biceps question: machine work/isolation work vs free weights?

[First Blood]

what do you guys prefer...?

[First Blood]

my fav biceps exercies:

seated db curls on a preacher curl bench..but seated the other way around so i got my elbows stuck into the pad (i saw it on musculardevelopment TV...some old guy with huge arms was doing it that way...charlie arms i think they called him lol)

preacher curl machine

preacher curls with ez-bar

those are basically the only exercises i like for biceps....reg curls i dont feel much in my biceps..mostly just in front delts

i like kneeling curls in a cable machine too

i forgot i like concentration curls with dbs too..(elbow against the knee)

[First Blood]

quaker..lemme know what you think

[QuakerOats]

actually i like just regular old straight bar barbell curls with the long 7 foot Olympic bar and straight bar preacher curls, db curls don't really do much for me, i feel bb curls a lot more in my biceps.

[First Blood]

actually i like just regular old straight bar barbell curls with the long 7 foot Olympic bar and straight bar preacher curls, db curls don't really do much for me, i feel bb curls a lot more in my biceps.

dont they hurt your elbows and forearms..doing them with straight bar i mean?

when i started training i really liked wide grip straight bar curls..but they hurt my forearms and elbows so had to do  standing ez-bar curls instead..but never liked em...same thing with standing db curls...never felt them isolating the biceps

[First Blood]

do you guys think you can build big biceps using the exercies i mentioned?

[leonp1981]

Barbell curls are my fave exercise.

Incline db curls tend to hit the top of my forearms, just outside the elbow.

And for a good finish, one-arm db preachers, to failure, with negatives.

[Cap]

It's all preference but a lot of the guys I see with big torsos and arms tend to do a lot of cable work for arms; something that Quakeroats has mentioned a lot on here.  One guy I always see at the gym supersets cables for arm work and the guy has a around a legit 18" arm by my estimation.

[Bluto]

i havent found any good machines for biceps... seems unneccessary... i rather just do db/bb or perhaps even cables

[mass 04]

I think a mix is best. Heavy bb and db curls, then some machine and cable stuff to finish.

[mitchyboy]

Ez bar curls on an incline bench, facing backwards like a rear dumbell fly, arms hanging straight down and crimp the hell out of your bis If you do it right i guarantee you'll love it.

[pumpster]

I think a mix is best. Heavy bb and db curls, then some machine and cable stuff to finish.

That's the standard thinking, but also try going against preconceptions and consider cables for size. Go as heavy as possible for moderate 6-12 reps.


Debunking the Barbell Curl
Ronnie Coleman

I never advocate the use of the exercises cited as the kind of mass building for the biceps: the barbell curl.

Like everybody else, when I started bodybuilding, I waned bigger biceps, even tough I am blessed with good arm genetics. I though the route to follow was doing barbell curls, but my early experiences with that exercise taught me that although barbell curls allowed me to use heavy weights, the muscular stress caused by the poundage was in no way being applied 100% to my biceps. I believe that the heavy weights employed for barbell curls encourage the user to cheat through the exercise, perhaps without even knowing it. A person tends to bend the upper torso to let the momentum of the weight take over. In addition, instead of the biceps powering out the reps, forearms and front delts are called into play too much.

You must analyze what kind of development you are aiming for with your biceps training. You should seek full development in terms of thickness and fullness of your biceps muscle attachments, plus optimum accentuation of the biceps peaks. Those aspects are best achieved by exercises that isolate the biceps - ones that allow you to put maximum stress on your biceps throughout the completion of each set. Cheating on barbell curls means that at certain times during the course of a rep, the biceps are given an easy, if not free, ride.

Based on the preceding thought, I came to the conclusion that cable work provided the required dual facilities of isolating the biceps while allowing them to be under constant stress throughout the completion of each set. The latter element is particularly difficult to attain during the negative (descending) part of each rep. This is where cables score heavily. With cables, you can maintain muscular stress during the negative phase to an extent that is not mechanically possible with free weights.

