Is there anything original in the Jesus story?

[loco]

Luke,

How's Bigfoot?

[The Luke]

McWay,


Would you be willing to partake in a little experiment that might better illuminate why your Google-fu has mislead you?


The Luke

[gcb]

all hail our saviour Horus Jesus

[loco]

all hail our saviour Horus Jesus

Exactly, Horus ain't Jesus and Jesus ain't Horus.   

[gcb]

Exactly, Horus ain't Jesus and Jesus ain't Horus.   

You're right - they're too entirely different myths concocted with the same parts

[loco]

You're right - they're too entirely different myths concocted with the same parts

gcb,

Exactly which parts are the same?  Will you please show us?

[MCWAY]

McWay,


Would you be willing to partake in a little experiment that might better illuminate why your Google-fu has mislead you?


The Luke

I see you're still looking for excuses to cover the fact that Stellar Productions basically threw you a curveball, by using a fertility symbol, in its foolish attempt to claim that Jesus Christ was crafted from Horus.

Lost in all of this is the simple fact that Horus was neither conceived, nor did he live or die in the manner in which Jesus Christ did. And, as far as resurrection goes, he joins a long list of figures who just don't fit the bill.

[The Luke]

McWay,


Would you be willing to partake in a little experiment that might better illuminate why your Google-fu has mislead you?


The Luke

...repeat.

[gcb]

gcb,

Exactly which parts are the same?  Will you please show us?

read it if you dare:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm

[loco]

read it if you dare:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm

I read that two years ago.  What about it?

Exactly which parts are the same?  Can you back up the thoughts expressed on that website, since you don't have any thoughts of your own?

[The Luke]

I read that two years ago.  What about it?

Exactly which parts are the same?  Can you back up the thoughts expressed on that website, since you don't have any thoughts of your own?

...which parts aren't?

There is so little differece between Horus and Jesus that the plagiarism is obvious... you guys are the ones pointing to Jesus' yamika shouting: "Look! Look! Our guy has a funny hat! That makes him different!"

All these silly selective-encyclopedia-sampling protestations are just dishonest.

Jesus is about as original as a scene-for-scene Hollywood remake.


The Luke

[loco]

...which parts aren't?

There is so little differece between Horus and Jesus that the plagiarism is obvious... you guys are the ones pointing to Jesus' yamika shouting: "Look! Look! Our guy has a funny hat! That makes him different!"

All these silly selective-encyclopedia-sampling protestations are just dishonest.

Jesus is about as original as a scene-for-scene Hollywood remake.


The Luke

Epic evasion, Luke!

I took your challenge and cited, not just one, but two things about Jesus.  So I'm still waiting. 

1. Show me that Esus(Hesus) died by crucifixion. 

2. Show me that Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount was plagiarized from Buddhism.

You can't show us because you just made these up.

[The Luke]

Epic evasion, Luke!

I took your challenge and cited, not just one, but two things about Jesus.  So I'm still waiting. 

1. Show me that Esus(Hesus) died by crucifixion. 

2. Show me that Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount was plagiarized from Buddhism.

You can't show us because you just made these up.

1. Ask yourself, what did the followers of Esus/Hesus do every Easter? Then ask yourself, why did the Emperor Constantine fold the fledgling cult of Hesus into the Christian cult?

2. Google: "sermon on the mount Buddhism" it's not that difficult.


The Luke 

[gcb]

I read that two years ago.  What about it?

Exactly which parts are the same?  Can you back up the thoughts expressed on that website, since you don't have any thoughts of your own?

You don't know me or what I think. If you can't read and compare that is not my fault. If you can't deal with reality that isn't my fault either. No one is going to take your Jesus away from you - but when you get in an argument with the big boys expect a history lesson that doesn't always quite match up with your expectations/beliefs. And don't accuse me of not having my own thoughts - at least my thoughts come from more than one source.

[loco]

You don't know me or what I think. If you can't read and compare that is not my fault. If you can't deal with reality that isn't my fault either. No one is going to take your Jesus away from you - but when you get in an argument with the big boys expect a history lesson that doesn't always quite match up with your expectations/beliefs. And don't accuse me of not having my own thoughts - at least my thoughts come from more than one source.

The big boys?  LOL

Okay big boy, Jesus was born on December 25th?  Says who?  Not the Bible and not Christians.  That's just a Roman Catholic tradition.

That whole list is such a mess I don't know where to start.  Horus did not die by crucifixion.  Horus did not have 12 disciples.  Horus was not born of a virgin.

Jesus did not have just 12 disciples.  Jesus had many disciples while he was here in this world.  He hand picked 12 Apostles for a reason, one for each of the 12 tribes of Israel.  The 12 tribes of Israel go way back, thousands of year before Jesus Christ.

