Is there anything original in the Jesus story?

[Deicide]

We could always talk about the contradictions in the date of birth...

[loco]

Loco,


Question for you...

Can you see the word "indirectly" in the following post?
...if you can, then just how do you expect me to quote the chapter and verse that DOESN'T overtly mention the 25th of December?


For the record, as I already explained, the "bright star"; "three kings" or "three magi"; a "cave" or "stable"; a "virgin"; the constellation Virgo ("Beth-le-hem" in Hebrew) are ALL common astrological allegories that denote the 25th of December dawn "birth" of the new sun.

The gospel stories conform to this blueprint.


The Luke

I understand Luke.  You are interpreting the Bible for us, just like the Roman Catholic Church does for Roman Catholics.     

[MCWAY]

Loco,


Question for you...

Can you see the word "indirectly" in the following post?
...if you can, then just how do you expect me to quote the chapter and verse that DOESN'T overtly mention the 25th of December?


For the record, as I already explained, the "bright star"; "three kings" or "three magi"; a "cave" or "stable"; a "virgin"; the constellation Virgo ("Beth-le-hem" in Hebrew) are ALL common astrological allegories that denote the 25th of December dawn "birth" of the new sun.

The gospel stories conform to this blueprint.


The Luke

Try that again!!! All of your allegories have been shown to be inconclusive, at best, and incorrect, at worst.

Does Scripture hold that the “three kings” find Jesus at His birth? NO!

Are these “three kings” actually “kings”? NO!

Is the word "cave" mentioned in the account of Jesus? NO!

Do they find Jesus in a "cave" or "stall"? NO! (Matt. 2:11, And when they had come into the HOUSE, they saw the young Child with Mary, His mother, and fell down and worshipped Him.)

Does it say that there are exactly three of them in Scripture? NO! (The number is unknown from the texts. Eastern and Western traditions hold the number of “Magi” as anywhere from two to twelve, with Western tradition settling on three, because of the three gifts that Jesus received).


In short, an inexact number of Magi find an approximately 2-year-old Jesus in a house, hardly an indication of a Dec. 25 date.


As for this Virgo/Bethlehem thing, the city's name in Hebrew means "House-of-Bread". Virgo is said to be a goddess holding a sheaf of wheat. To claim that Bethlehem was named, because of that, is a major stretch. BTW, in Arabic, Bethlehem means "house of meat"; so why isn't Virgo toting livestock? I guess the Arabs didn't get the memo.

Bethlehem was and is a city about 5 miles from Jerusalem, which has existed since the days of the OT. For example, Naomi returns to Bethlehem with Ruth to find shelter and to find Ruth a new husband (redeemer), from her family, since Naomi's husband and sons died in war (see Ruth 1:22). The city existed for CENTURIES and was not fabricated to fit some astrological "blueprint".

In fact, Ruth is the grandmother (or great-grandmother) of King David, who came to power in Israel between 1000 and 900 B.C., almost a MILLENIUM before Jesus was even born.

[The Luke]

Come on guys... give it up.

The Luke

[MCWAY]

Come on guys... give it up.

The Luke

You want this one, Loco?

[loco]

You want this one, Loco?

I can't see what he posted.  Whatever it is, it's being blocked here at work.  It'll have to wait until I get a chance to look at it at home.

[MCWAY]

I can't see what he posted.  Whatever it is, it's being blocked here at work.  It'll have to wait until I get a chance to look at it at home.

You, too!?

No biggie!!!

Luke's claims have been supremely flimsy to this point. I doubt these videos buck the trend.

Back to this Bethlehem thing, the OT has at least a dozen verses that mention the city of Bethlehem, most of which can be found in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books), written over a millennium before the birth of Christ.

And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which [is] Bethlehem. 
Gen 48:7 And as for me, when I came from Padan, Rachel died by me in the land of Canaan in the way, when yet [there was] but a little way to come unto Ephrath: and I buried her there in the way of Ephrath; the same [is] Bethlehem. 
Jos 19:15 And Kattath, and Nahallal, and Shimron, and Idalah, and Bethlehem: twelve cities with their villages. 
Jdg 12:8 And after him Ibzan of Bethlehem judged Israel. 
Jdg 12:10 Then died Ibzan, and was buried at Bethlehem. 
Rth 1:19 So they two went until they came to Bethlehem. And it came to pass, when they were come to Bethlehem, that all the city was moved about them, and they said, [Is] this Naomi? 
Rth 1:22 So Naomi returned, and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter in law, with her, which returned out of the country of Moab: and they came to Bethlehem in the beginning of barley harvest. 
Rth 2:4 And, behold, Boaz came from Bethlehem, and said unto the reapers, The LORD [be] with you. And they answered him, The LORD bless thee. 
Rth 4:11 And all the people that [were] in the gate, and the elders, said, [We are] witnesses. The LORD make the woman that is come into thine house like Rachel and like Leah, which two did build the house of Israel: and do thou worthily in Ephratah, and be famous in Bethlehem: 
1Sa 16:4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Bethlehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably? 
1Sa 17:15 But David went and returned from Saul to feed his father's sheep at Bethlehem. 
1Sa 20:6 If thy father at all miss me, then say, David earnestly asked [leave] of me that he might run to Bethlehem his city: for [there is] a yearly sacrifice there for all the family. 
1Sa 20:28 And Jonathan answered Saul, David earnestly asked [leave] of me [to go] to Bethlehem: 
2Sa 2:32 And they took up Asahel, and buried him in the sepulchre of his father, which [was in] Bethlehem. And Joab and his men went all night, and they came to Hebron at break of day. 
2Sa 23:14 And David [was] then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines [was] then [in] Bethlehem. 
2Sa 23:15 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which [is] by the gate! 
2Sa 23:16 And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that [was] by the gate, and took [it], and brought [it] to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the LORD. 
2Sa 23:24 Asahel the brother of Joab [was] one of the thirty; Elhanan the son of Dodo of Bethlehem, 
1Ch 11:16 And David [was] then in the hold, and the Philistines' garrison [was] then at Bethlehem. 
1Ch 11:17 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, that [is] at the gate! 
1Ch 11:18 And the three brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that [was] by the gate, and took [it], and brought [it] to David: but David would not drink [of] it, but poured it out to the LORD, 
1Ch 11:26 Also the valiant men of the armies [were], Asahel the brother of Joab, Elhanan the son of Dodo of Bethlehem, 

And that's just the short list (from Blueletterbible.org)! So, the idea that the town was conveniently fabricated to correspond to some astrological stuff (Virgo), and thus making Jesus Christ a product of some "mystery religion" is quite ridiculous. Not to mention what I said earlier about there being:

-   No “three kings” (they’re simply “Magi”, wise men)
-   No “cave” (He’s found in a house)
-   No “three” wise men finding Jesus at birth (He’s about two, when they show up, exact number unknown)

[big L dawg]

You, too!?