Many authorities claim that cables are solely for advanced bodybuilders, in order 'to refine what they've already built.' I don't agree. Cable work allows you to attack the biceps with 100% concentration, and that sort of exclusive application will make the biceps grow. Muscle fibers don't know whether the stress is being applied by free weights or a machine; they respond only to the level of muscular stress being placed on them. Whatever does the job, will do the job!

Ez bar curls on an incline bench, facing backwards like a rear dumbell fly, arms hanging straight down and crimp the hell out of your bis  If you do it right i guarantee you'll love it.

Spider curls. I don't use em but they will hit your bis from a different, extreme angle.

[pumpster]

i havent found any good machines for biceps... seems unneccessary... i rather just do db/bb or perhaps even cables

Most biceps machines are in the mediocre to not bad range, thanks to mediocre designs. On the rare occasion where a superior machine's used, the result can be better than anything else. Here's an example, a custom-welded machine built in the 1970s before these machines were commercially available. Hercules Gym, lower east side NYC. Photo taken Oct. 2008.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z136/analogbass/IMG_2762.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z136/analogbass/IMG_2781.jpg

[Get Rowdy]

The only biceps machine i like is the this plate loaded preacher curl one at the place I train, and I wouldn't even say its superior to 1 arm db preachers.

Lots of good talk about cables for biceps, I may be underusing them.

There's sooo many different biceps exercises and variations of them, it's hard to not do too much volume.  I used to use about 5 biceps exercises per workout when I started, but now gotta limit it to 2 max.  Funny thing is, I have the exact opposite problem for triceps, I can't find many exercises that I like much for them.

[GoneAway]

Benefit of cables is constant tension and somewhat automically corrects form. For example, you can swing your arms back and forth as much as you want in a standing biceps curl with a traditional barbell and take the stress of your biceps, but with a cable, your biceps are always under virtually the same tension no matter what position your upperarms are in, and it takes away the help of any other musclegroup to move the weight.

[turnerg31]

IMHO I like to mix things up and try a variety of exercises. Instead of going into all the exercises that I like and what I think they accomplish I just want to address mass building as it applies to biceps. In my opinion, most recreational lifters are under the belief that when you get a good pump in the biceps that it means you are building the maximum amount of muscle. This belief leads to many lifters doing a lot of high rep exercises for biceps in an attempt to get that pump.  When I say high rep, I mean anything in the 10+ range.  Some of these same lifters will use low rep, high weight exercises for building back and leg mass.  My point is, what's the difference. When I was younger I used heavy weight, low reps to increase the mass of my biceps.  I would do straight bar curls for 6 reps and lower, per set.  In addition I would also throw in a couple of exercises in the 10 to 12 rep range to finish off my bi's.  My point is heavy weight to build mass applies to your biceps as well as your back and legs. Obviously different exercises work different for each individual so I won't say anybodies way is wrong. I'm just telling you what worked for me.  I'm 40 yrs old so the heavy stuff has died down a bit but I still maintain pretty good biceps mass and shape.  I've attached a couple of pics. Check it out.  Like I said, this is just my opinion.  Experiment and see what works for you and then go for it.  These pics were taken in 2001, 2005 and 2007. 

Pat

[mass 04]

big dude

[First Blood]

IMHO I like to mix things up and try a variety of exercises. Instead of going into all the exercises that I like and what I think they accomplish I just want to address mass building as it applies to biceps. In my opinion, most recreational lifters are under the belief that when you get a good pump in the biceps that it means you are building the maximum amount of muscle. This belief leads to many lifters doing a lot of high rep exercises for biceps in an attempt to get that pump.  When I say high rep, I mean anything in the 10+ range.  Some of these same lifters will use low rep, high weight exercises for building back and leg mass.  My point is, what's the difference. When I was younger I used heavy weight, low reps to increase the mass of my biceps.  I would do straight bar curls for 6 reps and lower, per set.  In addition I would also throw in a couple of exercises in the 10 to 12 rep range to finish off my bi's.  My point is heavy weight to build mass applies to your biceps as well as your back and legs. Obviously different exercises work different for each individual so I won't say anybodies way is wrong. I'm just telling you what worked for me.  I'm 40 yrs old so the heavy stuff has died down a bit but I still maintain pretty good biceps mass and shape.  I've attached a couple of pics. Check it out.  Like I said, this is just my opinion.  Experiment and see what works for you and then go for it.  These pics were taken in 2001, 2005 and 2007. 

