Author Topic: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...  (Read 7660 times)

24KT

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2008, 01:52:29 AM »

The question was, should incestuous relationships be granted the right to marry if it makes them happy?

They already have it. Have you looked at the Royal family lately?... any royal family?
...not to mention all the residents of Arkansas and Appalachia?  ;D
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Benny B

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2008, 01:53:37 AM »
Some moral values should always be protected. Yes we live in a free society, but we do not live in a society that permits us to do whatever we want because we love it or enjoy it or want to do it.
Of course. Which is precisely my point.Why is should incest be illegal and sodomy be legal?

The supporters of the travesty of homo "marriage" should also agree that a woman should be able to marry her brother if they love each other and are consenting adults, no?
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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2008, 02:07:18 AM »
They already have it. Have you looked at the Royal family lately?... any royal family?
...not to mention all the residents of Arkansas and Appalachia?  ;D

Ha ha, that was kind of funny ;D

But my question still remains the same. Supporters want gays to be afforded the right to marry, basically because it makes them happy as it does a straight couple. By that thinking, anyone should be allowed to marry anyone they want...which is obviously ridiculous.

If my neighbor a 38 year old man was in love with a 15 year old girl and she was equally in love with him. Even though underage marriage is illegal without parental consent, should they be allowed to marry anyway?

If my other neighbor is practicing incest with his sister, and wants to legaly marry her, should he be allowed to?

From the sound of the pro gay marriage crowed, arguing that either one of the instances above shouldn't be allowed to marry makes no sense. But I can pretty much guarantee you that if there were topics like this on a ballot for allowing the two examples above the legal right to marry, almost everyone would be against it, even homosexuals. Why, because it's wrong, and some things in life are simply wrong.

Right is right, wrong is wrong. No matter how you look at it, no matter how you justify it, wrong is always and will always be wrong.



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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2008, 02:15:02 AM »
Ha ha, that was kind of funny ;D

But my question still remains the same. Supporters want gays to be afforded the right to marry, basically because it makes them happy as it does a straight couple. By that thinking, anyone should be allowed to marry anyone they want...which is obviously ridiculous.

If my neighbor a 38 year old man was in love with a 15 year old girl and she was equally in love with him. Even though underage marriage is illegal without parental consent, should they be allowed to marry anyway?

If my other neighbor is practicing incest with his sister, and wants to legaly marry her, should he be allowed to?

From the sound of the pro gay marriage crowed, arguing that either one of the instances above shouldn't be allowed to marry makes no sense. But I can pretty much guarantee you that if there were topics like this on a ballot for allowing the two examples above the legal right to marry, almost everyone would be against it, even homosexuals. Why, because it's wrong, and some things in life are simply wrong.

Right is right, wrong is wrong. No matter how you look at it, no matter how you justify it, wrong is always and will always be wrong.


Agreed! And discrimination against gays & lesbians is just plain wrong!  :)
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drkaje

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2008, 04:35:07 AM »
Ha ha, that was kind of funny ;D

But my question still remains the same. Supporters want gays to be afforded the right to marry, basically because it makes them happy as it does a straight couple. By that thinking, anyone should be allowed to marry anyone they want...which is obviously ridiculous.

If my neighbor a 38 year old man was in love with a 15 year old girl and she was equally in love with him. Even though underage marriage is illegal without parental consent, should they be allowed to marry anyway?

If my other neighbor is practicing incest with his sister, and wants to legaly marry her, should he be allowed to?

From the sound of the pro gay marriage crowed, arguing that either one of the instances above shouldn't be allowed to marry makes no sense. But I can pretty much guarantee you that if there were topics like this on a ballot for allowing the two examples above the legal right to marry, almost everyone would be against it, even homosexuals. Why, because it's wrong, and some things in life are simply wrong.

Right is right, wrong is wrong. No matter how you look at it, no matter how you justify it, wrong is always and will always be wrong.




AJ,

Nothing is ever wrong in America.

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2008, 05:30:30 AM »


Keith is brilliant. You just have to sit there and stare in amazement at how easily his thoughts come out.

Brilliant!

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2008, 05:35:30 AM »
AJ,

Nothing is ever wrong in America.

Wanna know something? Movements like Prop 8 would NEVER even be hinted to be given a chance of any air time were we not in one of the worst economic slumps in the history of the country and the religious groups were now on the way out of the White House. This was planned yeeeeears ago.