No biggie!!!

Luke's claims have been supremely flimsy to this point. I doubt these videos buck the trend.

Back to this Bethlehem thing, the OT has at least a dozen verses that mention the city of Bethlehem, most of which can be found in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books), written over a millennium before the birth of Christ.

And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which [is] Bethlehem. 
Gen 48:7 And as for me, when I came from Padan, Rachel died by me in the land of Canaan in the way, when yet [there was] but a little way to come unto Ephrath: and I buried her there in the way of Ephrath; the same [is] Bethlehem. 
Jos 19:15 And Kattath, and Nahallal, and Shimron, and Idalah, and Bethlehem: twelve cities with their villages. 
Jdg 12:8 And after him Ibzan of Bethlehem judged Israel. 
Jdg 12:10 Then died Ibzan, and was buried at Bethlehem. 
Rth 1:19 So they two went until they came to Bethlehem. And it came to pass, when they were come to Bethlehem, that all the city was moved about them, and they said, [Is] this Naomi? 
Rth 1:22 So Naomi returned, and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter in law, with her, which returned out of the country of Moab: and they came to Bethlehem in the beginning of barley harvest. 
Rth 2:4 And, behold, Boaz came from Bethlehem, and said unto the reapers, The LORD [be] with you. And they answered him, The LORD bless thee. 
Rth 4:11 And all the people that [were] in the gate, and the elders, said, [We are] witnesses. The LORD make the woman that is come into thine house like Rachel and like Leah, which two did build the house of Israel: and do thou worthily in Ephratah, and be famous in Bethlehem: 
1Sa 16:4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Bethlehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably? 
1Sa 17:15 But David went and returned from Saul to feed his father's sheep at Bethlehem. 
1Sa 20:6 If thy father at all miss me, then say, David earnestly asked [leave] of me that he might run to Bethlehem his city: for [there is] a yearly sacrifice there for all the family. 
1Sa 20:28 And Jonathan answered Saul, David earnestly asked [leave] of me [to go] to Bethlehem: 
2Sa 2:32 And they took up Asahel, and buried him in the sepulchre of his father, which [was in] Bethlehem. And Joab and his men went all night, and they came to Hebron at break of day. 
2Sa 23:14 And David [was] then in an hold, and the garrison of the Philistines [was] then [in] Bethlehem. 
2Sa 23:15 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, which [is] by the gate! 
2Sa 23:16 And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that [was] by the gate, and took [it], and brought [it] to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the LORD. 
2Sa 23:24 Asahel the brother of Joab [was] one of the thirty; Elhanan the son of Dodo of Bethlehem, 
1Ch 11:16 And David [was] then in the hold, and the Philistines' garrison [was] then at Bethlehem. 
1Ch 11:17 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, that [is] at the gate! 
1Ch 11:18 And the three brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that [was] by the gate, and took [it], and brought [it] to David: but David would not drink [of] it, but poured it out to the LORD, 
1Ch 11:26 Also the valiant men of the armies [were], Asahel the brother of Joab, Elhanan the son of Dodo of Bethlehem, 

And that's just the short list (from Blueletterbible.org)! So, the idea that the town was conveniently fabricated to correspond to some astrological stuff (Virgo), and thus making Jesus Christ a product of some "mystery religion" is quite ridiculous. Not to mention what I said earlier about there being:

-   No “three kings” (they’re simply “Magi”, wise men)
-   No “cave” (He’s found in a house)
-   No “three” wise men finding Jesus at birth (He’s about two, when they show up, exact number unknown)

you doubt these videos buck the treand?so your saying you didn't bother to watch them and yet you judge the content.very typical of christians I must say.

[MCWAY]

you doubt these videos buck the treand?so your saying you didn't bother to watch them and yet you judge the content.very typical of christians I must say.

I can't judge the content because (as you apparently missed), like Loco, I'm using my computer at work, which blocks YouTube broadcasts.

If Luke had the specific references to back any of his claims, he would have posted them long before now. Since he hasn't, combined with his feeble claims and gross misstatements about the figures from which Jesus Christ was supposedly crafted, I wouldn't be my house that these videos contain any that he hasn't spewed beforehand.

My guess is he's trying to cover for that blunder of his, regarding the Bible's "indirect" statement of Jesus' birth date being Dec. 25.

[The Luke]

you doubt these videos buck the treand?so your saying you didn't bother to watch them and yet you judge the content.very typical of christians I must say.

The Luke: 4
Christianity: nil


The Luke

[loco]

Millenium plus of Christian based antisemitism...

I won't deny that the Roman Catholic Church, and even the reformer Martin Luther to an extent, contributed to much Antisemitism in their time.  But Antisemitism had already been around for many centuries before Christianity.  So stop blaming Christianity for all your problems.

[loco]

The Luke: 4
Christianity: nil


The Luke

That's right.  The Luke has lost 4.  Christianity has lost nil.   

[MCWAY]

That's right.  The Luke has lost 4.  Christianity has lost nil.   

Though it lists some of the points I’ve already made, here a link to a site that addresses these claims of Luke and gives the reasons why they fall flat.



Dying and Rising Gods?


