 1.3 million applications are submitted, not every single one of them gets on the rolls,” said Brian Kettenring, a spokesman for Acorn. “That’s common sense.”

The Republican drive to publicize Acorn’s problems has had another less visible impact on the race, shifting the focus of election lawyers in the homestretch to the Nov. 4 election. Much of the Democratic team of lawyers and operatives who had intended to work on monitoring voter rights at the polls has instead played defense the last two weeks, responding to accusations of fraud.

The Obama campaign has also sought to deflect Republican efforts to tie Acorn’s registration campaign to the Democratic presidential nominee, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois. The Republicans highlighted a federal election filing by the Obama campaign that showed an $832,598 payment last February to an Acorn affiliate, Citizens Services Inc., for “staging, sound, lighting.” The Republicans suggested that the payment was actually for voter registration. But the Obama campaign said it had mislabeled the payment, and it filed an amended report that reflects the money was for get-out-the-vote efforts.

In a letter on Thursday to Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey, the general counsel for the Obama campaign, Robert F. Bauer, said he worried that Republican Party officials or candidates would pressure the Justice Department to improperly involve itself in the election.

Accusations of impropriety by a Republican voter registration campaign surfaced this week in California, where the authorities arrested the owner of a firm hired by the California Republican Party to register voters. Officials said that the owner, Mark Jacoby, fraudulently registered himself at a childhood address to qualify for gathering signatures on petitions and registering voters.

Mr. Jacoby’s firm, Young Political Majors, is also facing accusations of tricking residents into registering as Republicans by having them sign petitions seeking tougher penalties for child molesters.

Mr. Jacoby’s lawyer, Dan Goldfine, said that the charges against his client were “baseless,” and added that although the authorities have been looking into accusations that Mr. Jacoby’s firm improperly registered voters, they did not charge him with those violations.

In June, federal election records show, the California Republican Party paid $175,000 for voter registration work to the firm of a Republican operative, Nathan Sproul, who has been investigated for voter registration fraud in several states. Mr. Sproul could not be reached for comment.

In interviews this week, Acorn officials said they had an extensive program to detect fraudulent applications, which included calling the registrants to verify information provided on the forms. They also said they had combed through electronic records from the group’s field offices across the country, and that their internal audit did not show evidence of pervasive voter registration fraud.

Most of the registrations that were rejected were duplicate forms, followed by incomplete forms. The Acorn officials said their investigation found about 9,000 voter registration cards that were determined to be fraudulent. A lawyer for the group estimated that perhaps 5,000 to 6,000 more cards employees turned in were fraudulent. Acorn officials said that 20 percent to 25 percent of the applications it submitted were likely duplicates, 5 percent were incomplete, and 1 percent to 1.5 percent were fraudulent. Mr. Slater said the estimates were based on past registration drives and a sampling of this one.

Acorn officials said they were unable to provide a state-by-state breakdown identifying where the fraudulent voter registrations were submitted, but a spokesman said that at least some bogus cards cropped up in all 18 states where the group had major registration drives. Acorn conducted smaller drives in three other states.

Mr. Kettenring, the Acorn spokesman, said the number of fraudulent cards did not vary widely from state to state, but he identified Acorn’s office in Gary, Ind., as a particular trouble spot. After Acorn officials identified the percentage of problematic cards to be “unsatisfactorily high,” they shut down the office for three weeks beginning in late August, and brought in new management and canvassers before reopening it.

The group also said it was forced to fire 829 of the 10,000 canvassers it hired during the election for job-related problems, including falsifying registration forms. Acorn officials say they pay canvassers an hourly wage and not by the number of forms they obtain.

Mr. Kettenring said Acorn intended to change the language on its Web site to reflect that 400,000 of the 1.3 million registration submissions would likely be rejected by election officials, but said the group did not intend to be misleading.

In Las Vegas, where state officials raided Acorn offices this month to seize records, the county registrar of voters, Harvard L. Lomax, said his workers had found hundreds of potentially fraudulent registrations beyond those identified by Acorn.