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2008, 05:36:57 AM »
I HATE GOD.

FUCK HIM.

MCWAY

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2008, 05:54:13 AM »
Justify it all you want til the cows come home, ...it's still wrong.  >:(

No, it ain't. Per the Supreme Court's ruling 35 years ago, 1M-1W marriage laws DO NOT RUN AFOUL of the U.S. Constitution (make all the frownie faces you want; it doesn't change that fact).

Wanna know something? Movements like Prop 8 would NEVER even be hinted to be given a chance of any air time were we not in one of the worst economic slumps in the history of the country and the religious groups were now on the way out of the White House. This was planned yeeeeears ago.

The reason Prop. 8 is getting all the air times is because gay activists are acting a fool, due to its passage. Florida and Arizona passed their respective amendments. But, it's not getting the same coverage. Then again, those measure wer proactive. They were passed to keep what happened in California, six months ago, from happening there.

well, not exactly.  while any form of adultery was illegal in some states at one time, today it is not illegal for two consenting adults to have sex, even if they are related.   and if there were hundreds or thousands of related adults wanting the protection afforded by marriage, we might have to consider it.  but there aren't any significant number of related adults in such relationships, while there are millions of same sex couples already in committed long term relationships.     also, people who are related already have some of the protections of marriage, such as visitation rights, automatic inheritance, some social security benefits, etc.



That's not exactly true, Tim. You can legally marry your first or second cousin in many states. But that's as close as it gets.

Ha ha, that was kind of funny ;D

But my question still remains the same. Supporters want gays to be afforded the right to marry, basically because it makes them happy as it does a straight couple. By that thinking, anyone should be allowed to marry anyone they want...which is obviously ridiculous.

If my neighbor a 38 year old man was in love with a 15 year old girl and she was equally in love with him. Even though underage marriage is illegal without parental consent, should they be allowed to marry anyway?

If my other neighbor is practicing incest with his sister, and wants to legaly marry her, should he be allowed to?

From the sound of the pro gay marriage crowed, arguing that either one of the instances above shouldn't be allowed to marry makes no sense. But I can pretty much guarantee you that if there were topics like this on a ballot for allowing the two examples above the legal right to marry, almost everyone would be against it, even homosexuals. Why, because it's wrong, and some things in life are simply wrong.

Right is right, wrong is wrong. No matter how you look at it, no matter how you justify it, wrong is always and will always be wrong.


You're exactly right. In fact, that's the argument that polygamists make. If gays can change the gender rule, why can't they change the numbers rule? By their logic, gay activists who are against polygamy are just as "bigoted" and "hateful" as they claim heteros (who believe marriage is a 1M-1W union) are against them.

Furthermore, antagonists of marriage amendments, when confronted with the issue or marriage being about procreation, love to talk about how hetero couple who can't or won't have kids should be banned from getting hitched. But, incestuous couples can have kids (although, there's a HUGE risk of those kids being deformed).

But, aren't these gay "marriage" supporters being "bigoted" and "hateful" by denying incestous couples the right to be married and have retarded kids? After all, they're in a "loving, committed relationship". Same goes for those pedophile types. How dare these gay activists and their supporters deny them the "right" to love underage children!!!!

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2008, 06:01:07 AM »
Agreed! And discrimination against gays & lesbians is just plain wrong!  :)
What about hillibillys and pedophiles? 

Nobody can really argue Benny's points because if the logic is that two gays are consenting people, why should any other relationship be different?
Squishy face retard

drkaje

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2008, 06:13:18 AM »
Wanna know something? Movements like Prop 8 would NEVER even be hinted to be given a chance of any air time were we not in one of the worst economic slumps in the history of the country and the religious groups were now on the way out of the White House. This was planned yeeeeears ago.

It's worst than that. We're all hypocrites and have literally memorized two verses from the bible "judge not, lest ye be judges" and the one about 'whosoever among you without sin cast the first stone' and used them to excuse any bad behavior. Now nothing's wrong, even being a child molester isn't wrong in some circles.