The assertion made by skeptics is that the story of Jesus found in the New Testament is patterned after the alleged "dying and rising gods" of antiquity that existed long before Christianity. This view became popular among scholars during the so-called "history of religions" school at the turn of the 20th century. The category of "dying and rising gods," along with the pattern of its mythic and ritual associations, received its earliest full formulation in the influential work of James G. Frazer The Golden Bough (1st edition 1890 in two volumes, 2nd edition 1900 in three volumes, 3rd edition in 12 volumes, 1906-1915, with an abridged one-volume edition published in 1922). This theme was repeated by other scholars of mythology such as Joseph Campbell who edited Pagan and Christian Mysteries (1955), and his more famous The Hero with a Thousand Faces (originally 1949), whose views were made popular through a 1988 PBS series "The Power of Myth" interviews with Bill Moyers. However, on the "dying and rising gods" motif the Encyclopedia of Religion (1987) concludes:

"The category of dying and rising gods, once a major topic of scholarly investigation, must now be understood to have been largely a misnomer based on imaginative reconstructions and exceedingly late or highly ambiguous texts....In most cases, the decipherment and interpretation of texts in the language native to the deity's cult has led to questions as to the applicability of the category. The majority of evidence for Near Eastern dying and rising deities occurs in Greek and Latin texts of late antiquity, usually post-Christian in date." ("Dying and Rising Gods", volume 4, pages 521, 522 article by Jonathan Z. Smith, from The Encyclopedia of Religion, edited by Mircea Eliade, emphasis added)

Smith is emphatic: "Some of these divine figures simply disappear, some disappear only to return again in the near or distant future; some disappear and reappear with monotonous frequency. All the deities that have been identified as belonging to the class of dying and rising deities can be subsumed under the two larger classes of disappearing deities or dying deities. In the first case, the deities return but have not died; in the second case, the gods die but do not return. There is no unambiguous instance in the history of religions of a dying and rising deity." (volume 4, page 521-522, emphasis added)

Boyd/Eddy state in The Jesus Legend: "While the claim that aspects of the Christian view of Jesus parallel, even are indebted to, ancient pagan legends and myths has a long history, it gained prominence with the birth of the history of religions school (Religionsgeschichtliche Schule) in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries....The history of religions school was extremely popular in academic circles for several decades, but owing to trenchant critiques by such scholars as Samuel Cheetham, H.A.A. Kennedy, J. Gresham Machen, A.D. Nock, Bruce Metzger, and Gunter Wagner, it eventually fell out of fashion." (The Jesus Legend: A Case for the Historical Reliability of the Synoptic Jesus Tradition [Baker Academic, 2007], pages 134,136).

Although the category was largely abandoned by most reputable scholars and historians by the mid-20th century, there are exceptions. Tryggve N. D. Mettinger of Lund University in Sweden, wrote a recent (2001) scholarly critique challenging the modern consensus and attempts to "resurrect" the dying and rising theme. He nonetheless admits:

"There is now what amounts to a scholarly consensus against the appropriateness of the concept [of dying and rising gods]. Those who still think differently are looked upon as residual members of an almost extinct species....The situation during the last half of the century was thus one when it seemed fairly clear that there were no ideas of resurrection connected with Dumuzi / Tammuz, and that the ideas of a resurrection in connection with Adonis are very late. The references to a resurrection of Adonis have been dated mainly to the Christian Era....Frazer's category was broad and all encompassing. To Frazer, Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis, and Attis were all deities of the same basic type, manifesting the yearly decay and revival of life. He explicitly identified Tammuz and Adonis. The category of dying and rising deities as propagated by Frazer can no longer be upheld." (T.N.D. Mettinger, The Riddle of Resurrection: "Dying and Rising Gods" in the Ancient Near East [2001], page 7, 40, 41)

The category is still revived among the hyper-skeptical and "freethought" community (sometimes in the reckless non-scholarly form of Kersey Graves, sometimes in the revised James G. Frazer The Golden Bough form) as a supposed valid argument against historical Christianity. Evangelical author Ronald Nash has a book-length reply to these claims titled The Gospel and The Greeks: Did the New Testament Borrow from Pagan Thought? (P & R, 1992, 2003 2nd edition). Nash examines in detail Hellenistic philosophy, the mystery religions, and Gnosticism and their relationship to early Christianity. He concludes:

"Was first-century Christianity a syncretistic religion? Was early Christianity a synthesis of ideas and practices borrowed from different sources, some of them pagan? To the extent that key words like dependence, influence, accommodation, and borrowed are understood in a strong sense, my answer to this question will be an unequivocal no." (Ronald Nash, page 10)

After this, sixteen figures, from whom Jesus was supposedly crafted are listed. Here's an example.......

Attis (and Cybele)

Cybele is a goddess, probably of Oriental origin, known in the Greek world from approximately the seventh century BC. She became known in Rome as Magna Mater ("great mother of the gods") when her cult was imported to the city at the end of the third century BC. She is also known under variants Cybebe, Cybelis, and at Locri in Italy, Cybala. Cybele was adopted as goddess by the Phrygians who established her central cult in Pessinus. From Phrygia the cult probably passed to Sardis, capital of the kingdom of Lydia, and to Hellenic cities of Asia Minor and Europe. In several places, the cult of Cybele was combined with that of Attis (sometimes spelled Attys or Atys). In the picture (right), Cybele is depicted next to her lover Attis. She holds a tympanum and a staff. Next to her is her sacred animal the lion. The fact that Attis is shown as equal in size to Cybele suggests that in this case he was being worshipped as a god in his own right. Usually, humans appear smaller than gods in such reliefs (c. 230 BC, discovered in a Greek city in Italy, now in Venice Museo Archeologico).

From a distinction originally made by Hugo Hepding (1903), there is a "Lydian" version of the Attis myth that is marked by his killing by a boar; and a "Phrygian" version that ends with his castration and death. In the latter version, the sources in chronological order are Ovid, Pausanias, and Arnobius. In the account by Ovid, Attis is a beautiful Phrygian youth who consecrates himself to Cybele but then betrays her with the tree-nymph Sagaritis who dies from blows inflicted on her tree by the goddess. Attis is driven mad and finally emasculates himself. In one variation he is transformed into a pine-tree (Ovid in Metamorph X vv. 103-105); in another he is killed by a pine tree (Ibis, vv. 505-506, see Lancellotti, page 2, note 4). In the Arnobius version (Adv nat V, 5-7), Attis castrates himself under a pine tree. In no sense is this a death by "crucifixion" on a pine-tree. Attis' death is from loss of blood by his own castration.