“What this has done is undermined confidence in the system, because voters don’t understand that we have checks and bounds,” Mr. Lomax said. “I’m confident in the integrity of elections here.”

Echoing other election officials, Mr. Lomax said registration fraud could be sharply reduced if registration workers were all volunteers. “I have a solution: Make it illegal to pay people to register to vote,” Mr. Lomax said. “Money is the root of evil.”

But Acorn officials say that paying workers helps their voter registration drives succeed in signing up large numbers of minority and low income voters.

Joseph Hickson, an automobile designer from Naples, Fla., who is registered as a Democrat, said the voter registration issue would be made moot by a large margin of victory for Mr. Obama.

“It really depends on how much of a landslide he has — if he has one,” Mr. Hickson said. “If it’s close there may be some questions.”

240 is Back

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2008, 07:51:15 AM »
Repubs suddenly give a shit about voter fraud.  It was okay in 2000 and 2004 though.

I wonder if these same folks were just as upset when Ohio refused to allow a recount of the paper ballots to ensure the correct person won Ohio ;)

tonymctones

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2008, 07:59:42 AM »
Repubs suddenly give a shit about voter fraud.  It was okay in 2000 and 2004 though.

I wonder if these same folks were just as upset when Ohio refused to allow a recount of the paper ballots to ensure the correct person won Ohio ;)
i wasnt on this board at that time but your saying that two wrongs make a right? that sounds about right

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 07:59:46 AM »
Repubs suddenly give a shit about voter fraud.  It was okay in 2000 and 2004 though.

I wonder if these same folks were just as upset when Ohio refused to allow a recount of the paper ballots to ensure the correct person won Ohio ;)

So much for hangin up the politics, huh 240? ;D

Historically Democrats have been far more guilty of committing various types of voter fraud.  The instances of Repubs doing the same isn't even close.

Last I remember the allegations of vote fraud in Ohio were only allegations and if Dems were allowed to challenge every time they lose a state based on no evidence they would do it in every one.  But Dem groups keep getting caught red-handed.

And look who paid Acorn $432,000 to register new voters for him..  wasn't McCain.

Decker

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2008, 08:14:11 AM »
So much for hangin up the politics, huh 240? ;D

Historically Democrats have been far more guilty of committing various types of voter fraud.  The instances of Repubs doing the same isn't even close.
Could you support these two statements with some facts?

Quote
Last I remember the allegations of vote fraud in Ohio were only allegations and if Dems were allowed to challenge every time they lose a state based on no evidence they would do it in every one.  But Dem groups keep getting caught red-handed....
When Mickey Mouse shows up to vote, then I'll take your accusations seriously.

Until then, these ACORN accusations are more of the same from the righwing trying to pull off another election fraud as they did in 2000 and 2004.  Gin up stories of 'vote fraud' and scrub the voter rolls of everyone they possibly can including thousands and thousands of legally registered voters.

That's how the right perpetrates election fraud...by preemptively accusing the competition of a crime and then 'fixing' that crime.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 04:24:52 PM »
Could you support these two statements with some facts?
When Mickey Mouse shows up to vote, then I'll take your accusations seriously.

Until then, these ACORN accusations are more of the same from the righwing trying to pull off another election fraud as they did in 2000 and 2004.  Gin up stories of 'vote fraud' and scrub the voter rolls of everyone they possibly can including thousands and thousands of legally registered voters.

That's how the right perpetrates election fraud...by preemptively accusing the competition of a crime and then 'fixing' that crime.

Here you go, dipshit:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1077707/Why-Mickey-Mouses-vote-Democrats-rebound-Obamas-chances-U-S-president.html

Pathetic.. you have to make up a fantasy just to keep believing your absurdities.  Everything your failing arguments accuse of being stolen was "alleged."  Meanwhile REAL voter fraud is, once again, being committed in the name of getting Barack Hussein Obama into office.

240 is Back

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 04:26:36 PM »
So much for hangin up the politics, huh 240? ;D

I promised myself if I avoided the place for those 2 weeks and got diet right, i'd check in with you guys.

Al Doggity

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2008, 04:43:07 PM »
E'rythang you need to know.