Personally, I have no clue if being a homosexual is morally wrong. Beyond any doubt, it must have been 'wrong' in biblical times much the same as pulling out was. Not having children (being fruitful) when the Jews were so outnumbered couldn't have been seen as anything but wrong and considered thwarting the will of God. Having children was so important that multiple wives made sense and even in cases where God said 'wait until I'm ready for you to have kids' people wouldn't listen (e.g. Sarah).

Considering how overpopulated the world is now and the extent to which society has changed regarding having children (except retards like the Duggars) it's a very backwards to interpret the Bible in a very literal manner and ignore the context in which the original text was written. People who are married generally end up having children but children aren't the principle reason for marriage in today's society. In biblical times people generally didn't marry for love.

IMO, the shift towards fundamentalism reflects a rejection of the modern world because people can't make sense of their spiritual place in it. In some ways, our own fundamentalists are about 50 years behind the suicide bombers who would do anything to impose Koranic rule upon the world so it would make sense to them.

MCWAY

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2008, 06:48:56 AM »
It's worst than that. We're all hypocrites and have literally memorized two verses from the bible "judge not, lest ye be judges" and the one about 'whosoever among you without sin cast the first stone' and used them to excuse any bad behavior. Now nothing's wrong, even being a child molester isn't wrong in some circles.

Personally, I have no clue if being a homosexual is morally wrong. Beyond any doubt, it must have been 'wrong' in biblical times much the same as pulling out was. Not having children (being fruitful) when the Jews were so outnumbered couldn't have been seen as anything but wrong and considered thwarting the will of God. Having children was so important that multiple wives made sense and even in cases where God said 'wait until I'm ready for you to have kids' people wouldn't listen (e.g. Sarah).

Considering how overpopulated the world is now and the extent to which society has changed regarding having children (except retards like the Duggars) it's a very backwards to interpret the Bible in a very literal manner and ignore the context in which the original text was written. People who are married generally end up having children but children aren't the principle reason for marriage in today's society. In biblical times people generally didn't marry for love.

IMO, the shift towards fundamentalism reflects a rejection of the modern world because people can't make sense of their spiritual place in it. In some ways, our own fundamentalists are about 50 years behind the suicide bombers who would do anything to impose Koranic rule upon the world so it would make sense to them.

You make great points.

People married for love. However, as an old song says "Your love give me such a thrill; but your love don't pay my bills!!!". Material care was TOP priority in marriage (food, shelter, clothes, gainful employment, etc). Remember that Jacob loved Rachel so much, he worked 7 years to pay the dowry for her. I don't doubt that, if guy and a gal loved each other, they politicked with their parents to seal the deal.

You mentioned "pulling out". That corresponds to the story of Judah and Tamar. Judah's eldest son, Er, married Tamar. Er died without having any kids. By Jewish law, if a man died without having kids, the Redeemer clause kicked into gear. The oldest non-married male relative (usually the brother of the deceased) married the widow and had children. That firstborn son (or daughter if there were no sons) was regarded at that of the dead brother, to keep his name alive.

Onan, Er's younger brother, was tasked with redeeming Tamar, which he agreed to do. But, while he kept screwing her, he wouldn't impregnate her. Why? GREED AND SELFISHNESS. Onan controlled Er's property, as long as there was no heir. But, once he produced a child with Tamar (and that child turned 20), the property goes to the new descendant. And if Judah died before that goes down, Judah's property went to Onan's younger brother, potentially leaving Onan out in the cold. Onan's actions were tantamount to abuse, in the ancient world. To deny children to a grieving widow, after agreeing to redeem her was deplorable (which might explain why Onan ended up DEAD!!).

I don't there is a rejection of the modern world. But, there is, in many circles, a rejection of the modern morals (or lack thereof) in the world, as such has lead to unspeakable horrors, which were unthinkable just a few decades ago.

BTW, what's with the blast on the Duggar family? The way I see it, as long as you're married can provide for them, have all the babies you want. Forget Viagra, Enzyte, and all that other mess. Guys who need "male enhancement" need to take whatever Jim Duggar's consuming. At last count, the Duggars were up to 18 kids (although, at least two of them are grown by now)?

As for homosexuality, it's safe to say that the idea of it being immoral and perverse transcends race, creed, political parties, religions, and historical time periods. Based on that, the burden falls on the gay community to show that such is not only morally sound but a benefit for society at large, overall. That's one tough nut to crack.


drkaje

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2008, 07:03:33 AM »
Burdening the older children with childcare makes no sense, to me. Also, I find it pretty hard to believe he is supporting them on a single income without all the whoring the family out on television and so on.