In this longer Arnobius version, Attis' mother is Nana, the daughter of King Sangarius. She became pregnant and conceived Attis from a pomegranate fruit produced from the blood of Agdistis the fierce hunter, after an attempt by Liber to kill him. Endowed with extraordinary beauty, Attis became the favorite of Cybele along with Agdistis, both who were born from a huge rock called "Agdos." Attis dies from castration and the longer story ends like this:

"The Mother of the gods also shed bitter tears from which an almond tree sprang up, and then she took the sacred pine-tree, under which Attis had emasculated himself, into her den and joined the funeral laments of Agdistis, smiting her breasts and walking around the trunk of the tree. Agdistis begged Jupiter [or Zeus] to bring Attis back to life (revivisceret), but that was not permitted. Instead the god agreed that the body of Attis should not putrefy, that his hair should always grow and that his little finger should move for eternity. Satisfied with these favours, Agdistis consecrated the dead man's body to Pessinous and honoured him with yearly ceremonies and priestly services." (Lancellotti, page 4-5)

The complex mythology of Attis is irrelevant to the question of dying and rising deities. In the Phrygian version, Attis is killed by castration; in the Lydian version, he is killed by a boar. In neither case is there any question of his returning to life. Two late, post-Christian theological reflections on the myth hint at rebirth: the allegory in Naassene Sermon and the "euhemerist" account in Firmacus Maternus (third book of De errore profanarum religionum from the fourth century AD), in which a pretended resurrection is mentioned, although it is doubtful this ever played any part in the actual cult.

The attempts in the earlier scholarly literature to identify Attis as a "dying and rising deity" depend not on the mythology but rather on the ritual of the five-day festival of Cybele on March 22-27. Some scholars saw the "Day of Blood" (March 24) and the "Day of Joy" (March 25) as an analogy of the Christian relationship between Good Friday to Easter Sunday, and reasoned that if there was "mourning" on the first day, the object of the "joy" on the following day must be Attis' "resurrection."  But there is no evidence this is the case. The Day of Joy is a late addition to what was once a three-day ritual in which the Day of Blood was followed by a purificatory ritual and the return of the statue of the goddess to the temple. The Day of Joy in the cult celebrated Cybele, not Attis.

(Note: In this festival, Attis worshippers chopped down a tree and brought it to the temple. Then they put an effigy of Attis on it and mourned. This is, no doubt, where Luke keeps getting his spiel of Attis being "crucified". But all the version of the Attis cult have him dying, via self-castration; priests of Attis hacked off their own nuts to emulate their gods.)

The sole text that connects the Day of Joy with Attis is a fifth-century AD biography of Isidore the Dialectician by the Neoplatonic philosopher Damascius who reports that Isidore once had a dream in which he was Attis and the Day of Joy was celebrated in his honor!

The ritual of the taurobolium (bull slaying) came to be associated with this cult at least from the second century AD and was frequently performed as an explicit homage to the emperor. At least in the fourth century AD the taurobolium was a kind of "baptism" performed with the blood of a sacrificed bull and described as such about 400 AD by Prudentius in his Peristephanon (10.1006-1050).

Neither myth nor ritual offers any warrant for classifying Attis as a dying and rising deity. There are some scholars who even question the "divine nature" of the original Phrygian Attis until he was turned into a "god" much later when imported in Greece and Rome (Lancellotti, page 10-11).

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/JesusEvidenceCrucifiedSaviors.htm#Attis

[The Luke]

Back to this Bethlehem thing, the OT has at least a dozen verses that mention the city of Bethlehem, most of which can be found in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books), written over a millennium before the birth of Christ.

...I was under the impression that there is absolutely NO archaeological evidence to support the existence of any town/city/village anywhere near Jerusalem or Israel BEFORE the fourth century AD.

Bethlehem is the Hebrew name for the constellation Virgo (the virgin): "Bethlehem" translates literally as "The house of Bread" (which is an alternate name for the Virgo constellation in the Hebrew/Kabbalah tradition).

Bethlehem has sometimes been referred to by archaeologists as "the town that faith built" in light of it being a pilgrimage centre built from the need to find an apparently fictitious/mythical place. It's as if someone were to open an official "Harry Potter's House" three centuries from now, after Potterism became a major religion.


The Luke

[Necrosis]

Come on guys... give it up.

The Luke

utter destruction of christianity right here. Brutal parellels.

[The Luke]

utter destruction of christianity right here. Brutal parellels.

The Luke: 6
Christianity: nil



The Luke

[big L dawg]

I can't judge the content because (as you apparently missed), like Loco, I'm using my computer at work, which blocks YouTube broadcasts.

If Luke had the specific references to back any of his claims, he would have posted them long before now. Since he hasn't, combined with his feeble claims and gross misstatements about the figures from which Jesus Christ was supposedly crafted, I wouldn't be my house that these videos contain any that he hasn't spewed beforehand.

My guess is he's trying to cover for that blunder of his, regarding the Bible's "indirect" statement of Jesus' birth date being Dec. 25.

yea but you still dismissed what he posted before reviewing the content.and now you have had time to view it.So....what say you?

[The Luke]

yea but you still dismissed what he posted before reviewing the content.and now you have had time to view it.So....what say you?

The Luke: 7
Christianity: nil


The Luke

[Deicide]

The Luke: 7
Christianity: nil


The Luke

An Luke...

[The Luke]

An Luke...

...as Ghaeilge? An bhfuil cupla focal agat?


The Luke

[OzmO]

Or it looks like:


Lions 7
Christians 0
 

Who wins in the end?   

[MCWAY]

yea but you still dismissed what he posted before reviewing the content.and now you have had time to view it.So....what say you?

It's exactly as I thought it would be.......utter gibberish.

I'll start with the first video. Once again, the obsession with Dec. 25 continues. I don't know what part of "The Gospels DO NOT CLAIM Jesus was born Dec. 25, or on any date in the Hebrew calendar, corresponding to Dec. 25" you fail to grasp, but it is well known that the celebration of Christ's birth was CHOSEN BY THE ROMAN EMPIRE and/or THE CATHOLIC CHURCH to be on that date.


And, much like Luke, the narrator of video on repeatedly harps on the "three kings" thing. Apparently, he suffers from the same lack of simple reading comprehension Luke does, as (once again) the Gospel give no mention to "three kings", only to wise men (magi) who find where Jesus is located, with the exact number of them UNKNOWN.

This, of course, doesn't take into consideration that the shepherds found Jesus, immediately after His birth, WITHOUT THE USE OF A STAR.

It appears that Luke is a bit late. The link I posted deals with the very videos that Luke posted. In fact, the following link gives the transcript of this movie (Zeitgeist, a movie that happens to have someone's wacky theory about the destruction of the Twin Towers being an "inside job"....but that's another story for another time).

Notice that the guy made NO references to the texts, regarding Horus that says he was born Dec. 25.
As has been pointed out several times, Horus was NOT born of a virgin. His mama, Isis, has sex (in birdie form) with Osiris in the underworld, producing Horus.


