Hormones=AMAZING !

[tbombz]

Nopes, I just don't care about science (of which its applicability or validity I can't check anyway), I only care about my experience. As I said, I wouldn't hit myself over the head with a hammer twice just because an egghead tells me it shouldn't have hurt the first time around.

I'm always willing to change my methods, if my experience shows me that something else works better. This is exactly the way I got to my current method over the past 10 years.

And yes, you have presented studies which show that increased protein intake during a diet improves body composition, and I never denied that. The only question is if there is a certain level at which further increase makes no sense anymore or even has negative effect on body composition. The study with the obese people indicates that such an upper level does not exist. Since my experience indicates otherwise, I can only assume that what works for the avarage, morbidely obese, physically inactive person just doesn't work for me.

So if you are so sure that a protein only diet is best for cutting, why don't you try it on your next cut? I would be interested in the results and your progress pics.

ok guy wy dont you go look at the pictures of me as a fatbody then me as a lean body

or check ou the bodybuilders you see on olympia stage in the 60's 70's and 80's... protein only + veggies + stagered carb ups is how most guys diet...its well known.. it works.. its perfect for fat loss... this shit aint new bro.. its old.. been aroun forever.. everybody knows about it..  why you can understand the basic fact that itw roks and how it wotrks... i dont know cuz you seem to be intelligent... but like i said earilier.. some guys just want to believe what they believe.. which is obvious about you because of the long ass debate usmokepole and willbrink had with you about supplements in the nutritio board where you were ownded a million times hardcore as fuck yet yu persisted with you bullcrapp

[Fatpanda]

The study with the obese people indicates that such an upper level does not exist. Since my experience indicates otherwise, I can only assume that what works for the avarage, morbidely obese, physically inactive person just doesn't work for me.

So if you are so sure that a protein only diet is best for cutting, why don't you try it on your next cut? I would be interested in the results and your progress pics.

perhaps you wern't taking in enough protein when you tried it?

i have tried it in the past - i lasted 7 days,  i got very weak, and was constantly craving food. however the fat loss was impressive.

a protein only diet is the best for maximum fat loss minimum muscle gain - in morbidly obese people yes, however if it works better in them than any other diet type for this reason, it stands to reason it would work for the aveage gym rat beter than any other too.

however it is not easy, nor pleasurable.

however as candy points out bodybuilders have been doing it like this since time began 

[wavelength]

ok guy wy dont you go look at the pictures of me as a fatbody then me as a lean body

or check ou the bodybuilders you see on olympia stage in the 60's 70's and 80's... protein only + veggies + stagered carb ups is how most guys diet...its well known.. it works.. its perfect for fat loss... this shit aint new bro.. its old.. been aroun forever.. everybody knows about it..  why you can understand the basic fact that itw roks and how it wotrks... i dont know cuz you seem to be intelligent... but like i said earilier.. some guys just want to believe what they believe.. which is obvious about you because of the long ass debate usmokepole and willbrink had with you about supplements in the nutritio board where you were ownded a million times hardcore as fuck yet yu persisted with you bullcrapp

tbombz, seriously, the redundancy of the english language fortunally is pretty high, but it takes an expert to decipher your posts.

Not one of my methods is based on what I believe. It's all based on my experience. What's so hard to understand about that? I have already tried everything you suggested. I was only critizised on my lack of knowledge in the field of nutritional science and the methods used there. I have never claimed that I have knowledge in that field. You both obviously have more knowledge there. And if what you think science suggests, works better for both of you, more power to you. In this case, I wouldn't do it otherwise too.

[wavelength]

perhaps you wern't taking in enough protein when you tried it?

i have tried it in the past - i lasted 7 days,  i got very weak, and was constantly craving food. however the fat loss was impressive.

a protein only diet is the best for maximum fat loss minimum muscle gain - in morbidly obese people yes, however if it works better in them than any other diet type for this reason, it stands to reason it would work for the aveage gym rat beter than any other too.

however it is not easy, nor pleasurable.

however as candy points out bodybuilders have been doing it like this since time began 

Too many "howevers" for my taste.
So the only reason you won't be using the protein only diet is because of your lack of willpower?

[tbombz]

i doubt youve tried it

try this


meal one = 8 ounce lean meat + veggies + fish oil

meal two repeats

meal three repeat

meal four repeat

meal five repeat
 
meal 6 repeat


do this three days in a row, then add in 50g carbs to each meal for one day, then repeat cycle.

do that for a few weeks THEN come back and we will talk.

[Fatpanda]

Too many "howevers" for my taste.
So the only reason you won't be using the protein only diet is because of your lack of willpower?

exactly, i didn't become fatpanda by having a strong will power, however  i have been known on occasion to get a steadfast determination now and again, and do things the correct way.

its not impossible to eat lean protein and veg, many people eat this way evryday.

with a little imagination and creativity in your preperations i'm sure most would be happy eating this way.