Ultimately, I'd argue that society itself has already redefined marriage.

Arnold jr

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2008, 07:57:07 AM »
Agreed! And discrimination against gays & lesbians is just plain wrong!  :)

You're still completely ignoring my question. I'm not trying to be difficult, but you keep skirting around my question. And it's a question that should be relatively easy to answer if your views are as you say they are.

Dan-O

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2008, 08:05:58 AM »
Keith is brilliant. You just have to sit there and stare in amazement at how easily his thoughts come out.

Brilliant!

snore

But seriously--his thoughts come out so easily because there's no freakin filter between his addled brain, his bleeding heart and his big mouth.  What's so amazing about that?

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2008, 08:15:03 AM »
snore

But seriously--his thoughts come out so easily because there's no freakin filter between his addled brain, his bleeding heart and his big mouth.  What's so amazing about that?

That is your opinion and nothing more.

And if you are inquiring as to what I think makes his speeches so good is because he makes understanding the central point.

As opposed to the Mick crowd (O'Reilly, Hannity and Limbaugh) preaching hate and to be fearful of everything that is not like them.


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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2008, 08:42:37 AM »
That is your opinion and nothing more.

And if you are inquiring as to what I think makes his speeches so good is because he makes understanding the central point.

As opposed to the Mick crowd (O'Reilly, Hannity and Limbaugh) preaching hate and to be fearful of everything that is not like them.



It's also my opinion that Olbermann's an arrogant, condescending prick.  Let me just throw that in for the record. :)

I understood him just fine, I will grant you that, he was very understandable.  It's just that his little demagogic rant was so schmaltzy and maudlin and really nothing more than thinly veiled political posturing, as I stated earlier in this thread.  Quite frankly it's an insult to the intelligence of anyone listening to it.

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2008, 08:58:18 AM »
If gay activists want to yap about hypocrisy, bigotry, and hatred, some of them may want to find the nearest mirror, particularly the white ones. Many black homos and lesbians will be the first to tell you that racism is ALIVE AND WELL among white gays.

WARNING!!!!! The following article uses language that some may deem "homophobic" and/or "racist". This is not meant to insult, but to reflect the words, quoted by the people in question.

Anti-Prop. 8 Activists Aim Racial Slurs at California African-Americans - Both Homosexual and Straight[/b]

SACRAMENTO, California, November 12, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Amid the rampant homosexualist protests in California, following the victory of Proposition 8, reports are pouring into homosexual blogs of same-sex "marriage" supporters directing their bile against the African-American community, aiming racist and threatening remarks even against blacks who are themselves homosexual. 

Exit polls showed that African-Americans supported Proposition 8, the true marriage ballot measure, 70% to 30%. 

One reader of Rod 2.0, a leading gay blog by an African-American, reported that when he joined the large homosexual protest outside Westwood's Mormon Temple, protesters called him a "n*&#@&" at least twice.

"It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing Abercrombie polos and Birkenstocks," wrote the commenter. 

"YOU black, one man shouted at men (sic). If your people want to call me a F(@*#&, I will call you a n(*@&!. Someone else said same thing to me on the next block near the temple ... me and my friend were walking, he is also gay but Korean, and a young WeHo clone said after last night the blacks better not come to West Hollywood if they knew what was BEST for them."
 
Another African-American reader from Los Angeles reports that he and his boyfriend, also black, were harassed about their race despite their prominently carrying "No on 8" signs.

"Three older men accosted my friend and shouted, 'Black people did this, I hope you people are happy!'" he relates. 

When the man pointed out the sign he carried, "One of the older men said it didn't matter because 'most black people hated gays' and he was 'wrong' to think we had compassion,'" he says.  "I guess he never thought we were gay."

Jasmyne Cannick, another popular African-American homosexual blogger, said last week that within three days of Proposition 8's victory she received several calls from homosexual and straight blacks who described being called “n*@&(!” and "being accosted in their cars and told that it was because of 'you people gays don’t have equal rights and you better watch your back.'"......

In response, Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., told LifeSiteNews.com that "it is absolutely no secret that African Americans support the sanctity of life and marriage," adding that this fact is "something that America needs to know."