Quote
Most of the registrations that were rejected were duplicate forms, followed by incomplete forms. The Acorn officials said their investigation found about 9,000 voter registration cards that were determined to be fraudulent. A lawyer for the group estimated that perhaps 5,000 to 6,000 more cards employees turned in were fraudulent. Acorn officials said that 20 percent to 25 percent of the applications it submitted were likely duplicates, 5 percent were incomplete, and 1 percent to 1.5 percent were fraudulent.



Benny B

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2008, 05:22:20 PM »
Here you go, dipshit:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1077707/Why-Mickey-Mouses-vote-Democrats-rebound-Obamas-chances-U-S-president.html

Pathetic.. you have to make up a fantasy just to keep believing your absurdities.  Everything your failing arguments accuse of being stolen was "alleged."  Meanwhile REAL voter fraud is, once again, being committed in the name of getting Barack Hussein Obama into office.
There is a big difference between voter registration fraud and actual voter fraud.  ::)

You are a moron.
!

tu_holmes

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2008, 05:35:35 PM »
There is a big difference between voter registration fraud and actual voter fraud.  ::)

You are a moron.

The best is that ACORN found the fraudulent registrations... ACORN... You know, the people who are apparently committing the fraud.

::)

Decker

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2008, 09:10:27 PM »
Here you go, dipshit:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1077707/Why-Mickey-Mouses-vote-Democrats-rebound-Obamas-chances-U-S-president.html

Pathetic.. you have to make up a fantasy just to keep believing your absurdities.  Everything your failing arguments accuse of being stolen was "alleged."  Meanwhile REAL voter fraud is, once again, being committed in the name of getting Barack Hussein Obama into office.
I've slapped you around in so many threads that I'm fatigued.

Let's see.

An insult; a link to irrelevant 'proof; more insults; and a restatement of an unsupported conclusion.

By gum, this must be a post by Brixton Bulldog!

Where else does incompetence meet failure with such style?

Your stumbling and bumbling suits your "in your face" style of pointless blubbering.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2008, 09:30:03 PM »
I've slapped you around in so many threads that I'm fatigued.

Let's see.

An insult; a link to irrelevant 'proof; more insults; and a restatement of an unsupported conclusion.

By gum, this must be a post by Brixton Bulldog!

Where else does incompetence meet failure with such style?

Your stumbling and bumbling suits your "in your face" style of pointless blubbering.

Sure you have ;D

You're arguments are so weak you need two spotters.  Keep making as ass of yourself.. the more you marginalize your silly arguments the more you make the rest of us look like stephen hawkings, dumb ass.

shootfighter1

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2008, 07:56:49 AM »
"'30 percent of Acorn’s registrations were faulty"

Can we please suspend all tax-payer $ to this horrible organization....even the NYT is reporting massive voter fraud here.
How much time and $ is wasted on trying to police their own faulty process?  How many registrations slipped through?  This organization is a failure.  They must, at very least, stop paying by the # of people their workers register.  This is another black eye on American politics.

Rimbaud

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2008, 08:53:42 AM »
Repubs suddenly give a shit about voter fraud.  It was okay in 2000 and 2004 though.

I wonder if these same folks were just as upset when Ohio refused to allow a recount of the paper ballots to ensure the correct person won Ohio ;)

It's only fraud to them if they lose.

Straw Man

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2008, 09:48:58 AM »
Republicans are masters of WHOLESALE election fraud i.e. flipping large #'s of legitimate votes from Democrat to Repug.

They are also the masters of things like caging (often used on people in the military), purging legitimate voters in heavily democtratic districts and suppressing voter turnout via dirty tricks (callling people and telling them the voting date has changed), having too few voting machines in heavily democratic districts, etc.....


on the other hand you have Acorn hiring poor people and paying them by the name to sign up voters.   Those fake names don't turn into actual fraudulent votes becuase there is no individual attached to the fake name.   Its a FAKE issue meant to keep you distracted while the Repugs steal, suppress, and flip tens of thousands and maybe millions of legitimate votes

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2008, 10:09:40 AM »
Republicans are masters of WHOLESALE election fraud i.e. flipping large #'s of legitimate votes from Democrat to Repug.