Who am I debating here, you or the website you posted?  Got anything original?  Got any thoughts and opinions of your own?

[loco]

1. Ask yourself, what did the followers of Esus/Hesus do every Easter? Then ask yourself, why did the Emperor Constantine fold the fledgling cult of Hesus into the Christian cult?

2. Google: "sermon on the mount Buddhism" it's not that difficult.


The Luke 

You are the one who challenged me.  You are the one who claimed you would show me.  So show me already and stop with the evation.  I'm still waiting.

Esus/Hesus did not die by crucifixion.

Jesus Christ's sermon on the mount did not come from Buddhism.

[The Luke]

You are the one who challenged me.  You are the one who claimed you would show me.  So show me already and stop with the evation.  I'm still waiting.

Esus/Hesus did not die by crucifixion.

Jesus Christ's sermon on the mount did not come from Buddhism.

This thread is running in circles...

It's really very simple, there is not a single original aspect or detail of the Jesus story that cannot be found in a previous religion.

If the detail is NOT obvious in another Mystery Religion solar deity (ie: plagiarised word for word); then a direct parallel will be found in the Horus story; if the analagous detail in the Horus story differs too much for your liking... then an exact copy of every single detail of the Jesus story can be found in the story of the Kashmiri wise-man/messiah Issa (except for the bodily ascension into heaven; but that's a common pagan motif).

You guys keep harping on about the Sermon on the Mount and execution via Roman-style crucifixion (as if the other manners of crucifixion are so vastly different as to make Jesus wholly original). But what about Issa?

Issa gave the same "Sermon on the Mount" that Jesus gave, at the same time, in the same place.

Issa was crucified by the Romans under Pilate, in Jerusalem circa 33 AD.

Issa died and resurrected.

The only difference between Issa and Jesus is what happens after the resurrection... Jesus ascends bodily into heaven, Issa retires to Kashmir where he dies at a ripe old age.

Issa even claimed TO BE the person known to the Christians as Jesus, and he made this claim during his lifetime... long before the Christian gospels were written/plagiarised/fabricated.


One of the twelve disciples (think it was Thomas) even met Issa at a wedding in Kashmir circa 50 AD and recognised him as Jesus... even recording it in his gospel.



So there you go... copied from a Mystery Religion; based on Horus; or actually Issa.

Not one single original detail.


The Luke

[gcb]

The big boys?  LOL

Okay big boy, Jesus was born on December 25th?  Says who?  Not the Bible and not Christians.  That's just a Roman Catholic tradition.

That whole list is such a mess I don't know where to start.  Horus did not die by crucifixion.  Horus did not have 12 disciples.  Horus was not born of a virgin.

Jesus did not have just 12 disciples.  Jesus had many disciples while he was here in this world.  He hand picked 12 Apostles for a reason, one for each of the 12 tribes of Israel.  The 12 tribes of Israel go way back, thousands of year before Jesus Christ.

Who am I debating here, you or the website you posted?  Got anything original?  Got any thoughts and opinions of your own?

So you are saying that half the stuff that we consider as "common" knowledge about Jesus is, um fabricated/stolen. So maybe none of it is true.

Is that original enough for you?

[big L dawg]

The big boys?  LOL

Okay big boy, Jesus was born on December 25th?  Says who?  Not the Bible and not Christians.  That's just a Roman Catholic tradition.

That whole list is such a mess I don't know where to start.  Horus did not die by crucifixion.  Horus did not have 12 disciples.  Horus was not born of a virgin.

Jesus did not have just 12 disciples.  Jesus had many disciples while he was here in this world.  He hand picked 12 Apostles for a reason, one for each of the 12 tribes of Israel.  The 12 tribes of Israel go way back, thousands of year before Jesus Christ.

Who am I debating here, you or the website you posted?  Got anything original?  Got any thoughts and opinions of your own?

another guy who thinks he knows specific details of fables that might or might not have happened thousands and thousands of years ago.

yea gcb may have found certain info he's posting from a website.Is that really any different from getting your info from a book?

Do you celebrate Christmas?

[The Luke]

yea gcb may have found certain info he's posting from a website.Is that really any different from getting your info from a book?

...this is a very important point.

Christian apologists are quick to dismiss the huge amount of Christian TRADITION obviously lifted from paganism as not being based on the canonical Christian LITERATURE.

But they fail to realise that such traditions demonstrate the precedent of Christianity being influenced by paganism... if they borrowed the traditions, why would the literature be wholly uninfluenced and original?


Besides... there is some pretty fucked up shit in non-canonical (Gnostic) gospels; Jesus killing children and marrying Mary Magdalene; Saint Peter killing his own followers, Pontius Pilate surviving his own decapitation, Judas dying on the cross instead of Jesus...  for example.