Blacks support the true definition of marriage rather than "equal rights" for homosexual unions, King said, because homosexual "marriage" is not a legitimate civil rights issue - contrary to some who say blacks have hypocritically abandoned the fight for equal protection under law.

"Certainly and obviously procreative marriage - between one man and woman - is God's best plan for raising children," said King.  "We as African Americans cannot possibly be missing the boat by understanding that the sanctity of marriage is the best way to be sure that the human race thrives." 

Anti-marriage protesters have also attracted media attention for targeting individual supporters of Proposition 8.

Scott Eckern of the California Musical Theatre, a true marriage supporter, resigned from his position as artistic director when homosexual "marriage" advocates began attacking Eckern and boycotting the theater.  Eckhern had privately donated $1000 to the "Yes on 8" campaign.[/i]

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111212.html


MCWAY

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2008, 09:08:59 AM »
Burdening the older children with childcare makes no sense, to me. Also, I find it pretty hard to believe he is supporting them on a single income without all the whoring the family out on television and so on.

Ultimately, I'd argue that society itself has already redefined marriage.

That happens all the time, in famlies with mutiple kids. The older ones help take care of the younger ones. Ask anyone here who has younger brothers or sisters (by at least 5 years), and they'll tell you the same thing.

As for Jim Duggar's income, if I'm not mistaken, he's a self-made millionaire and former state Congressman. He's had plenty of money, prior to that TV show, chronicling their life.

Have you seen the size of their house? It's HUGE!!!! Their laundry room looks like a public laundromat.

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2008, 09:50:02 AM »
That is your opinion and nothing more.

And if you are inquiring as to what I think makes his speeches so good is because he makes understanding the central point.

As opposed to the Mick crowd (O'Reilly, Hannity and Limbaugh) preaching hate and to be fearful of everything that is not like them.


Preaching hate? You mean like the "hate", described in the article I protested earlier?



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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2008, 10:07:00 AM »
Im not familiar with all aspects of prop 8 but does it outlaw civil unions as well? Im not for defining marriage as anything other than between a man and a woman however I do believe that these ppl deserve the same rights as anybody else. Olbierman is a HUGE and i mean HUGE jackass, the fact that he quotes the ignorant 50% divorce rate just affirms my belief of this...ps whoever put this guy on the football pregame show should be drug out into the streets and beat with rubber hoses until his is dead too...sorry just my honest opinion.

No, all Prop 8 does is define the word "Marriage".

The gay lobby in Cali tries to make it into issues other than what it really is.

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2008, 10:53:05 AM »
Of course. Which is precisely my point.Why is should incest be illegal and sodomy be legal?

The supporters of the travesty of homo "marriage" should also agree that a woman should be able to marry her brother if they love each other and are consenting adults, no?

You are a bizarre creature; a hardcore Obama guy and a vitriolic homophobe; I have to admit, it is a unique combination. ::)

Siblings should be able to marry each other and in France they can for example. None of my business.
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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2008, 01:54:53 PM »
You are a bizarre creature; a hardcore Obama guy and a vitriolic homophobe; I have to admit, it is a unique combination. ::)
You probably know a lot about hugging nuts, kid.  ::) Especially since no Asian woman wants you.

What is the contradiction in not supporting homo marriage as a supporter of Barack Obama? Obama does not support marriage between homos either.

Quote
Siblings should be able to marry each other and in France they can for example. None of my business.
Fine. Then put that on the ballot in the same proposition as gay marriage and let the people vote on it.
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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2008, 02:17:59 PM »
You probably know a lot about hugging nuts, kid.  ::) Especially since no Asian woman wants you.

What is the contradiction in not supporting homo marriage as a supporter of Barack Obama? Obama does not support marriage between homos either.
Fine. Then put that on the ballot in the same proposition as gay marriage and let the people vote on it.

You are a disgusting 'kid' (I am older than you). You scream about racism as a black man and join in with the hate against gay people. Laughable. Did some gay guy hit on you once to piss you off?  ::)
I hate the State.

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Re: Pretty moving speech by Olberman on Prop. 8 and Religious maniacs...
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2008, 02:34:22 PM »
You are a disgusting 'kid' (I am older than you). You scream about racism as a black man and join in with the hate against gay people. Laughable. Did some gay guy hit on you once to piss you off?  ::)

Gays are not a separate race.