They are also the masters of things like caging (often used on people in the military), purging legitimate voters in heavily democtratic districts and suppressing voter turnout via dirty tricks (callling people and telling them the voting date has changed), having too few voting machines in heavily democratic districts, etc.....


on the other hand you have Acorn hiring poor people and paying them by the name to sign up voters.   Those fake names don't turn into actual fraudulent votes becuase there is no individual attached to the fake name.   Its a FAKE issue meant to keep you distracted while the Repugs steal, suppress, and flip tens of thousands and maybe millions of legitimate votes


Sounds like a lot of "allegations" and little substance.

Straw Man

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2008, 10:19:14 AM »
Sounds like a lot of "allegations" and little substance.

there are plenty of sources. 

Here's one from a Repug


Brixtonbulldog

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2008, 10:21:35 AM »
there are plenty of sources. 

Here's one from a Repug



I'm sure it happens on both sides.  But no one can deny Dems are responsible for far more.

Al Doggity

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2008, 10:28:47 AM »
I'm sure it happens on both sides.  But no one can deny Dems are responsible for far more.

Anyone with common sense would deny that.


The article you linked isn't even about voter fraud. The majority of the cancelled registrations were duplicates or incomplete. It is not illegal to register more than once.

Meanwhile, the republicans actually manage to steal elections.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2008, 10:29:45 AM »
Anyone with common sense would deny that.


The article you linked isn't even about voter fraud. The majority of the cancelled registrations were duplicates or incomplete. It is not illegal to register more than once.

Meanwhile, the republicans actually manage to steal elections.

DUPLICATES.. that means REGISTERED MORE THAN ONCE

why would that happen?  hmm..

christ you guys are dumb

Al Doggity

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2008, 10:31:50 AM »
"'30 percent of Acorn’s registrations were faulty"

Can we please suspend all tax-payer $ to this horrible organization....even the NYT is reporting massive voter fraud here.
How much time and $ is wasted on trying to police their own faulty process?  How many registrations slipped through?  This organization is a failure.  They must, at very least, stop paying by the # of people their workers register.  This is another black eye on American politics.

Drama queen much? They don't receive federal funding. They don't pay by the registration either. Please learn to read. From the above article:


Quote
. Acorn officials say they pay canvassers an hourly wage and not by the number of forms they obtain

Straw Man

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2008, 10:33:57 AM »
I'm sure it happens on both sides.  But no one can deny Dems are responsible for far more.

I'm open to your opinion.

I'd like to see some evidence or even just some allegations of large scale ELECTION FRAUD from the Dems.

ELECTION FRAUD is how elections are truly stolen.

Election Fraud = theft on a large scale

Voter Fraud = theft of a very small scale

btw what the handful of people employed by Acorn did was not even voter fraud (i.e. casting a fraudulent vote).    I'd say it's unlikely that any of those fake names will show up to vote on election day.  They don't even exist.  It's just a fake name on a list so the employee can collect another $2.   It won't have any effect on the election (though to be clear I'm not advocating what they did)

Al Doggity

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2008, 10:34:25 AM »
DUPLICATES.. that means REGISTERED MORE THAN ONCE

why would that happen?  hmm..

christ you guys are dumb

If someone registered for the 2004 election and they register again for the 2008 elections it is considered a duplicate. That is what the article is referring to.

Even if someone is registered twice, they can still only vote once. There isn't even a logical trail to voter fraud from that.

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2008, 10:35:11 AM »
Drama queen much? They don't receive federal funding. They don't pay by the registration either. Please learn to read. From the above article:



Yes because we can depend on the SAME A HOLES THAT ARE COMMITTING THE FRAUD TO GIVE US THE WHOLE STORY.. right? ;D


Al Doggity

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Re: NY Times reports massive Acorn voter fraud
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2008, 10:36:33 AM »
Yes because we can depend on the SAME A HOLES THAT ARE COMMITTING THE FRAUD TO GIVE US THE WHOLE STORY.. right? ;D



Other than right wing dingbats, no one is really accusing  them of fraud.