Let's look at the wacky claims, regarding Horus (The video claims are BOLDED;the rebuttals to the video claims are in GREEN )

This is Horus. He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC.


Horus is not (simply) the sun god, although that became one of his forms. Horus in ancient Egypt was the falcon god whose name means the high, far-off, or distant one. Re (or Ra) was the sun god who came to be identified with the mid-day (or noon) sun. Horus was also the sky god, whose good or sound eye was the sun, and injured eye the moon.

He is the sun, anthropomorphized, and his life is a series of allegorical myths involving the sun's movement in the sky.


He is not the sun, but came to be identified with the position of the rising sun (the sun rises in the east), in such Greek forms as Harakhti = "Horus of the horizon"; and Harmachis (-khis) = "Horus in the horizon." Later he was associated with the sun-god Re and known as Re-Harakhti. Atum was the god of the setting sun.

From the ancient hieroglyphics in Egypt, we know much about this solar messiah. For instance, Horus, being the sun, or the light, had an enemy known as Set and Set was the personification of the darkness or night.

It is hieroglyphs, not hieroglyphics. Hieroglyphic is an adjective (e.g. hieroglyphic writings). The term "messiah" comes from the Hebrew Moshiach for "Anointed One." It is a Judaeo-Christian concept; it does not go back to ancient Egypt. Set (or Seth) was Horus' brother, or in other versions, his uncle. In one tradition of the Egyptian myth, Seth was Horus' rival (and usurper of Egypt's throne), in others, his balance (a bipolar, balanced embodiment of kingship). As mentioned above: since the beginning of the 20th century in Egyptological research, much debate has ensued over whether the struggle between Horus and Seth was primarily historical/geo-political, or cosmic/symbolic. When the full Osiris complex became visible, Seth appears as the murderer of Osiris and would-be killer of the child Horus.



And, metaphorically speaking, every morning Horus would win the battle against Set - while in the evening, Set would conquer Horus and send him into the underworld. It is important to note that "dark vs. light" or "good vs. evil" is one of the most ubiquitous mythological dualities ever known and is still expressed on many levels to this day.



Horus was never sent to the underworld. That was Osiris who was killed and became lord of the underworld (i.e. the dead), while Horus was king of the living. In one version of the myth, Horus battles with Seth over an 80 year period, the earth-god Geb in a judgment awards the whole inheritance of Egypt to Horus, and Horus then becomes ruler of Egypt. From then on, the dead Egyptian king becomes an "Osiris", and his successor the living king is a "Horus." That is the primary meaning of the Horus-Seth battle myth. In the Egyptian Coffin Texts (Spell 148, quoted above), Horus appears as a falcon who soars up into the sky beyond the flight of the original bird-soul, beyond the stars and all the divinities of olden time whose souls inhabit the constellations. In so doing he brings back light and the assurance of a new day, thus subduing Seth, who personifies the terrors of darkness and death.



Broadly speaking, the story of Horus is as follows: Horus was born on December 25th.



Wrong. The Persian/Roman god Mithras came to be seen as born on that date, as did Jesus later in the early Church. The December 25th date is not found in the Gospels or the New Testament. It was a later adoption by the Catholic Church: "In the first half of the fourth century AD the worship of the Sol Invictus was the last great pagan cult the Church had to conquer, and it did so in part with the establishment of Christmas...At the head of the Deposition Martyrum of the so-called Roman Chronograph of 354 AD (the Philocalian Calendar) there is listed the natus Christus in Betleem Judaeae ('the birth of Christ in Bethlehem of Judea') as being celebrated on December 25. The Deposition was originally composed in 336 AD, so Christmas dates back at least that far." (See "Santa or Satan: Reply to a Funny Fundy")

The date of the birth of Horus according to some online sources is during the Egyptian month of Khoiak (which corresponds to our November month). The Egyptian calendar had three seasons, each four months and 30 days/month. The season of Akhet is months (in Greek) Thot, Phaophi, Athyr, Khoiak; the season of Peret (or Winter) is months (in Greek) Tybi, Mekhir, Phamenoth, Pharmouthi; the season of Chemou (or Summer) is months (in Greek) Pakhon, Payni, Epiph, Mesorê. See online sources: Egyptian Festival Calender ; Egyptian calendar months and seasons ; Grand Festivals ; Festival Rituals. We also know where Horus was supposedly born (at Khemmis or Chemmis in the Nile Delta of northern Upper Egypt).

of the virgin Isis-Meri.



Wrong again. Her name was simply Isis (in Greek). Her true Egyptian name is transliterated simply A-s-e-t or 3st (all woman names in Egyptian end with the "t"). Her name (Aset) means "seat" or "throne" (Oxford Encyclopedia, vol 2, "Isis" p. 188) and "the goddess's name is written in hieroglyphs with a sign that represents a throne, indicating the crucial role that she plays in the transmission of the kingship of Egypt" (Hart, Routledge Dictionary, "Isis" p. 80).


And she definitely was not a virgin when she conceived Horus with the revivified Osiris, if these words mean anything: "[Osiris was] revived enough to have an erection and impregnate his wife" (Lesko, p. 162); "After having sexual intercourse..." (Dunand / Zivie-Coche, p. 39); "revivified the sexual member of Osiris and became pregnant by him" (Richard Wilkinson, p. 146); "revive the sexual powers of Osiris" (Pinch, p. 80).

A virgin birth, or more properly, a virginal conception, is by definition non-sexual.

His birth was accompanied by a star in the east

No evidence any stars are mentioned in the birth of Horus.

which in turn, three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior

There are no "three kings" in the birth of Horus, and there are no "three kings" in the Bible either. Read Matthew 2 for yourself:

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, saying, 'Where is he that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.'" (Matthew 2:1-2 KJV)

They are not called "kings" but "wise men" -- and they are not three in number, we don't know how many there were. Three gifts are later mentioned (gold, frankincense, myrrh) in verse 11, and these were equated with the wise men. Perhaps we are thinking of the Christmas carol "We three kings of Orient are...." ? Nice tune and lyrics, but it's always best to cross-check with the biblical text.