[wavelength]

i doubt youve tried it

try this


meal one = 8 ounce lean meat + veggies + fish oil

meal two repeats

meal three repeat

meal four repeat

meal five repeat
 
meal 6 repeat


do this three days in a row, then add in 50g carbs to each meal for one day, then repeat cycle.

do that for a few weeks THEN come back and we will talk.

Yes of course, I didn't do exactly that, but I have done a diet with high protein (mostly animal protein) and low fat, with occasional carb ups.

Have you ever done that and gone down to let's say below 8% bodyfat? Have you ever even been below 8%?

[tbombz]

Yes of course, I didn't do exactly that, but I have done a diet with high protein (mostly animal protein) and low fat, with occasional carb ups.

Have you ever done that and gone down to let's say below 8% bodyfat? Have you ever even been below 8%?

yeah i dieted that way, everytime i ever diet.  i dont do long diets however. just long enough to trim off excess fat and look somewhat decent again., im endo/meso naturally. i have alot of muscle to still put on my frame so i dont take a long diet to try to get to 8%, fuzzy abs is good enough for me, then i start gaining again.. no reason for me to be ripped up..     

[wavelength]

yeah i dieted that way, everytime i ever diet.  i dont do long diets however. just long enough to trim off excess fat and look somewhat decent again., im endo/meso naturally. i have alot of muscle to still put on my frame so i dont take a long diet to try to get to 8%, fuzzy abs is good enough for me, then i start gaining again.. no reason for me to be ripped up..     

Well as I said, if it works for you, more power to you. However, if you have always dieted that way, you don't really know if a different approach wouldn't work just as good if not even better. You can rely on what science suggests (at this time) of course, but I choose to rely on my experience instead. No biggie.

[wavelength]

exactly, i didn't become fatpanda by having a strong will power, however  i have been known on occasion to get a steadfast determination now and again, and do things the correct way.

its not impossible to eat lean protein and veg, many people eat this way evryday.

with a little imagination and creativity in your preperations i'm sure most would be happy eating this way.

Your lack of willpower sickens me.
I can only advise you to put up a progress thread, it's great self-motivation.

[tbombz]

Well as I said, if it works for you, more power to you. However, if you have always dieted that way, you don't really know if a different approach wouldn't work just as good if not even better. You can rely on what science suggests (at this time) of course, but I choose to rely on my experience instead. No biggie.

ok well i did try the anabolic diet which is hg fat weekdays and carb up weekends, but i was using it for mass when i was still a natural. that diet worked prtty damn good. i also tried the bgody opus diet, and used that for cutting, but that diet wasnt so great, fat loss was really slow.

[wavelength]

ok well i did try the anabolic diet which is hg fat weekdays and carb up weekends, but i was using it for mass when i was still a natural. that diet worked prtty damn good. i also tried the bgody opus diet, and used that for cutting, but that diet wasnt so great, fat loss was really slow.

Being natural is probably a factor also, you know more about that than me, since you have done both. I never claimed to have any knowledge about the applicability of the principles for non-naturals. I think TA believes that it doesn't matter, but from my experience, I have no idea.

[Camel Jockey]

Sevastese had to take drugs to look like a natural

[io856]

Sevastese had to take drugs to look like a natural

You took drugs to look like you go to a gym every couple of weeks.

[chaos]

You took drugs to look like you go to a gym every couple of weeks.

Cocaine isn't the same as steroids.

[bigguns23]

how do you know he has good genetics?


he could have went straight to mega doses and slin and in three years time anybody who goes straight to mega doses hard trianing and lots of food will beocme a monster... maybe if you know for a fact phil was only using minima amounts then you can say he has amazing genetics BUT you dont know.. phil could have average genetics...

How do you know he does alot of roids?

[tbombz]

How do you know he does alot of roids?

i dont, he could be on minimal amounts. that was the point. nobody knows. so saying "he has great genetics" is mute. you dont know that. all you, or anybody else for that matter, knows is that he has a GREAT PHYSIQUE.

[WillGrant]

if you don't gain muscle on 600mg of test a week, you are not human

Thats not the argument here dick snot..
Have you ever heard of diminishing returns?
You have just shot candy down with that comment BTW

'If you cant grow off 600mg a week , you are not human"

Fucking exactly,up to a gram of test , if you cant grow off that then give it up,this sperm puddle thinks you just bang it to 2 ,3 , 4 , 5 grams and pile in other compounds..Totaly clueless,and what makes it worse is the clown thinks kickbacks are better than close grip benches for mass on your triceps..smith deadlifts are superior to off the floor barbell deads the list goes on..

This is why steroids have such a bad rep...goofballs like him

[WillGrant]

i dont, he could be on minimal amounts. that was the point. nobody knows. so saying "he has great genetics" is mute. you dont know that. all you, or anybody else for that matter, knows is that he has a GREAT PHYSIQUE.