Pat

very impressive guns you have! but to be honest i dont think it matters if you use 6 reps or 11 etc...as long as you get stronger in whatever rep range you choose to use (as long as you keep it under 15 reps or so)

[Emmortal]

Definitely agree with Trunerg, my arms respond best to lower reps and as heavy weight as I can go only doing about 3 exercises.

[vice1]

I like machines, more focus

[garebear]

IMHO I like to mix things up and try a variety of exercises. Instead of going into all the exercises that I like and what I think they accomplish I just want to address mass building as it applies to biceps. In my opinion, most recreational lifters are under the belief that when you get a good pump in the biceps that it means you are building the maximum amount of muscle. This belief leads to many lifters doing a lot of high rep exercises for biceps in an attempt to get that pump.  When I say high rep, I mean anything in the 10+ range.  Some of these same lifters will use low rep, high weight exercises for building back and leg mass.  My point is, what's the difference. When I was younger I used heavy weight, low reps to increase the mass of my biceps.  I would do straight bar curls for 6 reps and lower, per set.  In addition I would also throw in a couple of exercises in the 10 to 12 rep range to finish off my bi's.  My point is heavy weight to build mass applies to your biceps as well as your back and legs. Obviously different exercises work different for each individual so I won't say anybodies way is wrong. I'm just telling you what worked for me.  I'm 40 yrs old so the heavy stuff has died down a bit but I still maintain pretty good biceps mass and shape.  I've attached a couple of pics. Check it out.  Like I said, this is just my opinion.  Experiment and see what works for you and then go for it.  These pics were taken in 2001, 2005 and 2007. 

Pat

Hard to argue with that kind of success.

[turnerg31]

very impressive guns you have! but to be honest i dont think it matters if you use 6 reps or 11 etc...as long as you get stronger in whatever rep range you choose to use (as long as you keep it under 15 reps or so)

I beg to differ with you on that my friend.  You should give it a try.  Hitting a weight that you can only complete six times as compared to 11 is a big difference.  Especially when you're talking about Biceps.  It's not a big difference, it's a huge difference. 

Don't even do a workout with the weight just go in the gym and test yourself to see what weight you can do for 6 and then see what it is for 11.  Oh yeah, it makes a difference. I bet you wouldn't say that if we were talking about training Pecs.  There is a big difference in the training effect of those two weight and rep ranges. IMHO

Pat

[turnerg31]

I usually do one exercise using the heavy weights.  The two, sometimes three, subsequent exercises are usually in the higher rep range of 10 to 12.  Some people like to call them shaping exercises. (cables, machine preacher, concentration)  I like to mix things up so I don't do the same thing all the time. Sometimes I like to do very high rep training on all my biceps exercises just to get that pump we're all looking for.  When I'm working on building Mass I always go back to the low reps, heavy weight, just like you do with all your major muscle groups.  Like I said earlier, different things work better for different people.  One thing I didn't mention is that when training biceps and using extremely heavy weight you have to be very careful. I don't recommend using heavy weight at the expense of form and technique.  You definitely don't want to tear a bicep.  Keep the form strict and the weight high, get a proper warm up and make sure you're using an accurate weight that you can hit in your target rep range. At least for me, this seemed to work wonders. 

Pat

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

Hard to argue with that kind of success.

he knows his own body vs you not knowing what works SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU......

[turnerg31]

he knows his own body vs you not knowing what works SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU......

Man, you hit the nail on the head. I can't really say what works best for you.  I hate when people do that. I can speak in general terms but the bottome line is try out various ways of getting it done and do what works best for you.  I agree 100%  I do like hearing what others have to say and sometimes I may jump in with a disagreement or two but it always goes back to "Do what works for you." 

Pat