At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher

There is a form known as "Horus the Child" but he wasn't a prodigal teacher. He was kept hidden away by his mother, until he was ready to be ruler of Egypt. The young god was hidden in the papyrus marshes, hence his epithet Har-hery-wadj or "Horus who is upon his papyrus plants."

and at the age of 30 he was baptized by a figure known as Anup and thus began his ministry

No evidence of any baptism for Horus, and no evidence of any "ministry" of Horus. Anubis (or Anup or Anpu) means Royal Child, and is usually depicted as jackal-headed or a wild dog-headed man, or a reclining black jackal. Anubis was the great protector god, guiding the soul through the underworld. He was also the Lord of embalming, and through this is connected with incense and perfumery. No baptism here. (See The Jackal Headed God or Egyptian Animal Gods).

Horus had 12 disciples he traveled about with

Horus had NO 12 disciples he traveled with: remember he became ruler of Egypt after a long battle with Seth. Perhaps you could call all the subjects in Egypt his "disciples" (which means followers).

There were technically the "Followers of Horus [son of Isis]" called the Shemsu Heru, mentioned in the Liturgy of Funeral Offerings and purification ceremony. These were a group of beings who were closely connected with Osiris, and having "followed" him in this world they passed after him into the Other World (of the dead), where they became his ministrants and messengers. There were also followers (a different group) of Horus the Elder called the Mesentiu who are "workers in metal" or blacksmiths (see The Liturgy of Funeral Offerings, the fourth ceremony, commentary by Budge).

performing miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water

There are some healing "miracles" or magic associated with Horus, but this is with Horus the Child, not Horus the Elder or his adult forms. In the Late Dynastic cippi objects, Harpokrates (Horus-the-child) acts as an amuletic force warding off dangerous creatures such as crocodiles, serpents, and other noxious animals, etc. "Horus-on-the-Crocodiles" was a common manifestation of the importance of Horus in healing ritual. The healing of Horus from scorpian stings by Isis provided the reason for the production of the cippi of Horus and his role in healing. The power of this healing seems to come from his mother, Isis, who was indeed the "goddess of immense magical power" (Hart, Routledge Dictionary, "Isis" p. 79ff).

Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others

Wrong, no evidence for these names. The "forms" of the Horus-god are precisely what I listed above, under these categories: Horus the Child (healing / magical titles such as "Horus-on-the-Crocodiles"); Horus as son of Isis and Osiris ("pillar of his mother"; "savior of his father"); and Horus as a sun-god ("lord of the sky"; god "of the east"; Horus of / in "the horizon"; and later associated with Re).

After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified, buried for 3 days, and thus, resurrected.

Typhon is also known as Seth, his rival brother (or uncle). Horus was NOT crucified, was NOT buried for 3 days, and thus, was NOT resurrected. Your sources are wrong. In some versions of his battle with Seth, Horus had one or both of his eyes injured, but he was not killed. It was his father Osiris who was killed, dismembered, reconstituted, and revived by Isis, his magical mother.

These attributes of Horus, whether original or not, seem to permeate in many cultures of the world, for many other gods are found to have the same general mythological structure

No, they do not. They are unique to Jesus Christ (crucifixion, burial, bodily resurrection). I have demolished these claims in my long, detailed, documented article "Evidence for Jesus and Parallel Pagan 'Crucified Saviors' Examined."



http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/HORUS.htm#ZEITGEIST

As for videos two and three, little of the claims made there is different than what I've heard before now. So, the refuting of such will be quite easy.

[Deicide]

It's exactly as I thought it would be.......utter gibberish.

I'll start with the first video. Once again, the obsession with Dec. 25 continues. I don't know what part of "The Gospels DO NOT CLAIM Jesus was born Dec. 25, or on any date in the Hebrew calendar, corresponding to Dec. 25" you fail to grasp, but it is well known that the celebration of Christ's birth was CHOSEN BY THE ROMAN EMPIRE and/or THE CATHOLIC CHURCH to be on that date.


And, much like Luke, the narrator of video on repeatedly harps on the "three kings" thing. Apparently, he suffers from the same lack of simple reading comprehension Luke does, as (once again) the Gospel give no mention to "three kings", only to wise men (magi) who find where Jesus is located, with the exact number of them UNKNOWN.

This, of course, doesn't take into consideration that the shepherds found Jesus, immediately after His birth, WITHOUT THE USE OF A STAR.

It appears that Luke is a bit late. The link I posted deals with the very videos that Luke posted. In fact, the following link gives the transcript of this movie (Zeitgeist, a movie that happens to have someone's wacky theory about the destruction of the Twin Towers being an "inside job"....but that's another story for another time).

Notice that the guy made NO references to the texts, regarding Horus that says he was born Dec. 25.
As has been pointed out several times, Horus was NOT born of a virgin. His mama, Isis, has sex (in birdie form) with Osiris in the underworld, producing Horus.


Let's look at the wacky claims, regarding Horus (The video claims are BOLDED;the rebuttals to the video claims are in GREEN )

This is Horus. He is the Sun God of Egypt of around 3000 BC.


Horus is not (simply) the sun god, although that became one of his forms. Horus in ancient Egypt was the falcon god whose name means the high, far-off, or distant one. Re (or Ra) was the sun god who came to be identified with the mid-day (or noon) sun. Horus was also the sky god, whose good or sound eye was the sun, and injured eye the moon.

He is the sun, anthropomorphized, and his life is a series of allegorical myths involving the sun's movement in the sky.


He is not the sun, but came to be identified with the position of the rising sun (the sun rises in the east), in such Greek forms as Harakhti = "Horus of the horizon"; and Harmachis (-khis) = "Horus in the horizon." Later he was associated with the sun-god Re and known as Re-Harakhti. Atum was the god of the setting sun.

From the ancient hieroglyphics in Egypt, we know much about this solar messiah. For instance, Horus, being the sun, or the light, had an enemy known as Set and Set was the personification of the darkness or night.

It is hieroglyphs, not hieroglyphics. Hieroglyphic is an adjective (e.g. hieroglyphic writings). The term "messiah" comes from the Hebrew Moshiach for "Anointed One." It is a Judaeo-Christian concept; it does not go back to ancient Egypt. Set (or Seth) was Horus' brother, or in other versions, his uncle. In one tradition of the Egyptian myth, Seth was Horus' rival (and usurper of Egypt's throne), in others, his balance (a bipolar, balanced embodiment of kingship). As mentioned above: since the beginning of the 20th century in Egyptological research, much debate has ensued over whether the struggle between Horus and Seth was primarily historical/geo-political, or cosmic/symbolic. When the full Osiris complex became visible, Seth appears as the murderer of Osiris and would-be killer of the child Horus.