Then you just totaly fucked up your theory 

[ASJChaotic]

Thats not the argument here dick snot..
Have you ever heard of diminishing returns?
You have just shot candy down with that comment BTW

'If you cant grow off 600mg a week , you are not human"

Fucking exactly,up to a gram of test , if you cant grow off that then give it up,this sperm puddle thinks you just bang it to 2 ,3 , 4 , 5 grams and pile in other compounds..Totaly clueless,and what makes it worse is the clown thinks kickbacks are better than close grip benches for mass on your triceps..smith deadlifts are superior to off the floor barbell deads the list goes on..

This is why steroids have such a bad rep...goofballs like him

I agree
you can't just TAKE MORE and get bigger and bigger
if some guy was on 10 grams of test a week he wouldn't beat Ronnie Coleman now
or on 500mg of d-bol doesn't mean it's better than 50mg
steroids are drugs.... people with addiction should get help 

[Fatpanda]

Thats not the argument here dick snot..
Have you ever heard of diminishing returns?
You have just shot candy down with that comment BTW

'If you cant grow off 600mg a week , you are not human"

Fucking exactly,up to a gram of test , if you cant grow off that then give it up,this sperm puddle thinks you just bang it to 2 ,3 , 4 , 5 grams and pile in other compounds..Totaly clueless,and what makes it worse is the clown thinks kickbacks are better than close grip benches for mass on your triceps..smith deadlifts are superior to off the floor barbell deads the list goes on..

This is why steroids have such a bad rep...goofballs like him

hahahahaha what do i care if i just disagreed with candy - its not the first time and probably won't be the last.

i wasn't talking about candy, ronnie coleman or anyone in particular. i was talking about joe blow. And my opinion, i do not speak for candy, only myself.

if an average guy cannot grow on 600mg of test something is seriously wrong - and they need to look at other factors i.e. protein/calorie intake, training routine, volume, if gear is fake etc

yes i agree there is a law of diminishing returns, but 600mg is not the peak of the rainbow IMO. perhaps 1000mg is perhaps 2000mg.

I have no doubt a guy that weighs 250 at 5%bf will need more test than a guy at 200 at 5%bf - but there must be a cut off - although to be fair to candy i havn't found it in the literature.

whats your point ?

[WillGrant]

hahahahaha what do i care if i just disagreed with candy - its not the first time and probably won't be the last.

i wasn't talking about candy, ronnie coleman or anyone in particular. i was talking about joe blow. And my opinion, i do not speak for candy, only myself.

if an average guy cannot grow on 600mg of test something is seriously wrong - and they need to look at other factors i.e. protein/calorie intake, training routine, volume, if gear is fake etc

yes i agree there is a law of diminishing returns, but 600mg is not the peak of the rainbow IMO. perhaps 1000mg is perhaps 2000mg.

I have no doubt a guy that weighs 250 at 5%bf will need more test than a guy at 200 at 5%bf - but there must be a cut off - although to be fair to candy i havn't found it in the literature.

whats your point ?

OK you agree with me then,my point is when you quoted myself you were agreeing with Taylor..

i havn't found it in the literature

You wont as tests will not be done on hardcore BB.

Actualy the test you posted is flawed in many ways,of course 600mgs of genuine TE will destroy 20 , 50, 100 etc in "athletes" but like you say and in agreement with me , its not a case of ramping up doses to keep improving..it just goes to show candy needs to learn alot more about gear,the thread starter well we already know he is an idiot with little knowledge to how real AAS work..

I do give Candy credit, as much as I flame him (which is warrented with some of the shit he says) at least he is trying to learn..

 

[Fatpanda]

Actualy the test you posted is flawed in many ways,of course 600mgs of genuine TE will destroy 20 , 50, 100 etc in "athletes" but like you say and in agreement with me , its not a case of ramping up doses to keep improving..it just goes to show candy needs to learn alot more about gear,the thread starter well we already know he is an idiot with little knowledge to how real AAS work..

I do give Candy credit, as much as I flame him (which is warrented with some of the shit he says) at least he is trying to learn..

 

 

The paper i posted is not flawed, you are.

it neither agree's nor disagree with you or candy - it shows that muscle mass results ARE dose dependant on the amount of test taken ( at least up to 600mg a week as thats the highest they studied). however IMO there will be a ceiling at some level - although clearly in that paper 600mg has virtually no sides and much more muscle mass than say 300mg, candy may well still be correct, quite possibly we will never know.

[tbombz]

lol. will you are just looking for things to disagree with me on.

how does my post throw what i said out of the water? you cant KNOW phil has good genetics. he could be on minimal amounts and have good genetics or he could have poor genetics and be on shitloads.


i also agree 600mg is going to make anybody grow.  no shit. thats like 30 times the bodys natural production.  where did i ever say you cant grow off 600mg ?? lolol


when did i say there wasnt a point of "dminishing returns? " i didnt, however you cant prove that and most science would indicate that no such thing real exists... since the effects of mg of andro is exponential with increasing amounts..   do i need to explain to you all of the mechnisms through which AAS contribute to muscle growth, or would you like to just stop with your nonsense ?  hahah

[TacoBell]

Yes, I missed most of this thread, but Tbomz ur wrong, sorry.
For 90% of people, no amount or combination of drugs will turn someone into a pro level bodybuilder.