The four canonical gospels have been rewritten and redacted, sanitising them of the more obvious pagan motifs.


The Luke

[loco]

This thread is running in circles...

It's really very simple, there is not a single original aspect or detail of the Jesus story that cannot be found in a previous religion.

If the detail is NOT obvious in another Mystery Religion solar deity (ie: plagiarised word for word); then a direct parallel will be found in the Horus story; if the analagous detail in the Horus story differs too much for your liking... then an exact copy of every single detail of the Jesus story can be found in the story of the Kashmiri wise-man/messiah Issa (except for the bodily ascension into heaven; but that's a common pagan motif).

You guys keep harping on about the Sermon on the Mount and execution via Roman-style crucifixion (as if the other manners of crucifixion are so vastly different as to make Jesus wholly original). But what about Issa?

Issa gave the same "Sermon on the Mount" that Jesus gave, at the same time, in the same place.

Issa was crucified by the Romans under Pilate, in Jerusalem circa 33 AD.

Issa died and resurrected.

The only difference between Issa and Jesus is what happens after the resurrection... Jesus ascends bodily into heaven, Issa retires to Kashmir where he dies at a ripe old age.

Issa even claimed TO BE the person known to the Christians as Jesus, and he made this claim during his lifetime... long before the Christian gospels were written/plagiarised/fabricated.


One of the twelve disciples (think it was Thomas) even met Issa at a wedding in Kashmir circa 50 AD and recognised him as Jesus... even recording it in his gospel.



So there you go... copied from a Mystery Religion; based on Horus; or actually Issa.

Not one single original detail.


The Luke

You are the one going in circles.  McWay and I have already shown you that none of these are true.

You don't provide your sources because you don't have any.  You just copy and paste from other websites and make stuff up as you go.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where Esus died by crucifixion and where the Sermon on the Mount was copied from Hinduism.

[loco]

So you are saying that half the stuff that we consider as "common" knowledge about Jesus is, um fabricated/stolen. So maybe none of it is true.

Is that original enough for you?

No.  I'm saying that half the stuff on that website you posted is fabricated about Jesus and yes, about Horus too.  They modify the stories to make them look more similar when in reality they are far from it.

And if anybody stole anything from anybody, it was other religions from Christianity in the first century.  They could not compete with Christianity's rapid growth even in the mist of persecution.  So they tried to mimic Christianity to keep/attract followers.

[loco]

another guy who thinks he knows specific details of fables that might or might not have happened thousands and thousands of years ago.

yea gcb may have found certain info he's posting from a website.Is that really any different from getting your info from a book?

Do you celebrate Christmas?

The Bible does not say that Jesus Christ was born on December 25th.  Scholars, both Christian and secular agree that it's very unlikely that Jesus Christ was born on December 25th.  Whether or not a person celebrates Christmas on December 25th, it does not follow that such person believes that Jesus Christ was born on December 25th.

[MCWAY]

No.  I'm saying that half the stuff on that website you posted is fabricated about Jesus and yes, about Horus too.  They modify the stories to make them look more similar when in reality they are far from it.

And if anybody stole anything from anybody, it was other religions from Christianity in the first century.  They could not compete with Christianity's rapid growth even in the mist of persecution.  So they tried to mimic Christianity to keep/attract followers.

A prime example of that is the "Day of Joy" ceremony (started around 4th century AD) by the Cybele-Attis cult.

Another example (albeit not lifted from Chrstianity) involved followers of Attis, borrowing from the Mithras religion and castrating bulls, INSTEAD OF THEMSELVES, to mimic their beloved deity.

[The Luke]

You are the one going in circles.  McWay and I have already shown you that none of these are true.

...McWay's only response to the whole issue of Issa is simply to dismiss him off-hand. An exact duplicate of Jesus in every single regard, but the refutation is simply putting your fingers in your ears? How convenient.

That doesn't constitute a proper argument. Instead it demonstrates that McWay couldn't find a pre-typed disingenuous apologist argument supposedly refuting Issa to sample from.

I won't be posting any links because you guys aren't allowed to read anything that doesn't come from Jeebus-freak websites... so what's the point?

Do your own research.  

The Bible does not say that Jesus Christ was born on December 25th.  Scholars, both Christian and secular agree that it's very unlikely that Jesus Christ was born on December 25th.  Whether or not a person celebrates Christmas on December 25th, it does not follow that such person believes that Jesus Christ was born on December 25th.

...the fact Christians celebrate Christmas on the first day a solar measurement shows a lengthening of the day after the mid-winter solstice clearly demonstrates cross-fertilisation between Christianity and paganism.


The Luke