And, metaphorically speaking, every morning Horus would win the battle against Set - while in the evening, Set would conquer Horus and send him into the underworld. It is important to note that "dark vs. light" or "good vs. evil" is one of the most ubiquitous mythological dualities ever known and is still expressed on many levels to this day.



Horus was never sent to the underworld. That was Osiris who was killed and became lord of the underworld (i.e. the dead), while Horus was king of the living. In one version of the myth, Horus battles with Seth over an 80 year period, the earth-god Geb in a judgment awards the whole inheritance of Egypt to Horus, and Horus then becomes ruler of Egypt. From then on, the dead Egyptian king becomes an "Osiris", and his successor the living king is a "Horus." That is the primary meaning of the Horus-Seth battle myth. In the Egyptian Coffin Texts (Spell 148, quoted above), Horus appears as a falcon who soars up into the sky beyond the flight of the original bird-soul, beyond the stars and all the divinities of olden time whose souls inhabit the constellations. In so doing he brings back light and the assurance of a new day, thus subduing Seth, who personifies the terrors of darkness and death.



Broadly speaking, the story of Horus is as follows: Horus was born on December 25th.



Wrong. The Persian/Roman god Mithras came to be seen as born on that date, as did Jesus later in the early Church. The December 25th date is not found in the Gospels or the New Testament. It was a later adoption by the Catholic Church: "In the first half of the fourth century AD the worship of the Sol Invictus was the last great pagan cult the Church had to conquer, and it did so in part with the establishment of Christmas...At the head of the Deposition Martyrum of the so-called Roman Chronograph of 354 AD (the Philocalian Calendar) there is listed the natus Christus in Betleem Judaeae ('the birth of Christ in Bethlehem of Judea') as being celebrated on December 25. The Deposition was originally composed in 336 AD, so Christmas dates back at least that far." (See "Santa or Satan: Reply to a Funny Fundy")

The date of the birth of Horus according to some online sources is during the Egyptian month of Khoiak (which corresponds to our November month). The Egyptian calendar had three seasons, each four months and 30 days/month. The season of Akhet is months (in Greek) Thot, Phaophi, Athyr, Khoiak; the season of Peret (or Winter) is months (in Greek) Tybi, Mekhir, Phamenoth, Pharmouthi; the season of Chemou (or Summer) is months (in Greek) Pakhon, Payni, Epiph, Mesorê. See online sources: Egyptian Festival Calender ; Egyptian calendar months and seasons ; Grand Festivals ; Festival Rituals. We also know where Horus was supposedly born (at Khemmis or Chemmis in the Nile Delta of northern Upper Egypt).

of the virgin Isis-Meri.



Wrong again. Her name was simply Isis (in Greek). Her true Egyptian name is transliterated simply A-s-e-t or 3st (all woman names in Egyptian end with the "t"). Her name (Aset) means "seat" or "throne" (Oxford Encyclopedia, vol 2, "Isis" p. 188) and "the goddess's name is written in hieroglyphs with a sign that represents a throne, indicating the crucial role that she plays in the transmission of the kingship of Egypt" (Hart, Routledge Dictionary, "Isis" p. 80).


And she definitely was not a virgin when she conceived Horus with the revivified Osiris, if these words mean anything: "[Osiris was] revived enough to have an erection and impregnate his wife" (Lesko, p. 162); "After having sexual intercourse..." (Dunand / Zivie-Coche, p. 39); "revivified the sexual member of Osiris and became pregnant by him" (Richard Wilkinson, p. 146); "revive the sexual powers of Osiris" (Pinch, p. 80).

A virgin birth, or more properly, a virginal conception, is by definition non-sexual.

His birth was accompanied by a star in the east

No evidence any stars are mentioned in the birth of Horus.

which in turn, three kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior

There are no "three kings" in the birth of Horus, and there are no "three kings" in the Bible either. Read Matthew 2 for yourself:

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, saying, 'Where is he that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.'" (Matthew 2:1-2 KJV)

They are not called "kings" but "wise men" -- and they are not three in number, we don't know how many there were. Three gifts are later mentioned (gold, frankincense, myrrh) in verse 11, and these were equated with the wise men. Perhaps we are thinking of the Christmas carol "We three kings of Orient are...." ? Nice tune and lyrics, but it's always best to cross-check with the biblical text.

At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher

There is a form known as "Horus the Child" but he wasn't a prodigal teacher. He was kept hidden away by his mother, until he was ready to be ruler of Egypt. The young god was hidden in the papyrus marshes, hence his epithet Har-hery-wadj or "Horus who is upon his papyrus plants."

and at the age of 30 he was baptized by a figure known as Anup and thus began his ministry

No evidence of any baptism for Horus, and no evidence of any "ministry" of Horus. Anubis (or Anup or Anpu) means Royal Child, and is usually depicted as jackal-headed or a wild dog-headed man, or a reclining black jackal. Anubis was the great protector god, guiding the soul through the underworld. He was also the Lord of embalming, and through this is connected with incense and perfumery. No baptism here. (See The Jackal Headed God or Egyptian Animal Gods).

Horus had 12 disciples he traveled about with

Horus had NO 12 disciples he traveled with: remember he became ruler of Egypt after a long battle with Seth. Perhaps you could call all the subjects in Egypt his "disciples" (which means followers).

There were technically the "Followers of Horus [son of Isis]" called the Shemsu Heru, mentioned in the Liturgy of Funeral Offerings and purification ceremony. These were a group of beings who were closely connected with Osiris, and having "followed" him in this world they passed after him into the Other World (of the dead), where they became his ministrants and messengers. There were also followers (a different group) of Horus the Elder called the Mesentiu who are "workers in metal" or blacksmiths (see The Liturgy of Funeral Offerings, the fourth ceremony, commentary by Budge).

performing miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water

There are some healing "miracles" or magic associated with Horus, but this is with Horus the Child, not Horus the Elder or his adult forms. In the Late Dynastic cippi objects, Harpokrates (Horus-the-child) acts as an amuletic force warding off dangerous creatures such as crocodiles, serpents, and other noxious animals, etc. "Horus-on-the-Crocodiles" was a common manifestation of the importance of Horus in healing ritual. The healing of Horus from scorpian stings by Isis provided the reason for the production of the cippi of Horus and his role in healing. The power of this healing seems to come from his mother, Isis, who was indeed the "goddess of immense magical power" (Hart, Routledge Dictionary, "Isis" p. 79ff).

Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others

Wrong, no evidence for these names. The "forms" of the Horus-god are precisely what I listed above, under these categories: Horus the Child (healing / magical titles such as "Horus-on-the-Crocodiles"); Horus as son of Isis and Osiris ("pillar of his mother"; "savior of his father"); and Horus as a sun-god ("lord of the sky"; god "of the east"; Horus of / in "the horizon"; and later associated with Re).

After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified, buried for 3 days, and thus, resurrected.

Typhon is also known as Seth, his rival brother (or uncle). Horus was NOT crucified, was NOT buried for 3 days, and thus, was NOT resurrected. Your sources are wrong. In some versions of his battle with Seth, Horus had one or both of his eyes injured, but he was not killed. It was his father Osiris who was killed, dismembered, reconstituted, and revived by Isis, his magical mother.

These attributes of Horus, whether original or not, seem to permeate in many cultures of the world, for many other gods are found to have the same general mythological structure

No, they do not. They are unique to Jesus Christ (crucifixion, burial, bodily resurrection). I have demolished these claims in my long, detailed, documented article "Evidence for Jesus and Parallel Pagan 'Crucified Saviors' Examined."



http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/HORUS.htm#ZEITGEIST

As for videos two and three, little of the claims made there is different than what I've heard before now. So, the refuting of such will be quite easy.

Jeez. Yawn. See you got nothing to refute Bob Price with...hehe.

[MCWAY]

Jeez. Yawn. See you got nothing to refute Bob Price with...hehe.

You don't comprehend very well, Deicide, and neither does the guy who came up with those videos.

His claims about Horus are absolutely BOGUS. The refutations to such claims are easy to find, and, unlike Luke, the specific references addressing those claims are given.

For example, where does it state that Horus was killed via crucifixion?

Furthermore, this dude claims tha Horus get sent to the underworld, which, per the account of Horus is INCORRECT. Horus' daddy, Osiris, is in the underworld (you will recall that's where Isis has birdie-sex with him to conceive Horus, which disqualifies his birth as being a "virgin" one). More from the "All About Horus" link!!

Here is some commentary on the "conception of Horus" from various Egyptian scholars:

"...drawings on contemporary funerary papyri show her as a kite hovering above Osiris, who is revived enough to have an erection and impregnate his wife." (Lesko, Great Goddesses of Egypt, p. 162)

"After having sexual intercourse, in the form of a bird, with the dead god she restored to life, she gave birth to a posthumous son, Horus." (Dunand / Zivie-Coche, Gods and Men in Egypt, p. 39)

"Through her magic Isis revivified the sexual member of Osiris and became pregnant by him, eventually giving birth to their child, Horus." (Richard Wilkinson, Complete gods and goddesses of Ancient Egypt, p. 146)

"Isis already knows that she is destined to bear a child who will be king. In order to bring this about, she has to revive the sexual powers of Osiris, just as the Hand Goddess aroused the penis of the creator to create the first life." (Pinch, Handbook of Egyptian Mythology, p. 80)

In short, this was NO "virgin birth" as is clear also from repeated references to Osiris' "seed." A "miraculous birth" perhaps because it involves a dead and then revived husband, but not a virginal conception (sometimes wrongly called an "immaculate conception" -- that has to do in Catholic theology with Mary's conception without Original Sin, not Jesus' conception) nor a virgin birth as contained in the Bible (cf. Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38).





I'll deal with the blunders from the other two videos a bit later. But, suffice it to say that, if this guy ain't got his facts straight in that one, the other two can't be much better.

[MCWAY]

As for the claim that the narrative of Jesus Christ was taken from an Egyptian inscription from Luxor.....

For example, inscribed about 3500 years, on the walls of the Temple of Luxor in Egypt are images of the enunciation, the immaculate conception, the birth, and the adoration of Horus. The images begin with Thaw announcing to the virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus, then Nef the holy ghost impregnating the virgin, and then the virgin birth and the adoration. This is exactly the story of Jesus' miracle conception.


The "enunciation" should be the "Annunciation" (March 25 is the feast day in Catholic liturgical calendars), and "immaculate conception" refers to the Catholic teaching about Mary's conception without Original Sin (December 8 is the feast day), not to a virginal conception. Just to be clear: Mary's own conception and birth from her mother was normal in the biological sense; it was Jesus who was virginally conceived and virgin born (Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38).



Skeptic and historian Richard Carrier makes a couple points about the Egyptian Luxor birth inscription which I will summarize:

- the Luxor inscription does not depict impregnation by a spirit, but involves very real sex
- the woman involved is not Isis (e.g. Horus' mother) but the mythical Queen of Egypt in an archetypal sense

- Panel 4: (often cited as key) describes the god Amun jumping into bed with the human Queen on her wedding night.
 
- Amun's buddy Thoth stands by the bed to watch, and after Amun "does everything he wished with her" -- she and Amun engage in some divine pillow talk
- Amun tells her that she is impregnated and will bear his son, Amenophis (or "Amun is loved [or satisfied]")
- Amun, not Thoth, announces the conception; and Kneph only forms the fetus and the soul and unites them, he does not impregnate the Queen

- Panel 8: the ankh touched to the Queen's nose, does not depict an impregnation since she is already pregnant and "showing"
- Rather, it is the birth that is announced, not the conception; Kneph proceeds to impart the god's soul into the divine fetus using the ankh

- Panel 9: depicts the birth
- the adoration scene only involves important state officials (or perhaps lesser divinities), not kings or "magi"

- the cycle depicted at Luxor does not match up in the same sequence with the Christian narrative: the annunciation follows the conception in the Egyptian cycle (but in the same panel)

- the actual Luxor sequence is conception and annunciation in panel 4, gestation and quickening in panel 8 (also a second speech of assurance), birth in panel 9, and then in panels 9 onward an adoration, and a confirmation

- this type of sequence is found throughout Greek and Roman mythology, so Christians need not have gotten the idea from Egypt

Now, for some of the claims from video 3.

There's the claim that the Hebrews stole the Ten Commandments from the Egyptians' "Negative Confession".....I haven't heard that one in years. Conspicuously absent from the commandments supposedly "taken outright" from the Negative Confession are the first four commandments:

- Thou shalt have no other gods before me
- Thou shalt not make unto thee any grave image.....
- Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.....
- Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.

The other six commamdments cover stealing, lying, murder, and adultery, which a number of cultures have. To say that any culture with such laws yanked them from the Egytians is utterly ridiculous, to say the least.